Why are bike lights universally rubbish?
Discussion
Why is it so difficult for the myriad of manufacturers to make such a simple product work effectively? I'm not even just limiting my comments to the cheap end of the market. At no price point is there a single light that doesn't have at least one glaring flaw.
Let's start with the cheap lights:
* One tiny christmas tree LED that's invisible beyond the range of 6ft - Useful!
* Absurdly expensive batteries - because it makes so much sense to have a 99p light that takes £5 worth of batteries. I don't want to throw my light away and buy another just because the batteries have run flat!
* To make the previous point worse, eats batteries like the cookie monster eats cookies.
* About as waterproof as a woolly jumper. Because, you know, it's never dark and wet at the same time...
* A lovely, easy to press button to switch them on. That way the inside of my bag can be illuminated every time I put them in it and the batteries will be flat every time I take them out (see above)
Okay, so cheap doesn't work, let's spend a little more:
+ Now they actually work in the rain! Okay, well maybe a bit of rain, but better than before
+ And give off some light! Maybe cars will actually see me now (even though I still can't see where I've going...)
+ A few even start using proper batteries
The rest of the faults still apply, but hey, we're getting somewhere. Except:
- Now we've gained 200 different flashing modes that nobody ever needs or uses
- Switching modes relies on hammering the single button repeatedly like you're playing Daly Thompson's decathlon (showing my age there!) until you go one past the one you wanted, then starting again.
- One of the modes that you have to cycle through is "Off". Which is helpful when looking for hi-beam because it's gone really dark.
Okay, more money, less problems? Wrong:
+ A bit more light
+ Probably waterproof
+ No more absurdly priced batteries, because...
- USB rechargeable! That's handy when the one place I DON'T have access to a USB port is when I'm on my bike.
- This wouldn't be so bad if the battery life was not EVEN WORSE. Why does a light with a custom inbuilt battery pack last less time than one of the same power that runs on 2xAAs?
- EVEN MORE FLASHING MODES. Including at least one whose sole purpose seems to be as a defence against epileptics.
Okay, so let's look at the expensive lights
+ Okay, they're bright. I can see where I'm going now
- The battery life gets worse. I know I'm not paying for batteries, but a run time of 3 hours just isn't enough. This isn't an iPhone, I don't want to have to charge it daily.
- None of the other problems are solved
Okay, let's go REALLY expensive
+(?) Even brighter
- Even worse battery. As bad as 1 hour or less in some cases - WTF? That's not useful!
Seriously, All I want is a decent light that runs on commonly available batteries and kicks out enough light for me to see where I'm going. It needs three modes - High, Low and one form of flashing. It should be able to toggle between high and low without going via flashing or off. It should not turn itself on in my bag and should be able to cope with a rainstorm. That's not too much to ask is it?
Let's start with the cheap lights:
* One tiny christmas tree LED that's invisible beyond the range of 6ft - Useful!
* Absurdly expensive batteries - because it makes so much sense to have a 99p light that takes £5 worth of batteries. I don't want to throw my light away and buy another just because the batteries have run flat!
* To make the previous point worse, eats batteries like the cookie monster eats cookies.
* About as waterproof as a woolly jumper. Because, you know, it's never dark and wet at the same time...
* A lovely, easy to press button to switch them on. That way the inside of my bag can be illuminated every time I put them in it and the batteries will be flat every time I take them out (see above)
Okay, so cheap doesn't work, let's spend a little more:
+ Now they actually work in the rain! Okay, well maybe a bit of rain, but better than before
+ And give off some light! Maybe cars will actually see me now (even though I still can't see where I've going...)
+ A few even start using proper batteries
The rest of the faults still apply, but hey, we're getting somewhere. Except:
- Now we've gained 200 different flashing modes that nobody ever needs or uses
- Switching modes relies on hammering the single button repeatedly like you're playing Daly Thompson's decathlon (showing my age there!) until you go one past the one you wanted, then starting again.
- One of the modes that you have to cycle through is "Off". Which is helpful when looking for hi-beam because it's gone really dark.
Okay, more money, less problems? Wrong:
+ A bit more light
+ Probably waterproof
+ No more absurdly priced batteries, because...
- USB rechargeable! That's handy when the one place I DON'T have access to a USB port is when I'm on my bike.
- This wouldn't be so bad if the battery life was not EVEN WORSE. Why does a light with a custom inbuilt battery pack last less time than one of the same power that runs on 2xAAs?
- EVEN MORE FLASHING MODES. Including at least one whose sole purpose seems to be as a defence against epileptics.
Okay, so let's look at the expensive lights
+ Okay, they're bright. I can see where I'm going now
- The battery life gets worse. I know I'm not paying for batteries, but a run time of 3 hours just isn't enough. This isn't an iPhone, I don't want to have to charge it daily.
- None of the other problems are solved
Okay, let's go REALLY expensive
+(?) Even brighter
- Even worse battery. As bad as 1 hour or less in some cases - WTF? That's not useful!
Seriously, All I want is a decent light that runs on commonly available batteries and kicks out enough light for me to see where I'm going. It needs three modes - High, Low and one form of flashing. It should be able to toggle between high and low without going via flashing or off. It should not turn itself on in my bag and should be able to cope with a rainstorm. That's not too much to ask is it?
Closest I've found so far are some of the Cateye lights - I'm running an EL340/Rapid 3 pair at the moment which gets close. Would like a little more power from the front light though
Mr Will said:
a run time of 3 hours just isn't enough. This isn't an iPhone, I don't want to have to charge it daily.
I don't think this is a problem for most people. To get a longer run time you'd need bigger, heavier and more expensive batteries. Since most people don't want this, the manufacturers won't make it.If you need a longer run time then I'd suggest looking at one where the battery module is connected by a plug (think magicshine work like this) so you could buy additional batteries and swap them over when the first set runs out.
Battery tech - you can have really bright lights or you can have really long-lasting lights but you can't have both. I prefer bright and accept I charge them while at work or overnight. Of course brightness without a decent lens is pretty much pointless - so many people seem to chase big lumen figures. I find I can ride a pitch black old railway (tarmac) with 300 lumens no problem, only to be dazzled by 1000+ lumens coming the other way, badly focused and badly directed.
Modes - My Lezyne has 4 modes (IIRC, might be 5), 3/4 brightnesses and 1 flashing.
Waterproof - Again my Lezyne and a colleague's have been 100% waterproof despite all-year-round commuting of 30-40 miles a day (by him, not me
).
Compared to 10/15/20 years ago, bike lights are so much better now.
Modes - My Lezyne has 4 modes (IIRC, might be 5), 3/4 brightnesses and 1 flashing.
Waterproof - Again my Lezyne and a colleague's have been 100% waterproof despite all-year-round commuting of 30-40 miles a day (by him, not me
).Compared to 10/15/20 years ago, bike lights are so much better now.
I've been using a set of Ayup road lights during the winter for the past 4 or so years. I've lost count the number of other cyclists who've asked me what lights they are.
http://www.ayup-lights.com/systems/lighting-system...
They are very very compact, on flashing mode last me about 2 weeks or so between charges and are totally waterproof.
http://www.ayup-lights.com/systems/lighting-system...
They are very very compact, on flashing mode last me about 2 weeks or so between charges and are totally waterproof.
No grumbles about my Exposure Toro either. Yes, it was expensive when I bought it 4+ yrs ago, but it still works despite the daily commute and twice-weekly winter nighttime mtb rides and various dropping, bashing around in my bag and general hard-use.
I get about 2 1/2 hours on full power which is more than enough for my commute plus a week-night ride. It then drops down to medium (sometimes happens during my ride home after commute and mtb ride), then low, then flash... think it'll take around 6+hours before flash drains the battery... never tested it to that extreme though.
Like my iPhone, I just get into the habit of charging it up almost every night when I park up my bike. Sometimes I top it up on my work laptop using the USB cable.
Regular topping up instead of letting it fully drain might not be best practice to retain battery life, but it's what I do and it works for me.
Also have a £20 e-bay special with external battery pack and trailing wires which I mount on my lid. It's cheap, the battery pack broke after 1 winter, the beam pattern isn't very good, I've caught the cable on passing undergrowth etc... but it was £20 and it is bright, so it is what I was expecting for that price.
I get about 2 1/2 hours on full power which is more than enough for my commute plus a week-night ride. It then drops down to medium (sometimes happens during my ride home after commute and mtb ride), then low, then flash... think it'll take around 6+hours before flash drains the battery... never tested it to that extreme though.
Like my iPhone, I just get into the habit of charging it up almost every night when I park up my bike. Sometimes I top it up on my work laptop using the USB cable.
Regular topping up instead of letting it fully drain might not be best practice to retain battery life, but it's what I do and it works for me.
Also have a £20 e-bay special with external battery pack and trailing wires which I mount on my lid. It's cheap, the battery pack broke after 1 winter, the beam pattern isn't very good, I've caught the cable on passing undergrowth etc... but it was £20 and it is bright, so it is what I was expecting for that price.
ewenm said:
Battery tech - you can have really bright lights or you can have really long-lasting lights but you can't have both. I prefer bright and accept I charge them while at work or overnight. Of course brightness without a decent lens is pretty much pointless - so many people seem to chase big lumen figures. I find I can ride a pitch black old railway (tarmac) with 300 lumens no problem, only to be dazzled by 1000+ lumens coming the other way, badly focused and badly directed.
Modes - My Lezyne has 4 modes (IIRC, might be 5), 3/4 brightnesses and 1 flashing.
Waterproof - Again my Lezyne and a colleague's have been 100% waterproof despite all-year-round commuting of 30-40 miles a day (by him, not me).
Compared to 10/15/20 years ago, bike lights are so much better now.
I sent a Lezyne Macro/Micro pair back after rain killed the rear one. I agree they were nice and bright but the battery life left a lot of be desired. They still fell in to the "hammer the button repeatedly" trap, and the "turns on in your bag" one. Modes - My Lezyne has 4 modes (IIRC, might be 5), 3/4 brightnesses and 1 flashing.
Waterproof - Again my Lezyne and a colleague's have been 100% waterproof despite all-year-round commuting of 30-40 miles a day (by him, not me
).Compared to 10/15/20 years ago, bike lights are so much better now.
Close, but no cigar.
I don't think bike lights are universally rubbish.
I have a basic rear TL series Cateye that has done in excess of 30 hours in flashing mode on a single set of batteries. I tape up the seams to stop water getting in, but thats petty much it. I also have a basic 5 LED cateye front light that has also done in excess of 20 hours in flashing and solid mode wityh no extra water proofing. Its even been down the road twice and it still works perfectly. I paid about £19 for that one over three years ago. Hardly rubbish.
I recently bought a Cree T6 from Ebay. Huge amount of light and runs for an hour and half which is all I need it to do. Thanks to chinese manufacturing, you can buy these lights for £40. It means that cars can see me from further away and slow down accordingly. I've really noticed that in the dark lanes that I cycle in on my commute.
I also have a cheap three LED cateye that has also done about 20 hours in flashing mode qnd survived numerous rain showers and still works fine. I paid £11 for it last year.
Lots of flashing modes?? My front cateye has two (Flashing and constant). My rear has three (Flashing, scroll and constant) and the Cree has three (high beam, low beam and strobe, which I never use). I don't really consider my lights to have two many modes!
There are limits to the battery and light technology you can squeeze onto a bicycle. Obviously the ideal, would be to bolt an enormous battery to a rack and run several lights, but that just isn't practical. I'm sure things will improve, but there will always be limitations.
I have a basic rear TL series Cateye that has done in excess of 30 hours in flashing mode on a single set of batteries. I tape up the seams to stop water getting in, but thats petty much it. I also have a basic 5 LED cateye front light that has also done in excess of 20 hours in flashing and solid mode wityh no extra water proofing. Its even been down the road twice and it still works perfectly. I paid about £19 for that one over three years ago. Hardly rubbish.
I recently bought a Cree T6 from Ebay. Huge amount of light and runs for an hour and half which is all I need it to do. Thanks to chinese manufacturing, you can buy these lights for £40. It means that cars can see me from further away and slow down accordingly. I've really noticed that in the dark lanes that I cycle in on my commute.
I also have a cheap three LED cateye that has also done about 20 hours in flashing mode qnd survived numerous rain showers and still works fine. I paid £11 for it last year.
Lots of flashing modes?? My front cateye has two (Flashing and constant). My rear has three (Flashing, scroll and constant) and the Cree has three (high beam, low beam and strobe, which I never use). I don't really consider my lights to have two many modes!
There are limits to the battery and light technology you can squeeze onto a bicycle. Obviously the ideal, would be to bolt an enormous battery to a rack and run several lights, but that just isn't practical. I'm sure things will improve, but there will always be limitations.
I've got two of the Chinese cheap ones (about £25 each) for on road use. Both last about 6 hrs on the low setting (the flashing is too fast and becomes annoying after about 10 seconds, so I don't know how long they would last on that setting. Low is fine for seeing on unlit rural roads, unless they are nearly ready to be charged. Both can be fitted to the handlebars in about 15 seconds, or used as a head torch. Both are waterproof. One I broke by pulling the O ring too hard when trying to fit it one time, but a dab of super glue has fixed it. I got a diffuser for one for a fiver, which gives the beam a bit more width. They have battery packs which are quite heavy but take 2 hours to recharge. I think they are great and I can't understand why anyone would spend more.
I also bought a really cheap set of the small ones on Amazon, £4 for a front and rear. I leave them on flashing, and must have done 40-50 hrs so far. The rear one isn't waterproof, but when it gets wet it stays in the constantly on position and I just have to dismantle it and dry it out for normal service to be resumed. I'm so impressed with these I bought another set and keep them in my jersey as emergency back-up.
I also bought a really cheap set of the small ones on Amazon, £4 for a front and rear. I leave them on flashing, and must have done 40-50 hrs so far. The rear one isn't waterproof, but when it gets wet it stays in the constantly on position and I just have to dismantle it and dry it out for normal service to be resumed. I'm so impressed with these I bought another set and keep them in my jersey as emergency back-up.
Mr Will said:
I sent a Lezyne Macro/Micro pair back after rain killed the rear one. I agree they were nice and bright but the battery life left a lot of be desired. They still fell in to the "hammer the button repeatedly" trap, and the "turns on in your bag" one.
Close, but no cigar.
I haven't found that <shrug> and because of that purely anecdotal sample, I'm going to blame user error. Happy Christmas Close, but no cigar.
Cheapo Cree T6 front light, one of the 4.2v ones, three modes being bright, not as bright but bright enough for 90% of my riding and strobe. I charge it once a week and do about 6 hours of riding after midnight. No idea how long the charge lasts as I've never run it flat. I have four of these lights distributed amongst various bikes.
Rear light is a Planet X Phaart Bleep Dual, three modes, on, simple flash and fancy flash. Takes two AAA batteries which last well. Do have a tendancy to go from bright to dim very quickly when the batteries are on their way out, but at a fiver each I carry a spare. I also have four of these distributed amongst the family.
Works out at about £21 per bike set.
Rear light is a Planet X Phaart Bleep Dual, three modes, on, simple flash and fancy flash. Takes two AAA batteries which last well. Do have a tendancy to go from bright to dim very quickly when the batteries are on their way out, but at a fiver each I carry a spare. I also have four of these distributed amongst the family.
Works out at about £21 per bike set.
mrmr96 said:
Mr Will said:
a run time of 3 hours just isn't enough. This isn't an iPhone, I don't want to have to charge it daily.
I don't think this is a problem for most people. To get a longer run time you'd need bigger, heavier and more expensive batteries. Since most people don't want this, the manufacturers won't make it.If you need a longer run time then I'd suggest looking at one where the battery module is connected by a plug (think magicshine work like this) so you could buy additional batteries and swap them over when the first set runs out.
TwistingMyMelon said:
OP: I think your issue is the thing located between the handlebars and saddle
My top-tube? You are right of course. There are many that will do the job, just none that are perfect. I'm not actually looking for any new ones at the moment, I'm pretty happy with what I have. This is just a bit of hyperbole based on how much it puzzles me to see so many of them repeating simple mistakes over and over again.
ewenm said:
Mr Will said:
I sent a Lezyne Macro/Micro pair back after rain killed the rear one. I agree they were nice and bright but the battery life left a lot of be desired. They still fell in to the "hammer the button repeatedly" trap, and the "turns on in your bag" one.
Close, but no cigar.
I haven't found that <shrug> and because of that purely anecdotal sample, I'm going to blame user error. Happy Christmas Close, but no cigar.
I’m only a light to moderate user, My £17 1 LED CREE lasted over 6 hours though at various power settings on an overnight ride and I never felt like it wasn’t bright enough. It’s got soaked a couple of times and has just shrugged it off. I did wrap the battery in a couple of balloons though when I had to fix the case it came in.
I do know someone with the same light and either the charger or the battery failed over a summer of no use. On the various threads all over on the subject it appears that the odds of your Chinese one lasting less than a year are somewhere between 1 in 10 and 1 in 6
I have a couple of little blinky Nite Rider LEDs, one for the bars, one for my lid, and they’’ll generally manage in a downpour they use CR watch batteries. I’ve got a little 5 LED cateye and a Fiberflare on the rear that have never failed both on AAAs
It’s not scientific, but my experience is that use in the cold and wet tends to trash the batteries quicker. The CR2032s from poundland that come in a 30 pack with a load of pointless ones will easily last a year for a couple of packs, IMHO the conditions finish them before they run out of juice because they’re crap cheap batteries.
I’ve got a load of AAAs that I’ll get on deals when I spot them near the till or wherever.
I see your point though. I think you can go down two routes; a) spend as little as possible £40 to £50 on a Chinese CREE and a set of LEDs front and rear and look at them as disposable items that might need replacing every year or two and find a source for cheap batteries. Or b) spend 5 times that on a proper branded set of lights and then if they fail you’ve got a proper company or shop to head towards, powerful jowls all a quiver shouting sale of goods act and fit for purpose etc.
I do know someone with the same light and either the charger or the battery failed over a summer of no use. On the various threads all over on the subject it appears that the odds of your Chinese one lasting less than a year are somewhere between 1 in 10 and 1 in 6
I have a couple of little blinky Nite Rider LEDs, one for the bars, one for my lid, and they’’ll generally manage in a downpour they use CR watch batteries. I’ve got a little 5 LED cateye and a Fiberflare on the rear that have never failed both on AAAs
It’s not scientific, but my experience is that use in the cold and wet tends to trash the batteries quicker. The CR2032s from poundland that come in a 30 pack with a load of pointless ones will easily last a year for a couple of packs, IMHO the conditions finish them before they run out of juice because they’re crap cheap batteries.
I’ve got a load of AAAs that I’ll get on deals when I spot them near the till or wherever.
I see your point though. I think you can go down two routes; a) spend as little as possible £40 to £50 on a Chinese CREE and a set of LEDs front and rear and look at them as disposable items that might need replacing every year or two and find a source for cheap batteries. Or b) spend 5 times that on a proper branded set of lights and then if they fail you’ve got a proper company or shop to head towards, powerful jowls all a quiver shouting sale of goods act and fit for purpose etc.
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