The irony of cabbies
Discussion
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/541428/...
I'd say difficult to believe but the conceit of cabbies has been brought to my attention a number of times.
I don't cycle in London but if I did I'd but a headcam and . . . well, you must be way ahead of me.
I'd say difficult to believe but the conceit of cabbies has been brought to my attention a number of times.
I don't cycle in London but if I did I'd but a headcam and . . . well, you must be way ahead of me.
I used to cycle a fair bit in Manchester and rode like a car driver - stop at lights (including pelican crossings) BUT - hand on heart - a lot of cyclists don't help themselves. Going through red lights - totally ignoring pedestrian crossings (nearly got my young kids couple of times).
So, as a part time cyclist, I'm with the cabbies on this one. Sorry.
So, as a part time cyclist, I'm with the cabbies on this one. Sorry.
How often do you see a black cab at the head of a queue behind a red light...? If the car in front goes through I'd say more than 50% the time the cab follows even if it's red. Footage of cyclists is more shocking because they are at the head of the queue more often as they filter.
Still shameful footage for cyclists though IMHO, I appreciate they posted little danger to others in this video though
Still shameful footage for cyclists though IMHO, I appreciate they posted little danger to others in this video though
As someone said recently, on another thread, one of the biggest reasons for more cyclists than drivers being caught is opportunity.
Realistically, there are VERY MANY car drivers who, were they to be at the head of the queue when the light turned red, would "jump" or "run" the light. The issue is that once one car stops, all of the vehicles behind MUST also stop, whether they like it or not, because there isn't the room to pass.
The same is not true for cyclists, even where (as in the cabby's video) one or more cyclists decides to comply. The non-complying percentage still find the space to filter past and ignore the light.
In my opinion, and going on experience OUTSIDE London, car drivers are more likely to play the 'Amber Gambler' or 'Red Light Jumper' than cyclists when it's a "proper" junction with collision risks, whereas the incidence of cyclists ignoring red lights is higher at Pedestrian crossings. Having said that, the near misses I've personally witnessed (and in some cases experienced as a pedestrian) have ALL been caused by motor vehicles blasting through red lights, either through complete inattention, or deliberately accelerating to 'beat' a light that's ALREADY GONE RED!!!
I won't defend the actions of cyclists that go through red lights any more than I'll excuse dangerous drivers, but there are some locations where there is no valid reason for a cyclist to be held on a red light, despite it being necessary to allow 4 wheeled vehicles to flow properly. As an example... http://goo.gl/maps/4vxZk ...Now, I stop there when it's red, but a simple solid line bounding the cycle lane, and a separate (permanently green) signal for bikes would cause absolutely no issues at all for traffic joining from the right. There is no traffic crossing the road to collide with, and I'd hesitate to criticise any cyclist who, having assessed the risk, decided to proceed against that particular light. (Having said that, the same is certainly NOT true of the same road in the opposite direction).
Like I said, I will continue to stop for ALL red lights, simply because the way I behave in the company of other road users has the potential to inform their view of all cyclists, although, as with most things, it's only the bad ones you seem to remember. I try to ride much as I drive, with a healthy respect for other road users, but I would certainly not describe myself as a timid or indecisive cyclist (or driver, for that matter).
As for cabbies. Don't get me started on my opinion of them. My views on their standard of driving are definitively "NSFW".
Realistically, there are VERY MANY car drivers who, were they to be at the head of the queue when the light turned red, would "jump" or "run" the light. The issue is that once one car stops, all of the vehicles behind MUST also stop, whether they like it or not, because there isn't the room to pass.
The same is not true for cyclists, even where (as in the cabby's video) one or more cyclists decides to comply. The non-complying percentage still find the space to filter past and ignore the light.
In my opinion, and going on experience OUTSIDE London, car drivers are more likely to play the 'Amber Gambler' or 'Red Light Jumper' than cyclists when it's a "proper" junction with collision risks, whereas the incidence of cyclists ignoring red lights is higher at Pedestrian crossings. Having said that, the near misses I've personally witnessed (and in some cases experienced as a pedestrian) have ALL been caused by motor vehicles blasting through red lights, either through complete inattention, or deliberately accelerating to 'beat' a light that's ALREADY GONE RED!!!
I won't defend the actions of cyclists that go through red lights any more than I'll excuse dangerous drivers, but there are some locations where there is no valid reason for a cyclist to be held on a red light, despite it being necessary to allow 4 wheeled vehicles to flow properly. As an example... http://goo.gl/maps/4vxZk ...Now, I stop there when it's red, but a simple solid line bounding the cycle lane, and a separate (permanently green) signal for bikes would cause absolutely no issues at all for traffic joining from the right. There is no traffic crossing the road to collide with, and I'd hesitate to criticise any cyclist who, having assessed the risk, decided to proceed against that particular light. (Having said that, the same is certainly NOT true of the same road in the opposite direction).
Like I said, I will continue to stop for ALL red lights, simply because the way I behave in the company of other road users has the potential to inform their view of all cyclists, although, as with most things, it's only the bad ones you seem to remember. I try to ride much as I drive, with a healthy respect for other road users, but I would certainly not describe myself as a timid or indecisive cyclist (or driver, for that matter).
As for cabbies. Don't get me started on my opinion of them. My views on their standard of driving are definitively "NSFW".
Randy Winkman said:
Anyone know why this is being published after a spate of cyclist deaths? Is it to say that the cyclists only have themselves to blame? Or that they shouldn't expect anyone to comply with the law? What's the point of it?
I agree, why put this out at such a sensitive time? All it will do is antagonise the more militant cyclists out there. Why as well make it along with 'comedy music and sound effects'? it's like they're mocking cyclists. TBH in my limited experience of london cabbies, they are a vile bunch of bigoted Neanderthals. I have NEVER met a nice one and they constantly have some sort of axe to grind - let's hope we see a video put out by either the CTC or similar of headcam footage of cyclists being abused and threatened by irresponsible drivers - I can see this escalating...
yellowjack said:
As someone said recently, on another thread, one of the biggest reasons for more cyclists than drivers being caught is opportunity.
Realistically, there are VERY MANY car drivers who, were they to be at the head of the queue when the light turned red, would "jump" or "run" the light. The issue is that once one car stops, all of the vehicles behind MUST also stop, whether they like it or not, because there isn't the room to pass.
The same is not true for cyclists, even where (as in the cabby's video) one or more cyclists decides to comply. The non-complying percentage still find the space to filter past and ignore the light.
Opportunity is little to do with it IMO. As you have mentioned many drivers would nip through an amber but it is exceptionally rare to see people continuously sail through on a prolonged red as if there were no lights whatsoever, whereas the LTDA evidence shows most cyclists doing just that.Realistically, there are VERY MANY car drivers who, were they to be at the head of the queue when the light turned red, would "jump" or "run" the light. The issue is that once one car stops, all of the vehicles behind MUST also stop, whether they like it or not, because there isn't the room to pass.
The same is not true for cyclists, even where (as in the cabby's video) one or more cyclists decides to comply. The non-complying percentage still find the space to filter past and ignore the light.
This kind of thing annoys me- not the cabbies video but the f*cking bellend cyclists in it making the rest of us look bad. None of them looked like there where in tearing hurries so its just laziness and stupidity making them run the reds.
I've been driving a couple of decades and I cycle 1000's of miles a year, in either form a transport a stop at lights because it was was I was taught- cycling proficiency at school and Driving lessons.
I wonder if the rise of cycling non-drivers (due to the rising costs of motoring and learning to drive and insure) has led to a raise in the number of people to whom the rules of the road are totally alien and they have no idea of the penalty a driver would receive?
Back "in the day" when I copper could drag a kid home by his eyelobe they used to pull cyclists over and give 'em a clip round the ear for being stupid or a boot through the spokes if the rider was a total t
t- perhaps we need to bring that back too? :-)
I hate to say it as a keen cyclist and born Londoner but many of the accidents are self inflicted through absolutely sh*te riding... Stop at Reds, NEVER filter inside moving traffic and ride like you're driving a car. Whether in the right or wrong you have the most to loose on a bike in Any situation so why tempt fate by being a knob?
I just don't understand.
I've been driving a couple of decades and I cycle 1000's of miles a year, in either form a transport a stop at lights because it was was I was taught- cycling proficiency at school and Driving lessons.
I wonder if the rise of cycling non-drivers (due to the rising costs of motoring and learning to drive and insure) has led to a raise in the number of people to whom the rules of the road are totally alien and they have no idea of the penalty a driver would receive?
Back "in the day" when I copper could drag a kid home by his eyelobe they used to pull cyclists over and give 'em a clip round the ear for being stupid or a boot through the spokes if the rider was a total t
t- perhaps we need to bring that back too? :-)I hate to say it as a keen cyclist and born Londoner but many of the accidents are self inflicted through absolutely sh*te riding... Stop at Reds, NEVER filter inside moving traffic and ride like you're driving a car. Whether in the right or wrong you have the most to loose on a bike in Any situation so why tempt fate by being a knob?
I just don't understand.
Pretty poor show from us cyclists TBH, particularly the rider who got a little close to the lady with a pushchair - the cyclist will have known they had loads of room the Mum may have felt quite intimidated. I have to keep reminding myself that most people don't have the same spatial awareness as we do, walkers on trails for me - apparently it's not okay to pass ramblers airborne......
BUT they did pick two junctions with no traffic coming from the left, Where it is fairly safe to go. Quite a few of the clips also appeared to end just before the lights went green - the cyclists were anticipating the change from lights for other directions and getting away before the cars moved.
Both of these opportunities could be made legal and safe by road junction planning. As Yellow jack has said a separated bike lane hugging the left could be provided to allow bikes to filter through junctions when there is no pedestrian crossing (or could be light controlled on the pedestrian aspect only).
Low level cyclist lights could be provided to let riders set off as soon as the lights turn amber/red for other roads, reducing the overlap and letting cyclists get ahead of the cars where they can be seen.
This would of course require though and money.
BUT they did pick two junctions with no traffic coming from the left, Where it is fairly safe to go. Quite a few of the clips also appeared to end just before the lights went green - the cyclists were anticipating the change from lights for other directions and getting away before the cars moved.
Both of these opportunities could be made legal and safe by road junction planning. As Yellow jack has said a separated bike lane hugging the left could be provided to allow bikes to filter through junctions when there is no pedestrian crossing (or could be light controlled on the pedestrian aspect only).
Low level cyclist lights could be provided to let riders set off as soon as the lights turn amber/red for other roads, reducing the overlap and letting cyclists get ahead of the cars where they can be seen.
This would of course require though and money.
ndg said:
Low level cyclist lights could be provided to let riders set off as soon as the lights turn amber/red for other roads, reducing the overlap and letting cyclists get ahead of the cars where they can be seen.
This.There's a big difference (in safety terms) between running a red when other directions have a green, and going on red / amber when everything else has stopped and you know 100% that your light is about to go green (even when at the front of the queue). It gives you a second or two to get moving, safely clip in and get up to 10/15mph before cars start pulling off behind you.
ndg said:
BUT they did pick two junctions with no traffic coming from the left, Where it is fairly safe to go. Quite a few of the clips also appeared to end just before the lights went green - the cyclists were anticipating the change from lights for other directions and getting away before the cars moved.
Agreed, There are hundreds of much better junctions where you’d be able to get people running through them like suicidal bellends but you wouldn’t get that nice 50%+ figure from it. The majority of that footage was of people illegally but harmlessly merging with traffic coming from the left or getting a slight head start on the lights. A red is a red etc, etc but most of that was no big deal. London’s black cabs are actually pretty decent IME. They give you room and generally don’t kick off unless you do something particularly dangerous or stupid. I must be near at least 50 of them per day when I commute and I’ve only ever had one shouting incident with one on the last three years, and even then at the next set of lights we both put our points across and it was swiftly forgotten. He went on to let me out to go past a stopping bus 100 yards down the road.
Listening to LBC for 8 hours a day seems to have a very negative impact on one’s outlook though.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff