Recommend me: More winter gear q's.
Discussion
Generally pretty good at just htfu, however.. I have stupidly cold hands and feet. So:
Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
Mittens are the only real choice if your hands get that cold. Before you go down this route though, try a very thin pair of silk gloves in your other winter gloves as this can help immensely. Also, make sure your hands are warm before you start cycling. More often than not a lot of cyclists will have cold hands from getting the bike out the garage and only put the gloves on when they're ready to go. Start with cold hands and you'll struggle to get them warm again.
upsidedownmark said:
Generally pretty good at just htfu, however.. I have stupidly cold hands and feet. So:
Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
I ran Neoprene overshoes since the end of last year. They can fit very well, but if they aren't lined, they get soaked and the wet neoprene just clings to your shoes. Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
I recommend getting lined over shoes, which can get wet on the outside, but the liner will still say dry and hopefully warm. I recently bought some BBB Waterflex shoes that are like this and they are much better than plain neoprene ones. Much tougher too.
I've said this a lot before, but if you run road shoes, tape up the vent holes.
I can't comment on using posh socks because I just double up using Tesco sports socks. One day will try posh socks, but I get put off by the price as I'd have to buy 5 pairs as I commute pretty much every day.
I use Endura windproof gloves. Mine are three years old and now falling apart. Its only the velcro bits that have fallen apart, but its fairly annoying.
Any non breathable cover will stop the water getting in but the sweat will be kept in ,ruining your insulation ,so you will end up with cold wet feet anyway
Breathable covers or better still ,breathable waterproof cycle shoes are the answer
I am on my second pair of Gore-tex Shimano cycling boots sand they are brilliant
Breathable socks can work too but the outer shoe needs to be breathable too ,or you will negate any benefit
On cold hands ,It is roughly the same answer ,the key is having enough insulation to keep you warm ,but not too much that you sweat
If the sweat cannot escape ,you will ruin the insulation and you will get cold hands again
Maybe you need to look outside the biking scene for a suitable solution
Maybe a Gore-tex Ski glove may be the answer
Breathable covers or better still ,breathable waterproof cycle shoes are the answer
I am on my second pair of Gore-tex Shimano cycling boots sand they are brilliant
Breathable socks can work too but the outer shoe needs to be breathable too ,or you will negate any benefit
On cold hands ,It is roughly the same answer ,the key is having enough insulation to keep you warm ,but not too much that you sweat
If the sweat cannot escape ,you will ruin the insulation and you will get cold hands again
Maybe you need to look outside the biking scene for a suitable solution
Maybe a Gore-tex Ski glove may be the answer
Edited by ylee coyote on Monday 11th November 22:25
Thanks for everyone's thoughts..
Core temp def not an issue, I'm often unzipping the jacket to let some air in!
No chance of sweating hands, and come to think of it I'm wondering if I can actually have sweaty feet, or if that's water getting in. Shall try some better covers for starters - I wonder if I can ride in motorbike gloves
Core temp def not an issue, I'm often unzipping the jacket to let some air in!
No chance of sweating hands, and come to think of it I'm wondering if I can actually have sweaty feet, or if that's water getting in. Shall try some better covers for starters - I wonder if I can ride in motorbike gloves
upsidedownmark said:
Generally pretty good at just htfu, however.. I have stupidly cold hands and feet. So:
Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
Get wet, stay warm, keep the wind out. Forget anything else, including the idea of waterproof AND warm AND windproof AND breathable, as it simply doesn't exist.Some really, really warm and waterproof gloves - I've tried sealskins all weather (I think), and I freeze. Ditto some endura windproof long fingers which aren't waterproof.
I have planet x neoprene overshoes. Still get cold, and sweaty wet. Sealskins waterproof socks? Better overshoes?
Lastly, legs.. have fleecy leg warmers, they do fine, except when it rains; then again on a roadbike, I don't want flappy over-trousers. Any suggestions welcome - typically I'm out somewhere around 4hrs.
Thanks.
Keep warm by keeping the wind out.
Don't overdress.
Plug the gaps.
Keep your core warm.
Mods, what with this question arising on a near daily basis, I'd be happy to bodge together some sort of "sticky" if anyone wishes.
For my hands I have a pair of these http://shop.hellyhansen.com/gb/item/hhdry-glove-li...
which I wear inside some MTB gloves. I use these when it starts cool and gets warmer as I can simply remove one of the layers and put it in my jersey pocket.
When its cold and wet I have these http://www.endura.co.uk/product-detail.asp?Product...
When its really cold I either wear ski gloves or stay at home. I keep my feet warm with thick wool socks and rubber overshoes to keep the wind out. I keep my head warm with a Rapha winter hat.
which I wear inside some MTB gloves. I use these when it starts cool and gets warmer as I can simply remove one of the layers and put it in my jersey pocket.
When its cold and wet I have these http://www.endura.co.uk/product-detail.asp?Product...
When its really cold I either wear ski gloves or stay at home. I keep my feet warm with thick wool socks and rubber overshoes to keep the wind out. I keep my head warm with a Rapha winter hat.
papocket said:
Endura FS260 gloves - how do you find them? I tried some on and they appeared well made and comfy. How good are they in wet AND cold conditions? My gloves got soaked this weekend and I could barely operate my fingers.nammynake said:
Endura FS260 gloves - how do you find them? I tried some on and they appeared well made and comfy. How good are they in wet AND cold conditions? My gloves got soaked this weekend and I could barely operate my fingers.
Mine were excellent, until I fell off and holed them. Still will wear them, but end up with a wet finger!I'm lucky I run hot when riding, so can go out in fingerless at 9degrees and still be ok. I use Endura Overshoes in their snazzy reflective silver. Provided you dont fall off, they'll be great. I'm on my 2nd pair as I shredded the first pair. Keep your feet warm and dry generally
I wear just enough to be comfortable, and carry a gilet in case it gets cold or an enforced stop.
Jimbo. said:
Get wet, stay warm, keep the wind out. Forget anything else, including the idea of waterproof AND warm AND windproof AND breathable, as it simply doesn't exist.
Keep warm by keeping the wind out.
Don't overdress.
Plug the gaps.
Keep your core warm.
Mods, what with this question arising on a near daily basis, I'd be happy to bodge together some sort of "sticky" if anyone wishes.
I've been thinking we could do with some stickies in here. Especially the common topics (as well as perhaps the "what shiney new toys" and "pics from todays ride" threads).Keep warm by keeping the wind out.
Don't overdress.
Plug the gaps.
Keep your core warm.
Mods, what with this question arising on a near daily basis, I'd be happy to bodge together some sort of "sticky" if anyone wishes.
We've done lighting to death and back - with two main answers.
We've covered the gear question a few times with some important concepts jumbo has posted above.
Perhaps it will save some people (myself included) from learning the hard way - which can also be expensive!
Ps thanks for the helly Hansen liner gloves link. Exactly what I was looking for :-D
Jimbo. said:
Get wet, stay warm, keep the wind out. Forget anything else, including the idea of waterproof AND warm AND windproof AND breathable, as it simply doesn't exist.
Keep warm by keeping the wind out.
Don't overdress.
Plug the gaps.
Keep your core warm.
Mods, what with this question arising on a near daily basis, I'd be happy to bodge together some sort of "sticky" if anyone wishes.
Rubbish ...Keep warm by keeping the wind out.
Don't overdress.
Plug the gaps.
Keep your core warm.
Mods, what with this question arising on a near daily basis, I'd be happy to bodge together some sort of "sticky" if anyone wishes.
There are plenty products out there that are waterproof warm windproof and breathable ,some claim this and simply do not deliver
There are products that actually guarantee to deliver this
I have used these products and they do deliver ,you do have to be careful to adjust your insulation to your activity level otherwise you will overheat and get sweaty
I suffer from cold hands and recently bought some Altura Night Vision winter gloves.
They work by having a thin layering glove on the inside and then a thicker padded waterproof covering.
I find them a bit too warm with both gloves on and a bit too loose with just the outer.
I think a better winter glove would be a padded windstopper glove that keeps you warm when it's cold, with a thin waterproof over glove for when it's wet. But no one seems to make them.
They work by having a thin layering glove on the inside and then a thicker padded waterproof covering.
I find them a bit too warm with both gloves on and a bit too loose with just the outer.
I think a better winter glove would be a padded windstopper glove that keeps you warm when it's cold, with a thin waterproof over glove for when it's wet. But no one seems to make them.
ylee coyote said:
Rubbish ...
There are plenty products out there that are waterproof warm windproof and breathable ,some claim this and simply do not deliver
There are products that actually guarantee to deliver this
I have used these products and they do deliver ,you do have to be careful to adjust your insulation to your activity level otherwise you will overheat and get sweaty
What are these mysterious products of which you speak, oh chosen one?!There are plenty products out there that are waterproof warm windproof and breathable ,some claim this and simply do not deliver
There are products that actually guarantee to deliver this
I have used these products and they do deliver ,you do have to be careful to adjust your insulation to your activity level otherwise you will overheat and get sweaty
They don't exist. Find me a garment that doesn't leave you sweating like Savillie in a playground after a reasonable, sustained effort (even with minimal/no insulation), YET remains waterproof, warm and windproof.
Funny thing is...you won't. Cycling generates far too much heat and sweat for any of the claimed breathable fabrics to shift: Gore what-you-want-Shell/Tex, eVent etc, etc. I've used them all. Great for walking or mincing along, but start to make progress and you'll get that nice sweaty back sensation in no time. If said materials were so good...why do they feature vents?
yes they do work
I have used them for many years
And as I have said before some claim to be "breathable " and "waterproof " and " just like Gore-tex" they simply do not deliver
As you have said ,cycling is one of the most "sweaty" sports producing quite a lot of heat to lose through evaporative cooling and has the ability to overwhelm any fabric ,conventional or waterproof when honking up a hill ,however the most breathable of the waterproof breathables ,do have enough moisture vapour permeability to dissipate this moisture when cycling on level ground
So I kind of agree with you that you will get a "sweaty back" but you will ,no matter what you wear ,but when this activity level reduces ,the breathable materials will have the ability to cool you down when your activity level reduces (as is the case with "conventional" materials )
The big mistake people make is to have too many layers for the activity ,this contributes to the biggest evaporative resistance and promotes condensation within the layers and negates the insulation which will lead to you being wet and cold when the intense period of activity is passed
On the other hand ,wearing non -breathable materials you will very quickly lose the insulation of your garments and ,because you cannot loose this heat through evaporation ,you can get to the stage where you have Hyperthermia and when you stop ,you have no insulation and can lead to hypothermia
Not a good situation to be in
The latest waterproof and breathable fabrics are so advanced that there is no measurable difference in resistance to evaporative heat transfer to conventional non waterproof fabrics ,so there is no physiological penalty for wearing them
This has been proved through many physiological trials ,as well as lab tests
What makes me qualified to say this ?
40 years as a cyclist and 35 years testing these fabrics as a job
I have worked with many of the prominent physiologists ,and their work can amply prove what I am saying
I have used them for many years
And as I have said before some claim to be "breathable " and "waterproof " and " just like Gore-tex" they simply do not deliver
As you have said ,cycling is one of the most "sweaty" sports producing quite a lot of heat to lose through evaporative cooling and has the ability to overwhelm any fabric ,conventional or waterproof when honking up a hill ,however the most breathable of the waterproof breathables ,do have enough moisture vapour permeability to dissipate this moisture when cycling on level ground
So I kind of agree with you that you will get a "sweaty back" but you will ,no matter what you wear ,but when this activity level reduces ,the breathable materials will have the ability to cool you down when your activity level reduces (as is the case with "conventional" materials )
The big mistake people make is to have too many layers for the activity ,this contributes to the biggest evaporative resistance and promotes condensation within the layers and negates the insulation which will lead to you being wet and cold when the intense period of activity is passed
On the other hand ,wearing non -breathable materials you will very quickly lose the insulation of your garments and ,because you cannot loose this heat through evaporation ,you can get to the stage where you have Hyperthermia and when you stop ,you have no insulation and can lead to hypothermia
Not a good situation to be in
The latest waterproof and breathable fabrics are so advanced that there is no measurable difference in resistance to evaporative heat transfer to conventional non waterproof fabrics ,so there is no physiological penalty for wearing them
This has been proved through many physiological trials ,as well as lab tests
What makes me qualified to say this ?
40 years as a cyclist and 35 years testing these fabrics as a job
I have worked with many of the prominent physiologists ,and their work can amply prove what I am saying
Edited by ylee coyote on Saturday 16th November 13:58
Now on vents
This leads on to garment design and the influence of design has on thermophysiological comfort
One of the most important factors when you test garments is the "ventilation index" of the garment design ,this is a measure of the airflow into and outwith the garment
In conventional airpermeable materials ,this factor has less of an influence ,depending on the air permeability of the fabric itself
As you get to materials with an air permeability of 1 l/s or less (closely woven cottons ,coated or laminated fabrics etc) than the ventilation index becomes a significant factor in the physiological comfort of the garment after the resistance to evaporative transfer of the outer fabric .
Increasing the ventilation index of a garment really helps ,in other words
This is why you open your front zip ,or have pit zips ,or have vents
Every little helps
This leads on to garment design and the influence of design has on thermophysiological comfort
One of the most important factors when you test garments is the "ventilation index" of the garment design ,this is a measure of the airflow into and outwith the garment
In conventional airpermeable materials ,this factor has less of an influence ,depending on the air permeability of the fabric itself
As you get to materials with an air permeability of 1 l/s or less (closely woven cottons ,coated or laminated fabrics etc) than the ventilation index becomes a significant factor in the physiological comfort of the garment after the resistance to evaporative transfer of the outer fabric .
Increasing the ventilation index of a garment really helps ,in other words
This is why you open your front zip ,or have pit zips ,or have vents
Every little helps
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