Pro racers - Sprints & Tubs or Wire-Ons??
Discussion
He's a question I've never seen answered on the TV interviews where they feature the £lots pros bikes.....
Do the pros use sprints and tubs (Glued on full carcase tyres for the youngsters) or wire-ons?
Having used both for racing, I can see the benefits of sprints/tubs if you puncture at speed.
So what's the answer
Do the pros use sprints and tubs (Glued on full carcase tyres for the youngsters) or wire-ons?
Having used both for racing, I can see the benefits of sprints/tubs if you puncture at speed.
So what's the answer
Main advantage with tubs is, if you do puncture, they rarely go flat quickly like a clincher tends to, i believe Olano won the worlds one year on a punctured rear tub, but it kept enough pressure to see him through. Also, it's megga critical not to puncture a clincher on a long, fast twisty mountain descent, especially on a front wheel, again, with tubs, if you do puncture, you get that extra time to realise what's happening and hopefully get the team car to get you a replacement, main thing is not to have a clincher go flat so you lose control and end up a battered heap, like so many have...
Other than that I think tubs have the edge on climbing and acceleration, but maybe that's all in the mind.
Other than that I think tubs have the edge on climbing and acceleration, but maybe that's all in the mind.
There is one disadvantage to tubs, if you don't mount them properly, or keep an eye on them, especially with wet conditions, they can come unstuck, and one good hard corner, and tub rolls off the rim, seen it a few times this year at local cross races. Have seen as well once whilst racing on an outdoor velodrome.
Zipp have been looking at Clinchers as well, as they are finding them more aerodynamic. There is also a few mainly american pro teams running, tubeless setups, especially for the unsurfaced road section road races, as the lower pressure without pinching is particularly attractive.
Zipp have been looking at Clinchers as well, as they are finding them more aerodynamic. There is also a few mainly american pro teams running, tubeless setups, especially for the unsurfaced road section road races, as the lower pressure without pinching is particularly attractive.
Just to clarify, when I said "I can see the benefits of sprints/tubs if you puncture at speed" I was referring to the danger when using wire-ons (I refuse to use the Americanism
) of the rim sliding on the road and tipping the rider off. Many years ago I did some 8 miles of a 25 mile time trial on a flat front tub after suffering 2 punctures - I found if the Clement pink adhesive was used there was no risk of the tub rolling - In fact it was sometimes difficult to remove from the rim! If Dunlop was used it could melt in hot weather!! And indeed tubs are generally much faster than wire-ons for racing
) of the rim sliding on the road and tipping the rider off. Many years ago I did some 8 miles of a 25 mile time trial on a flat front tub after suffering 2 punctures - I found if the Clement pink adhesive was used there was no risk of the tub rolling - In fact it was sometimes difficult to remove from the rim! If Dunlop was used it could melt in hot weather!! And indeed tubs are generally much faster than wire-ons for racing
Some interesting comments being posted here but I will try and clear up a few myths
Why pro's run tubulars:
1) Weight. Tubular rims are much lighter than their clincher counterparts. Even with lower weight limit for bikes of 6.8Kg in UCI rules it's much better to have the weight low down centre mass in the bike rather than rotating mass on the wheels. This is why a lot of teams hang lead slugs inside the seat tubes
2) The heat produced during braking on long mountain descents can cause carbon clincher rim walls to literally explode catastrophically. You would not want a rim wall exploding when you were doing 60mph+ like the pros do coming down mountains. In a tubular tyre the braking surface heat is dissipated over the whole rim, rather than being contained in the area that holds the tyre to the rim.
3) Puncture resistance. Like already noted, you can still ride on a flat tubular tyre without the tyre coming away from the rim. This adds safety and plenty of stories of races won with a flat tyre
4) They have a team of mechanics to glue their tyres for them
5) The ride is generally more supple and you can use lower tyre pressures without fear of pinch flats
racerbob said:
Main advantage with tubs is, if you do puncture, they rarely go flat quickly like a clincher tends to
This isn't the case. A tubular tyre can and indeed does have the ability to let go of all it's air in one go. After all a tubular uses the same inner tube that a clincher does, it's just enclosed in the tyre casing instead of being exposed to the spoke bed on the rim. However, it is true that tubulars are less likely to suffer from pinch flatsBadgerBenji said:
There is one disadvantage to tubs, if you don't mount them properly, or keep an eye on them, especially with wet conditions, they can come unstuck, and one good hard corner, and tub rolls off the rim, seen it a few times this year at local cross races. Have seen as well once whilst racing on an outdoor velodrome.
The same could be said if you don't do up your QR's tightly and your wheel fell off. Or if you didn't close the QR on your brakes and then lost the abilty to slow down. If a tubular tyre is properly adhered and allowed to dry and set in accordance with manufacturer guidelines then you will not have a problem. BadgerBenji said:
Zipp have been looking at Clinchers as well, as they are finding them more aerodynamic. There is also a few mainly american pro teams running, tubeless setups, especially for the unsurfaced road section road races, as the lower pressure without pinching is particularly attractive.
Clincher tyres are no more or less aerodynamic than tubular tyres. Why would they be?Why pro's run tubulars:
1) Weight. Tubular rims are much lighter than their clincher counterparts. Even with lower weight limit for bikes of 6.8Kg in UCI rules it's much better to have the weight low down centre mass in the bike rather than rotating mass on the wheels. This is why a lot of teams hang lead slugs inside the seat tubes
2) The heat produced during braking on long mountain descents can cause carbon clincher rim walls to literally explode catastrophically. You would not want a rim wall exploding when you were doing 60mph+ like the pros do coming down mountains. In a tubular tyre the braking surface heat is dissipated over the whole rim, rather than being contained in the area that holds the tyre to the rim.
3) Puncture resistance. Like already noted, you can still ride on a flat tubular tyre without the tyre coming away from the rim. This adds safety and plenty of stories of races won with a flat tyre
4) They have a team of mechanics to glue their tyres for them
5) The ride is generally more supple and you can use lower tyre pressures without fear of pinch flats
All your comments I can agree with but.......
have resolved the issue.
The pink Clement tub cement was always the gold standard IMHO.
itsnotarace said:
If a tubular tyre is properly adhered and allowed to dry and set in accordance with manufacturer guidelines then you will not have a problem.
Except in the case of some 'impact' type adhesives (Dunlop springs to mind) which even though ok when job is done,may become less good in hot weather. It may be that I'm totally out of touch (not having used tubs for some 20 years) and superior products or manufacturers warnings have resolved the issue.The pink Clement tub cement was always the gold standard IMHO.
Yes agree other things can cause defects on a bicycle, but I am just purely commenting on failures I have seen. Yes the pro's have full time mechanics, but lots of people fit them themselves and have problems, a clincher in the main is an easy foolproof solution.
As for aerodynamics, I don't have the exact answer why, but you might want to read http://www.zipp.com/technologies/aerodynamics/fire... there was also an article in Cyclist magazine about it the other month.
The other question I would like to pose is do the pro's train on clinchers for the ease of puncture repair as they don't always have a whole entourage with them.
As for aerodynamics, I don't have the exact answer why, but you might want to read http://www.zipp.com/technologies/aerodynamics/fire... there was also an article in Cyclist magazine about it the other month.
The other question I would like to pose is do the pro's train on clinchers for the ease of puncture repair as they don't always have a whole entourage with them.
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