Upping my training - tips?

[nammynake]

Last year I got into road cycling and completed a few Sportives including the Fred Whitton. Although I didn't get a fast time I quite enjoyed it and felt quite strong all of the way round - even managed Hardknott without walking ;-)

In terms of training I wasn't overly structured - I did a long weekend ride every week leading up to the Fred for probably 8 or
10 weeks of increasing length. I think I got up to around 90 miles a couple of weeks before. I made sure my rides were hilly to prepare for the Fred.

In addition I did 2-3 turbo sessions per week following a training plan in Cycling Plus magazine (Intermediate). These were mostly 45-60m in length and intervals.

I'd really like to build on my progress last year (although I've lost some fitness through illness and lack of riding for the last couple of months) and have a better base to start from compared with this time last year.

I have entered La Marmotte in July which is my main focus but also planning a few more UK Sportives including the Fred Whitton again.

Basically I want to know if people could share some regarding my training this year. I've heard good things about Traineroad power monitoring for Turbos. What about my weekend rides? Should I be aiming to do another long ride mid-week once the days get longer?

I should note that I am around 65kg and 5ft8in so probably don't have a lot of weight to lose.

Thanks

[McFsC]

As far as riding goes, you are doing enough really. 3 hours during the week and 5 hours on a weekend.

To add more I would turn one of the Turbo sessions into 3 hours plus, basically have another big ride during the week.

[okgo]

Within reason it isn't about time spent on the bike. I used to spend 10 hours a week on the bike and got my arse kicked on the training rides. I then did the training rides for a while and still did 10 hours a week but my fitness rocketed. So really its about what you do with those hours, most people waste a lot of time on the bike, myself included.

8 hours is enough to be a very strong rider, hell, I don't do much more than that usually (of actual training). But you need to make those hours hard, if you can't ride lots then you need to make the riding you do more intense to develop your fitness.

Pretty easy to do really, I'm assuming you don't have a powermeter, but if you have a heart rate monitor then (and this isn't an exact science, but its not bad if you don't have power) you should set training zones off the back of your known max heartrate see the zones here http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/pow... This way you can at least know what effort you're putting in, as average speed is not really that useful for this as other factors make it vary so much.

I would be doing a couple of hours at tempo (you'll see that listed above. Spend a couple of hours at threshold if you can, and probably do some intervals too. It will be hard to push yourself beyond what you think you are capable of, so if there are any people you don't ride with because they're too fast, start riding with them

Oh and 5,7 and 65kg is NOT light by cycling standards

[McFsC]

Yeh, HIIT works well if you can't spend planty of hard hours on the bike. It help my fitness, even though it was in the gym and boring as hell, riding my bike is much better now I can keep up.

I'm 6ft 2" and 67kg so if you really want to start racing then losing a few pounds won't hurt.

[nammynake]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I don't own a power meter or even a heart rate monitor. I do tend to push myself reasonably hard when out solo (I've not been on a club ride yet) but it would be good to train smarter.

okgo - I know I'm not a featherweight but was simply stating that I don't carry much excess fat. Training for something like the Marmotte it would be the first thing to target fat loss with all of that climbing. I'm actually not too concerned about the climbs (although I've not done anything of that magnitude before) and find I am naturally quite good at climbing. I know that Strava isn't the be all and end all but I typically find myself in the top 5-10% on climb segments around here, e.g.

http://www.strava.com/segments/norwood-edge-109730...

Edit - I was down to 63kg in late summer.

Edited by nammynake on Sunday 6th January 18:03

[Chicken Chaser]

This is what I need to do. I need to do more hill work, hill reps, threshold stuff and generally focus on building strength and speed. I'm getting on quite well with distance etc provided i'm correctly fuelled, which tends to be a energy bar every hour. I think I'm going to focus on base training and purely time on the bike for a few weeks more, aerobic level and then look at building the strength and speed using shorter runs and specific activity.

[okgo]

Why not start now?

It's very old school to do fk all in winter in terms of intensity in the race world, but if you're not racing being fitter sooner will be a benefit.

[matt-ITR]

5'8" and 65kg is fine, don't listen to people who say you have to be stick thin to compete.
Power and power to weight is crucial and not weight alone.

La Marmotte is amazing, I did it last year and wanting to for years!
Tough but brilliant course, but if you can complete the FWC then your doing OK. Main difference is long alpine climbs vs steep lakes climbs.

[Chicken Chaser]

okgo said:

Why not start now?

It's very old school to do fk all in winter in terms of intensity in the race world, but if you're not racing being fitter sooner will be a benefit.

Surely its better to have the foundations of aerobic training in before building the blocks of strength and power around it to round it all off?

[BMWBen]

okgo said:

Within reason it isn't about time spent on the bike. I used to spend 10 hours a week on the bike and got my arse kicked on the training rides. I then did the training rides for a while and still did 10 hours a week but my fitness rocketed. So really its about what you do with those hours, most people waste a lot of time on the bike, myself included.

8 hours is enough to be a very strong rider, hell, I don't do much more than that usually (of actual training). But you need to make those hours hard, if you can't ride lots then you need to make the riding you do more intense to develop your fitness.

Pretty easy to do really, I'm assuming you don't have a powermeter, but if you have a heart rate monitor then (and this isn't an exact science, but its not bad if you don't have power) you should set training zones off the back of your known max heartrate see the zones here http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/pow... This way you can at least know what effort you're putting in, as average speed is not really that useful for this as other factors make it vary so much.

I would be doing a couple of hours at tempo (you'll see that listed above. Spend a couple of hours at threshold if you can, and probably do some intervals too. It will be hard to push yourself beyond what you think you are capable of, so if there are any people you don't ride with because they're too fast, start riding with them

Oh and 5,7 and 65kg is NOT light by cycling standards

How do you fit it all in with commuting? Do you use the commute as your base level 1-2 type stuff or mix it up with intervals/sprints etc. I find that if I do all my commuting at level 2 mixing in some anaerobic efforts (20 miles each way, 3-4 days per week) it affects my ability to do dedicated threshold rides during the week because I'm recovering.

I think the answer is to just take it easy on the commute or do alternate very light ones (i.e. level 2 on the way in, level 1 or below on way home), but was wondering what you do?

[Janosh]

I'm in a similar boat (started road biking this time last year, completed Etape Act 1 and have signed up for Marmotte this year). Over the winter I planned on doing 2x 1 hour on the rollers per week. I also go ski touring at the weekends, which can be several hours of aerobic exercise.

My sessions on the rollers consist of a progressive 15 minute warm-up, then about 30 minutes pushing 50-11, then a warm down. I hope to improve my climbing speed and endurance by pushing the big gear for 30-45 minutes (mimicking an alpine climb).

Judging by some previous comments, it would seem I'm wasting my time or could certainly benefit more by doing HIIT?

[okgo]

Chicken Chaser said:

Surely its better to have the foundations of aerobic training in before building the blocks of strength and power around it to round it all off?

What sort of miles have you been doing up till now? You're right, but I was under impression you do a fair few 'miles' anyway?

[okgo]

BMWBen said:

How do you fit it all in with commuting? Do you use the commute as your base level 1-2 type stuff or mix it up with intervals/sprints etc. I find that if I do all my commuting at level 2 mixing in some anaerobic efforts (20 miles each way, 3-4 days per week) it affects my ability to do dedicated threshold rides during the week because I'm recovering.

I think the answer is to just take it easy on the commute or do alternate very light ones (i.e. level 2 on the way in, level 1 or below on way home), but was wondering what you do?

Yes, my commute I usually just take pretty easy, but it still racks up a fair amount of stress so its not totally useless I now think.

So yeh, usually commute 4 times a week, but leaning towards doing it every day but having one day where I get the train in or home, when it gets a little closer to season I'll start doing intervals twice a week after work. Then when season is in full swing I'll swap those intervals for one or two 35 mile rides after work where its a upper tempo ride with 2x5-6 min vo2 effort (two hills that we attack full on) so its kind of like a mini race in that sense.

At the minute at weekends I'm going out both days - 1.45-2 hours Saturday at lower end of tempo keeping it steady, then Sunday 3-4 hours at tempo giving it some on the hills to start developing my vo2 again. All of the above is good stuff for races but I will be alternating probably this year with one of my midweek sessions being 40-60 mins at threshold or just below to help with my 10 mile and 25 mile TT's that I'll be doing this year. However I'm hoping I'll have a TT of some sort every other week anyway, so that will cover off that session as obviously a 25 or a 10 are full on efforts.

What I found intersting in Wiggins book was that he rubbished the idea of getting race fit by racing, I agree, most races I did this year were far easier than me going out solo and doing a ride hard of the same duration - I did 3 hours in Richmond Park at 285w average, no race I did came close to that, and that wasn't going full on. So its important to me this season to still keep myself at peak fitness and not rely on races, as on the whole they're not hard enough.

Bit of an essay, but hopefully some of it makes sense. I have really started using trainingpeaks properly with all the graphs and performance charts, and its interesting to map it all, but to do this properly you need a powermeter really.

Edited by okgo on Monday 7th January 10:45

[BMWBen]

okgo said:

BMWBen said:

How do you fit it all in with commuting? Do you use the commute as your base level 1-2 type stuff or mix it up with intervals/sprints etc. I find that if I do all my commuting at level 2 mixing in some anaerobic efforts (20 miles each way, 3-4 days per week) it affects my ability to do dedicated threshold rides during the week because I'm recovering.

I think the answer is to just take it easy on the commute or do alternate very light ones (i.e. level 2 on the way in, level 1 or below on way home), but was wondering what you do?

Yes, my commute I usually just take pretty easy, but it still racks up a fair amount of stress so its not totally useless I now think.

So yeh, usually commute 4 times a week, but leaning towards doing it every day but having one day where I get the train in or home, when it gets a little closer to season I'll start doing intervals twice a week after work. Then when season is in full swing I'll swap those intervals for one or two 35 mile rides after work where its a upper tempo ride with 2x5-6 min vo2 effort (two hills that we attack full on) so its kind of like a mini race in that sense.

At the minute at weekends I'm going out both days - 1.45-2 hours Saturday at lower end of tempo keeping it steady, then Sunday 3-4 hours at tempo giving it some on the hills to start developing my vo2 again. All of the above is good stuff for races but I will be alternating probably this year with one of my midweek sessions being 40-60 mins at threshold or just below to help with my 10 mile and 25 mile TT's that I'll be doing this year. However I'm hoping I'll have a TT of some sort every other week anyway, so that will cover off that session as obviously a 25 or a 10 are full on efforts.

What I found intersting in Wiggins book was that he rubbished the idea of getting race fit by racing, I agree, most races I did this year were far easier than me going out solo and doing a ride hard of the same duration - I did 3 hours in Richmond Park at 285w average, no race I did came close to that, and that wasn't going full on. So its important to me this season to still keep myself at peak fitness and not rely on races, as on the whole they're not hard enough.

Bit of an essay, but hopefully some of it makes sense.

Yeah that's pretty helpful. I find it hard to ratchet down the intensity of the commute having been doing it balls out for the last 3 years, but I'm starting to understand the importance of sustained high effort training rides and my understanding of how hard "hard" is has only just developed as a result of doing some static bike work. Turns out you can go a lot harder than you think.

The key difference I'm going to have is that I need to try and get all of my cycling in during the week and can only do the occasional weekend training ride (probably manage 1 every 2 weeks) because it's not my primary sport so at the weekends I'm doing other training. But then my aim this year is to get Cat 3 not Cat 1

I'll deffo start fitting in some after work training rides when the light comes back.

Do you manage to fit any general gym work into all that or do you just rely on what you can do on the bike?

[nick s]

I'm sure some people doing 5 hours + per week on the bike are just doing loads of junk miles?

As i train for Triathlon, i probably only do about 2-3 hours a week on my bike. But as i know i don;t have as much time as i would like, i make sure i go out and smash every session. None of those 3 hours are at any point cruising along and just spinning my legs. I'll go and find all the hills i can and push myself until i'm almost sick every time!

I'm consitently in the top 5% of splits time wise in my Triathlon club at events (the bike leg is effectively a time trial). There are other members doing 5-6 sessions a week and putting in 4-5 hour long weekend group rides week in week out who are getting nowhere near me.

The point i'm trying to make is i guess it's not how many hours training you're doing. It's what you're actually getting from those hours, and making sure they're specific and quality.

Edited by nick s on Monday 7th January 11:06

[BMWBen]

nick s said:

I'm sure some people doing 5 hours + per week on the bike are just doing loads of junk miles?

As i train for Triathlon, i probably only do about 2-3 hours a week on my bike. But as i know i don;t have as much time as i would like, i make sure i go out and smash every session. None of those 3 hours are at any point cruising along and just spinning my legs. I'll go and find all the hills i can and push myself until i'm almost sick every time!

I'm consitently in the top 5% of splits time wise in my Triathlon club at events (the bike leg is effectively a time trial). There are other members doing 5-6 sessions a week and putting in 4-5 hour long weekend group rides week in week out who are getting nowhere near me.

The point i'm trying to make is i guess it's not how many hours training you're doing. It's what you're actually getting from those hours, and making sure they're specific and quality.

Edited by nick s on Monday 7th January 11:06

Problem is you have to be quite antisocial to do it properly - no more weekend rides with your mates! Unless they want to make themselves throw up too.

[matt-ITR]

nick s said:

The point i'm trying to make is i guess it's not how many hours training you're doing. It's what you're actually getting from those hours, and making sure they're specific and quality.

Edited by nick s on Monday 7th January 11:06

Specific being the key word. Your training might be specific to triathlon events where the cycle is 40km at threshold (for Olympic distance at least) but it wouldn't be specific for someone attempting La Marmotte for example.
Longer rides mean fat burning is needed, the best way to get your body used to that is longer rides so in that case its not junk miles.

[matt-ITR]

Janosh said:

I'm in a similar boat (started road biking this time last year, completed Etape Act 1 and have signed up for Marmotte this year). Over the winter I planned on doing 2x 1 hour on the rollers per week. I also go ski touring at the weekends, which can be several hours of aerobic exercise.

My sessions on the rollers consist of a progressive 15 minute warm-up, then about 30 minutes pushing 50-11, then a warm down. I hope to improve my climbing speed and endurance by pushing the big gear for 30-45 minutes (mimicking an alpine climb).

Judging by some previous comments, it would seem I'm wasting my time or could certainly benefit more by doing HIIT?

Going from last years Etape Act 1, compared to La Marmotte it was a bit easier but the heat going up the final climb made it a real challenge!
But if you completed Act 1 in a good time, then you should be fine a the Marmotte. In essence its 3 very long climbs, similar to 2012 Act 1, its just each climb is a little harder.

Alpe d'Huez at the end is a tough one because its pretty relentless and its steep at the beginning. It is very easy to arrive at the bottom with nothing left in the tank!

[nick s]

matt-ITR said:

nick s said:

The point i'm trying to make is i guess it's not how many hours training you're doing. It's what you're actually getting from those hours, and making sure they're specific and quality.

Edited by nick s on Monday 7th January 11:06

Specific being the key word. Your training might be specific to triathlon events where the cycle is 40km at threshold (for Olympic distance at least) but it wouldn't be specific for someone attempting La Marmotte for example.
Longer rides mean fat burning is needed, the best way to get your body used to that is longer rides so in that case its not junk miles.

Very true! I guess the training i do works well for the 40km bike legs of Tri's as you say, but not sure it's helping my long distance endurance i suppose!

[Chicken Chaser]

okgo said:

Chicken Chaser said:

Surely its better to have the foundations of aerobic training in before building the blocks of strength and power around it to round it all off?

What sort of miles have you been doing up till now? You're right, but I was under impression you do a fair few 'miles' anyway?

My training is off an on due to motivation, work and weather. I've set myself a more than achievable resolution of 300 miles a month, which is nowhere near what you're turning in.

I plan to aim at least one longer ride (50+) per week followed by a number of shorter ones. This week i've seen just over 150 but its more than I have been doing, hence the necessity to build on my mileage.

Saying all this, my shorter rides tend to be harder anyway, just because I want to feel like i've done something rather than just riding around in zone 2 for a short period of time.