Post crash with a car advice required.
Discussion
Should possibly be in SP&L first but I'd much prefer an initial point of view from other cyclists.
I was out on my road bike the other day, lovely and sunny and I was riding well, thus I decided to add in an extra loop incorporating a rather chunky climb. As I came to the top and was preparing to turn right I sensed a car behind me so indicated my intention to move turn and began the 'drift' into the middle of the road, as I neared the middle the car went past me and next thing I know I was falling on to the side of the car and then landing on my arse.
http://goo.gl/maps/V3eeD
Thankfully the car stopped to help me and they could not of been more concerned, we swapped details (but not insurance) and after 10 minutes or so I decided to ride the 4 miles home with them following as a precaution.
Thankfully no severe damage to bike aside from a ripped saddle, however my cycling shorts and top are damaged and beyond repair.
Apart from a very stiff neck and lower back my injuries are nothing more than superficial, I guess that is the main thing.
And here it comes, I'm now out of pocket to replace my kit and I'm also restricted in my movements all because this chap was not paying enough attention to the road in front.
Do I put this down to a fact of cycling life and use it as an excuse to buy some new kit or do I go down the road of com-pen-say-shun as so beloved of certain elements of PH?
I was out on my road bike the other day, lovely and sunny and I was riding well, thus I decided to add in an extra loop incorporating a rather chunky climb. As I came to the top and was preparing to turn right I sensed a car behind me so indicated my intention to move turn and began the 'drift' into the middle of the road, as I neared the middle the car went past me and next thing I know I was falling on to the side of the car and then landing on my arse.
http://goo.gl/maps/V3eeD
Thankfully the car stopped to help me and they could not of been more concerned, we swapped details (but not insurance) and after 10 minutes or so I decided to ride the 4 miles home with them following as a precaution.
Thankfully no severe damage to bike aside from a ripped saddle, however my cycling shorts and top are damaged and beyond repair.
Apart from a very stiff neck and lower back my injuries are nothing more than superficial, I guess that is the main thing.
And here it comes, I'm now out of pocket to replace my kit and I'm also restricted in my movements all because this chap was not paying enough attention to the road in front.
Do I put this down to a fact of cycling life and use it as an excuse to buy some new kit or do I go down the road of com-pen-say-shun as so beloved of certain elements of PH?
Sounds like you were bloody lucky to be relatively unharmed. Was the car damaged? Who's fault do you think it was? If you feel partly responsible, maybe put it down to experience, if you don't, contact the driver and ask as a minimum that you get new saddle and kit.
If you are not injured a such, wouldn't bother with compensayshun but would be nice to get your kit sorted, again if you feel blameless.
If you are not injured a such, wouldn't bother with compensayshun but would be nice to get your kit sorted, again if you feel blameless.
TheFungle said:
....I sensed a car behind me....
Sorry, it may just be the way you've written your post, but you should always look behind prior to signalling - mirror signal manoeuvre - as you would (or should) do in a car. If you did not look behind you than I'm afraid I'd put you partially to blame. You've not mentioned how long it was between you 'drifting' to the middle to when the car hit or brushed you.Just for the 'haters', I'm also a cyclist but ALWAYS look behind me prior to any turn and am always prepared to stop and pull over and wait for a suitable gap or for the vehicle to pass.
s3fella said:
Sounds like you were bloody lucky to be relatively unharmed. Was the car damaged? Who's fault do you think it was? If you feel partly responsible, maybe put it down to experience, if you don't, contact the driver and ask as a minimum that you get new saddle and kit.
If you are not injured a such, wouldn't bother with compensayshun but would be nice to get your kit sorted, again if you feel blameless.
The car escaped with a damaged wing mirror and scratch down passenger door, not sure what part of me or the bike caused the scratch TBH!If you are not injured a such, wouldn't bother with compensayshun but would be nice to get your kit sorted, again if you feel blameless.
I'd say it was 90% his fault, perhaps I should have looked back earlier and indicated sooner but at point of impact I was still before the junction and in my side of the 'lane', even if it had been a simple overtake he was performing he should have been giving me more room.
As as a cyclist, driverist and an HGVist who is somewhat introspective about his road skills I like to think I'm being honest with myself (and you lot!) about just what happened.
If I'd been in my car and the same thing happened it would be very clear as to who was at blame.
S6PNJ said:
TheFungle said:
....I sensed a car behind me....
Sorry, it may just be the way you've written your post, but you should always look behind prior to signalling - mirror signal manoeuvre - as you would (or should) do in a car. If you did not look behind you than I'm afraid I'd put you partially to blame. You've not mentioned how long it was between you 'drifting' to the middle to when the car hit or brushed you.Just for the 'haters', I'm also a cyclist but ALWAYS look behind me prior to any turn and am always prepared to stop and pull over and wait for a suitable gap or for the vehicle to pass.
Unfortunately with looking back in hindsight it's hard to put an exact timeframe on the whole incident, all I know is I can very clearly & slowly remember being dragged along the car before landing on my arse!
TheFungle said:
Pothole said:
The usual way I'd like to think 
Right arm straight out.
My experience would suggest that this is not 'usual' at all. Most cyclists hold their arm at a shallow angle slightly out and behind their body, making it difficult to know where they are planning on going.
That said the driver should not overtake you approaching a right turning in any case. He hit you from behind, effectively. He is 100% liable I'd say.
Why didn't you take his insurance details? Too shaken up?
Pothole said:
TheFungle said:
Pothole said:
The usual way I'd like to think Right arm straight out.
My experience would suggest that this is not 'usual' at all. Most cyclists hold their arm at a shallow angle slightly out and behind their body, making it difficult to know where they are planning on going.
That said the driver should not overtake you approaching a right turning in any case. He hit you from behind, effectively. He is 100% liable I'd say.
Why didn't you take his insurance details? Too shaken up?
From a drivers perspective if a rider in front of me puts his arm out level straight or slightly behind then I'm 100% sure I'll interpret that as him turning right.
I've all his other details apart from the insurance, if that's a route I decide to go down then they will be easy enough to come by.
I'm glad you're ok, it's happend to me 3 times now, not the coming off bit, thankfully. It seems to some drivers that where the carriage is too narrow for an undertake, if you indicate to turn right they see that they may have to brake and so go for a rushed overtake so they don't get incovenienced by the cyclist. Annoys the crap out of me.
Personally I'd be tempted to contact them and tell how much damage they've done. Look at it the other way - had you been in your car and bumped their car causing £200 of damage do you think they'd have any hesitation claiming off you?
Personally I'd be tempted to contact them and tell how much damage they've done. Look at it the other way - had you been in your car and bumped their car causing £200 of damage do you think they'd have any hesitation claiming off you?
davepoth said:
Looking at it another way, it does say in the Highway Code to avoid overtaking where there are side turnings for this very reason...
^^This^^And These:
RULE 212
When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.
RULE 213
Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.
RULE 163
OVERTAKE ONLY WHEN IT IS SAFE AND LEGAL TO DO SO. You should not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
GIVE MOTORCYCLISTS, CYCLISTS AND HORSE RIDERS AT LEAST AS MUCH ROOM AS YOU WOULD WHEN OVERTAKING A CAR (see Rules 211-215)
Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre
RULE 167
DO NOT OVERTAKE where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
APPROACHING OR AT A ROAD JUNCTION ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ROAD
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
WHEN A ROAD USER IS INDICATING RIGHT, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
STAY BEHIND IF YOU ARE FOLLOWING A CYCLIST APPROACHING A roundabout or JUNCTION, and you intend to turn left
when a tram is standing at a kerbside tram stop and there is no clearly marked passing lane for other traffic
It would seem that the driver involved has ignored at least one element of all four of these highway code rules, but it comes as no shock to me. Riding on mainly rural roads, it's always amazed me just how many drivers ignore these basic rules:
RULE 166
DO NOT OVERTAKE if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, WHEN YOU ARE APPROACHING
a corner or bend
a hump bridge
THE BROW OF A HILL
when passing a cyclist, which I assume that they wouldn't do if they were passing another motor vehicle.
OP seems, from his version of events, to have done nothing wrong. The only possible complaint from the driver could be one of a 'late' turn signal, but if OP was riding up a hill, it would be difficult to relinquish the control of his bike to make a longer turn signal, and the following driver should have taken note of the situation and the OP's road position and allowed for the possibility (likely-hood?) of an imminent manoeuvre.
Remember that you do not have to be insured to claim against another person as a third party who has suffered loss. This 'momentary lapse' is exactly why the driver pays his premiums, and if he drove better he wouldn't stand to lose his NCD. If they don't offer to pay for your damaged gear (on a like for like basis) then indicate to them that you are left with no choice other than to report the Road Traffic Collision to the Police, and put it in the hands of the insurance company. Don't get angry, or make idle threats - make statements of intent, and always allow them to see sense and right the wrong on good terms. If the driver is a reasonable person, there should be no problem.
ETA: I would avoid going down the compo route - people who claim for injuries and losses when they haven't suffered them beat us all with a s
tty stick by causing all of our premiums to skyrocket. Stick to putting right the actual damages and losses you have suffered.Edited by yellowjack on Sunday 19th August 00:45
The law is pretty clear about the obligation to report RTAs to the police at the time of the incident. You should either decide to do so, or not, irrespective of any agreement with the other party. Don't use it as a threat, and don't expect the police to necessarily be sympathetic if you decide days later to report the incident to them.
I'm guessing when speaking to the driver their response will be "you pulled out as I was overtaking", and I'm not sure how you "sense" the car, surely a quick look back would of been the thing to do. Sounds to me like a new saddle and a pair of shorts are a small price to pay for having all your limbs intact and pointing at the right angles!
Rocksteadyeddie said:
The law is pretty clear about the obligation to report RTAs to the police at the time of the incident. You should either decide to do so, or not, irrespective of any agreement with the other party. Don't use it as a threat, and don't expect the police to necessarily be sympathetic if you decide days later to report the incident to them.
This!If he had a damaged wingmirror and a scratch down his passenger door, it sounds like you started turning while he was beside you...
If he was completely to fault with no doubt, I'd get in contact and ask him to foot the bill for your new items (or at least a contribution to the amount of his excess...), but if you're unsure, he may be counter claiming personally for damage to his door and wingmirror.
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