Take drugs and still be a hero!
Discussion
Robsti said:
I am sickened by Millars inclusion in the GB team! (shortlist)
1/ he's not in the team, he's in a longlist of 8 from which 5 will be selected but dont let that get in thew way of your scandal and outrage Edited by Robsti on Thursday 14th June 07:31
2/ whats the difference between the Olympics, and then the Commonwealth Games and the World Championships, both of which Millar has already competed in since he was banned?
Rocksteadyeddie said:
Why? He took drugs. He served his time. There is an argument about the length of sentence for drugs offences, but presumably you don't approve of double jeopardy?
Not only that, but he's been extremely open and honest about what he did and he's committed himself to fighting against doping in cycling. He's a good guy."Take drugs and still be a hero!"
After admitting it (unlike 90% of the other riders caught) serving a ban and showing remorse, repenting and speaking out against doping and after the BOA falls into line with all the other Olympic Associations and follows WADA/CAS rules like everyone else.
After admitting it (unlike 90% of the other riders caught) serving a ban and showing remorse, repenting and speaking out against doping and after the BOA falls into line with all the other Olympic Associations and follows WADA/CAS rules like everyone else.
I have split views on this.
For individuals who've served their ban, I don't see a problem with them being able to compete again. For athletes who were part of a team, however, I don't think they should ever be allowed back.
My rationale behind this is that to a large extent, the only person the individual cheat is hurting is themselves when they get caught and get stripped of all their titles.
For team athletes, however, it's very different. Christian Malcolm, Marlon Devonish and Darren Campbell were all stripped of their 2003 4x100 World Championship Silver medals because Dwain Chambers cheated. How can anyone be expected to participate with Chambers (or any other convicted drugs cheat) in a team event after that?
For individuals who've served their ban, I don't see a problem with them being able to compete again. For athletes who were part of a team, however, I don't think they should ever be allowed back.
My rationale behind this is that to a large extent, the only person the individual cheat is hurting is themselves when they get caught and get stripped of all their titles.
For team athletes, however, it's very different. Christian Malcolm, Marlon Devonish and Darren Campbell were all stripped of their 2003 4x100 World Championship Silver medals because Dwain Chambers cheated. How can anyone be expected to participate with Chambers (or any other convicted drugs cheat) in a team event after that?
i think cycling can almost be treated alone in comparison to athletics and other sports. You only need to read about Tom Simpson and the use of amphetamines in the sport in the 60s to realise that to its not a black and white case and that drugs in the sport go back a long, long way...
I dont blame anyone but Millar he knew what he was doing but for a young cyclist in a continental team, desperate to do well and under immense pressure from soigneurs and managers to "do recovery" its not a surprise that he conceded to their demands. as others have said, his critics should read "Racing through the Dark" before spouting nonsense.
I dont blame anyone but Millar he knew what he was doing but for a young cyclist in a continental team, desperate to do well and under immense pressure from soigneurs and managers to "do recovery" its not a surprise that he conceded to their demands. as others have said, his critics should read "Racing through the Dark" before spouting nonsense.
pablo said:
I dont blame anyone but Millar he knew what he was doing but for a young cyclist in a continental team, desperate to do well and under immense pressure from soigneurs and managers to "do recovery" its not a surprise that he conceded to their demands. as others have said, his critics should read "Racing through the Dark" before spouting nonsense.
Exactly my thoughts.If your sufficently niave to believe all top atheletes (except those who get caught) have blood totaly clean of performance enhancing chemicals then be upset....
Frankly I doubt you'd find a single athelete with a "normal" blood chemistry, those who aren't taking illegal substances are certainly taking as much of the just legal ones as they can.
Perhaps you'd like to see a ban on altitude training, ice baths, healthy eating and training- these all give an advantage too :-)
The solution would be to test everyone at every stage of every event and simple remove them or their result from any in which they where found to be illegal in, rather than random testing.
Another solution would be to have a seperate event for enhanced participants- you can take whatever you like, swap your legs for carbon blades, have fins glues on your feet, your body reshaped to be aerodynamic etc (depending on event) and we can all watch 5sec 100mtrs events.
Frankly I doubt you'd find a single athelete with a "normal" blood chemistry, those who aren't taking illegal substances are certainly taking as much of the just legal ones as they can.
Perhaps you'd like to see a ban on altitude training, ice baths, healthy eating and training- these all give an advantage too :-)
The solution would be to test everyone at every stage of every event and simple remove them or their result from any in which they where found to be illegal in, rather than random testing.
Another solution would be to have a seperate event for enhanced participants- you can take whatever you like, swap your legs for carbon blades, have fins glues on your feet, your body reshaped to be aerodynamic etc (depending on event) and we can all watch 5sec 100mtrs events.
Robsti said:
I am sickened by Millars inclusion in the GB team! (shortlist)
Read his book ("Racing through the Dark"): it's *very* good.Edited by Robsti on Thursday 14th June 07:31
He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
Jimbo. said:
Robsti said:
I am sickened by Millars inclusion in the GB team! (shortlist)
Read his book ("Racing through the Dark"): it's *very* good.Edited by Robsti on Thursday 14th June 07:31
He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
+1 for reading his book.
Jimbo. said:
Read his book ("Racing through the Dark"): it's *very* good.
He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
Everyone is repentant once they are caught! He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
pablo said:
Robsti said:
I am sickened by Millars inclusion in the GB team! (shortlist)
1/ he's not in the team, he's in a longlist of 8 from which 5 will be selected but dont let that get in thew way of your scandal and outrage Edited by Robsti on Thursday 14th June 07:31
2/ whats the difference between the Olympics, and then the Commonwealth Games and the World Championships, both of which Millar has already competed in since he was banned?
Robsti said:
Jimbo. said:
Read his book ("Racing through the Dark"): it's *very* good.
He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
Everyone is repentant once they are caught! He went pro.
Went through hell.
Doped.
Confessed (note: he never got doping: they only found some vials, and he came clean about the rest)
Went through hell.
Got banned.
Served his ban.
Now instead of doing a Rico, a Contador or a Landis, he kept a level head and started doing some good. No-one in the pro peleton works harder. and you can see what he did hurts him bad whenever he talks about it. He'll live with that forever.
He's one of the most experienced, intelligent guys out there, a fighter and fast with it. He deserves a place on the team
Rocksteadyeddie said:
That's the point though isn't it? Valverde, Ricco, Landis (initially) etc etc. None of them were repentant, and none of them actively tried to change the sport as Millar has done.
No,I think the point is that young cyclists may think it's ok to take drugs because Millar is still allowed to compete in the olympics! (if picked) .Robsti said:
Rocksteadyeddie said:
That's the point though isn't it? Valverde, Ricco, Landis (initially) etc etc. None of them were repentant, and none of them actively tried to change the sport as Millar has done.
No,I think the point is that young cyclists may think it's ok to take drugs because Millar is still allowed to compete in the olympics! (if picked) .None of the other ex dopers were repentant. Millar held his hands up and admitted everything, he then has been outspoken about doping since. He's very unlike the other guys caught doping.
The only change is that the BOA are now following the same rules as everyone else. If Millar was Australian or American this wouldn't even be an issue as they have been following the CAS/WADA rules already.
el stovey said:
Robsti said:
Rocksteadyeddie said:
That's the point though isn't it? Valverde, Ricco, Landis (initially) etc etc. None of them were repentant, and none of them actively tried to change the sport as Millar has done.
No,I think the point is that young cyclists may think it's ok to take drugs because Millar is still allowed to compete in the olympics! (if picked) .None of the other ex dopers were repentant. Millar held his hands up and admitted everything, he then has been outspoken about doping since. He's very unlike the other guys caught doping.
The only change is that the BOA are now following the same rules as everyone else. If Millar was Australian or American this wouldn't even be an issue as they have been following the CAS/WADA rules already.
You support the drug cheats and I won't ! Everyone is happy!
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