Understeering on trails...

[Buffalo]

Just been for the first ride of the year up here in the Canadian Tundra... I noticed that my buddy was able to take much tighter turns than I was. The trails are tight, narrow and through forests with lots of tree roots, so coming off line downhill at speed can be quite hazardous to general health conditions...

How much is understeer a function of bike set up (frame geometry?) and how much technique? Maybe I just need to commit to the turns harder - but in terms of bike set up, how can ensure it is as good as it can be?

Thanks

[rhinochopig]

It's all about technique chap. Google cutties / cuttys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzWLOjXaaAs&fea...

Weight should be over the front wheel - weight through inside hand and outside foot - and wherever the front goes the rear will follow.

Also look where you want to go, not where you're trying to avoid.

It would also be worth reading about counter-steering if your problem is high speed bends. You turn left when you want to turn right It's a centrifugal force thing.

Edited by rhinochopig on Tuesday 15th May 09:29

[jshell]

Tyres? I've noticed some tyres will track very well on a tight turn, but others will want to slide out from under you when you turn in.

[cramman]

jshell said:

Tyres? I've noticed some tyres will track very well on a tight turn, but others will want to slide out from under you when you turn in.

I found just dropping the pressure a bit in my front tyre helped me grip a lot better in the turns.

[budgie smuggler]

Combination of bike geometry, setup and technique. Ride your mates bike and see if you can then turn in better than on yours.

Geometry wise, it's down to head angle, top tube length, seat tube angle.
Then you have the numerous setup options such as stem length, bar width, saddle height & fore/aft positioning, sag on the forks/rear shock (changes effective head angle), tyre pressures/compounds.

Even the position of the brake levers can have an effect because it forces you to change the angle of your arm or be uncomfortable (angled too far down - weight pushed forward, too flat - weight too far back).

Rhinochopig has covered the basic technique well. Outside pedal down and weighted, look where you want to go.

[RobDickinson]

Weight should be loaded evenly on both tyres. Less weight = less grip.

Also remember to counter turn just before the turn. This puts your weight INTO the turn rather than outside it.

i.e. coming up to a left hander turn right just before it then left.

[rhinochopig]

RobDickinson said:

Weight should be loaded evenly on both tyres. Less weight = less grip.

Also remember to counter turn just before the turn. This puts your weight INTO the turn rather than outside it.

i.e. coming up to a left hander turn right just before it then left.

That's not true in all cases. In some turns you want the back end to be lose as it helps turn the bike. Look a good rider competing and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDjem5RfuAI

The vid this clip is from is worth buying actually, some great riding tips.

ETA your point about counter-steering may confuse the OP a little - as did my post reading it back. Counter-steering really comes from weight positioning - inside hand, outside foot - as this has the effect of turning the wheel the 'wrong' way. Telling people to physically turn the bike the 'wrong' way can be confusing as they try to steer rather than weight the bike which will drop the bike into the corner but not leave them in the correct body position to take the corner.

Edited by rhinochopig on Tuesday 15th May 09:39

[Dragoco]

OP, compare your stem and handlebar setup to that of your friends; a nice short stem and wider riser bars will speed up your steering and give you a lot more confidence when turning in. All the previous advice on weight transfer and reducing front tyre pressure is spot on.

[stuarthat]

try swapping with your mates bike first do a couple runs

[RobDickinson]

stuarthat said:

try swapping with your mates bike first do a couple runs

I'd say its 99% rider/technique, %1 bike.

[Buffalo]

Hi - thanks for the replies. First bike in 15 years, but before that I was quite a competent rider but in different conditions and vastly different bike setups (jeez how they've changed!). This is my first bike with decent front suspension, which occasionally catches me out if the front dips on a deep rut or big root - but on the whole I am greatly enjoying it.

Weight over front wheel - could have a point here in some cases as I noted that i was leant back on some steep declines - this may be related to wariness on fork rebound - so I'm probably not in the correct position for tight turns at base of slope. But maybe not the issue on the flat turns - I will definitely check myself on the next ride though. I have the brake levers 'down' on the handlebars, which are low stem and slight riser.

I faffed a bit with tyre pressure and currently have them softer, but better advice on pressures would be greatly appreciated - hardtail with Recon gold front shocks. I do think a 'grippier' tyre would be better. I have maxxis ardens, which are a bit sparse in the lug department for the loose sand/ wet sods we seem to get here. That said I don't mind the bike moving around under me (sideways slip)

Bike geometry. I'm interested on this. I have a Kona Kula, which is by far the most 'laid back' geometry I have ever ridden with and as such the head angle is pretty inclined. Forks with 100mm travel. I like the fit of the frame to me, but I would be interested to learn of the 'characteristics' of this laid back frame style, which is more than my buddy's bike.

Thinking about it, I probably spend most time cornering with pedals flat, which may mean that I don't get a good lean on the bike (wrt outside down pedal, inside hand lean) - I can see now how this would run the bike out on the corner.