Why aren't my legs recovering?
Discussion
I'm going to get the train in today anyway, as my new saddle has left me feeling like a small boy in a Catholic orphanage, but even setting that aside, I would've been considering the train because my legs just don't feel up to riding. I know they'd get me there, but I also know it would be a frustrating, uncomfortable experience.
I just don't understand why???
I've only ridden 65 miles this week, and that's been split evenly over my commutes in and out yesterday and Monday. I hadn't ridden since Thursday before that. Yes, I'm on the heavier side of average for the cycling community, but on the other hand, I've been commuting regularly over this distance for the last year or so, and whilst I had a lot of early improvement, it just seems to have plateaued.
Should I be doing specific exercises off the bike to complement the time on it? Would mineral tablets make a difference? Is there something I should be increasing or decreasing in my diet? Or is it normal not to be able to do this more than three times a week, evenly spaced out?
The other puzzling thing is that there seems to be more of an effect if I space the riding? I can fairly comfortably put in 45-50 miles in a single ride starting from rested legs, but doing it in chunks of 15-16 miles seems if anything to have more of an impact in the later miles than doing it all in one hit.
I just don't understand why???
I've only ridden 65 miles this week, and that's been split evenly over my commutes in and out yesterday and Monday. I hadn't ridden since Thursday before that. Yes, I'm on the heavier side of average for the cycling community, but on the other hand, I've been commuting regularly over this distance for the last year or so, and whilst I had a lot of early improvement, it just seems to have plateaued.
Should I be doing specific exercises off the bike to complement the time on it? Would mineral tablets make a difference? Is there something I should be increasing or decreasing in my diet? Or is it normal not to be able to do this more than three times a week, evenly spaced out?
The other puzzling thing is that there seems to be more of an effect if I space the riding? I can fairly comfortably put in 45-50 miles in a single ride starting from rested legs, but doing it in chunks of 15-16 miles seems if anything to have more of an impact in the later miles than doing it all in one hit.
Kermit power said:
I'm going to get the train in today anyway, as my new saddle has left me feeling like a small boy in a Catholic orphanage, but even setting that aside, I would've been considering the train because my legs just don't feel up to riding. I know they'd get me there, but I also know it would be a frustrating, uncomfortable experience.
I just don't understand why???
I've only ridden 65 miles this week, and that's been split evenly over my commutes in and out yesterday and Monday. I hadn't ridden since Thursday before that. Yes, I'm on the heavier side of average for the cycling community, but on the other hand, I've been commuting regularly over this distance for the last year or so, and whilst I had a lot of early improvement, it just seems to have plateaued.
Should I be doing specific exercises off the bike to complement the time on it? Would mineral tablets make a difference? Is there something I should be increasing or decreasing in my diet? Or is it normal not to be able to do this more than three times a week, evenly spaced out?
The other puzzling thing is that there seems to be more of an effect if I space the riding? I can fairly comfortably put in 45-50 miles in a single ride starting from rested legs, but doing it in chunks of 15-16 miles seems if anything to have more of an impact in the later miles than doing it all in one hit.
Depends on what you want to achieve.I just don't understand why???
I've only ridden 65 miles this week, and that's been split evenly over my commutes in and out yesterday and Monday. I hadn't ridden since Thursday before that. Yes, I'm on the heavier side of average for the cycling community, but on the other hand, I've been commuting regularly over this distance for the last year or so, and whilst I had a lot of early improvement, it just seems to have plateaued.
Should I be doing specific exercises off the bike to complement the time on it? Would mineral tablets make a difference? Is there something I should be increasing or decreasing in my diet? Or is it normal not to be able to do this more than three times a week, evenly spaced out?
The other puzzling thing is that there seems to be more of an effect if I space the riding? I can fairly comfortably put in 45-50 miles in a single ride starting from rested legs, but doing it in chunks of 15-16 miles seems if anything to have more of an impact in the later miles than doing it all in one hit.
If you want to get faster then you're going to have to ride with faster people and/or do a bit of turbo work to increase power and aerobic capacity. Stay hydrated and remember that most training is better 65- 85% of MHR, below 65% (i think) doesn't have much impact, do you use a HRM? One thing that helped me was joining a club and learning from others. I found that I wasn't peddling fast enough which made a big difference in the beginning but now I am leaning towards pushing bigger gears as my legs are starting to get stronger. Set your personal goals whether it be a time on a commute or reaching a certain level in a competition. Lastly dont worry so much about progress, focus on actually enjoying cycling just for the hell of it. Quality miles are better than quantity IMO.
My own plan at the moment is; mon - rest, tue - commute, wed commute then chaingang or turbo, thurs - commute, fri - rest, Sat - club/race, Sun club/race.
HTH
Cheers guys. Just to add a couple of points based on the replies...
Fluid intake - I don't like tea or coffee, so the vast majority of my intake is either plain water or squash (without added sugar, if that makes a difference) and typically 3 to 4 litres per day.
Heart rate - Yes, I do use a monitor. My commute home yesterday, which wasn't a quick one, came up with the following (against a theoretical MHR of 179):
Z2 - Moderate.........105-139..........25:40..........35%
Z3 - Tempo............139-156..........37:08..........50%
Z4 - Threshold........156-173..........11:13..........15%
Cadence - Average cadence was 74rpm, but bear in mind I have 81 sets of traffic lights on that commute, so there's a lot of speed modulation approaching and departing from lights. My cruising cadence is between 90 and 100 typically.
I'm starting to think diet is the most probable culprit, so I guess I need to figure out what should be in/out.
Fluid intake - I don't like tea or coffee, so the vast majority of my intake is either plain water or squash (without added sugar, if that makes a difference) and typically 3 to 4 litres per day.
Heart rate - Yes, I do use a monitor. My commute home yesterday, which wasn't a quick one, came up with the following (against a theoretical MHR of 179):
Z2 - Moderate.........105-139..........25:40..........35%
Z3 - Tempo............139-156..........37:08..........50%
Z4 - Threshold........156-173..........11:13..........15%
Cadence - Average cadence was 74rpm, but bear in mind I have 81 sets of traffic lights on that commute, so there's a lot of speed modulation approaching and departing from lights. My cruising cadence is between 90 and 100 typically.
I'm starting to think diet is the most probable culprit, so I guess I need to figure out what should be in/out.
Edited by Kermit power on Wednesday 4th April 10:23
Interesting topic, which I look forward to reading some answers from some of the more experienced chaps!
I find that if I cycle every day and then a long (30-40 mile) ride at the weekend, by the end of the week my legs don't want to work - even just sat at desk. I've tried pushing through it before, and just riding on, but feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I find a couple of rest days sorts them out and I'm fine again, probably similar to how you're finding it I imagine.
I find that if I cycle every day and then a long (30-40 mile) ride at the weekend, by the end of the week my legs don't want to work - even just sat at desk. I've tried pushing through it before, and just riding on, but feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I find a couple of rest days sorts them out and I'm fine again, probably similar to how you're finding it I imagine.
If you do not have rest days you do not give your body a chance to make the physiological changes that make you 'fitter'. You need to rest to put on new leg muscle/replenish glycogen stores/allow new capillaries to form in muscle tissues etc.
When you train, train hard, but you must allow yourself to recover.
If you insist on training everyday, vary the muscle groups you use, e.g. try a rowing machine between cycling sessions. A rest day is still advisable here.
When you train, train hard, but you must allow yourself to recover.
If you insist on training everyday, vary the muscle groups you use, e.g. try a rowing machine between cycling sessions. A rest day is still advisable here.
You are probably capable of more than you think you are.
Whilst you do need recovery days, a couple a week is plenty and you ought to be able to cycle 5-6 days a week without falling apart.
Commuting is non-competitive (or should be) so you ought to be able to lower the intensity to get through it.
I know a few people who do 250km a week commuting (which would be your commute 5 days a week) and they're not super athletes, they just don't go balls out every day.
I've personally found that commuting every day is easier than 3 days a week. Well, the first 3 months was tough then it got easier.
Whilst you do need recovery days, a couple a week is plenty and you ought to be able to cycle 5-6 days a week without falling apart.
Commuting is non-competitive (or should be) so you ought to be able to lower the intensity to get through it.
I know a few people who do 250km a week commuting (which would be your commute 5 days a week) and they're not super athletes, they just don't go balls out every day.
I've personally found that commuting every day is easier than 3 days a week. Well, the first 3 months was tough then it got easier.
A friend of mine coaches GB at one of the running events and she always says that recovery is at least as important as the exercise, and that the exercise needs to build up through phases and incorporate planned rest phases otherwise you just fatigue your body over time.
Lots on PPOnline
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/overtraining.htm
Lots on PPOnline
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/overtraining.htm
rhinochopig said:
A friend of mine coaches GB at one of the running events and she always says that recovery is at least as important as the exercise, and that the exercise needs to build up through phases and incorporate planned rest phases otherwise you just fatigue your body over time.
That's true, but there's a big difference between being under-recovered and overtrained. Proper overtraining is like complete system shutdown and requires weeks to months of very little exercise to recover from.The whole point of training is to push your body beyond what's comfortable and then recover. If you only ride when fresh you'll never improve much.
There are systematic ways to detect early symptoms of overtraining, like tracking resting heart rate.
HundredthIdiot said:
That's true, but there's a big difference between being under-recovered and overtrained. Proper overtraining is like complete system shutdown and requires weeks to months of very little exercise to recover from.
The whole point of training is to push your body beyond what's comfortable and then recover. If you only ride when fresh you'll never improve much.
There are systematic ways to detect early symptoms of overtraining, like tracking resting heart rate.
Of course, I was mere pointing the need for a proper considered phased programme. Perhaps a link to the articles on phasing / etc. would have been more apt.The whole point of training is to push your body beyond what's comfortable and then recover. If you only ride when fresh you'll never improve much.
There are systematic ways to detect early symptoms of overtraining, like tracking resting heart rate.
Anyway, OP have a look on PP online for some good articles on how to get the best out of your training.
Kermit power said:
Mine has dropped from around 75 to around 60 since I started cycling last year, but I'm assuming that's a good thing? Recovery times have also plummeted.
You do need to look at how you are exercising though. If you are doing the same commute week in week out with similar weekend rides then you could start to suffer with fatigue. It's worth setting out a plan - where practical - that has heavy and light phases to it so that you keep moving forward; if nothing else it helps immensely psychologically. Kermit power said:
Mine has dropped from around 75 to around 60 since I started cycling last year, but I'm assuming that's a good thing? Recovery times have also plummeted.
Yes, down is good. When RHR goes up it's a sign of overtraining.It is worth bearing in mind that pro cyclists train/race for 25 hours a week, and many amateurs do 15. Provided that you eat properly, sleep properly and don't ramp up too quickly there's no reason any normal person can't cycle for 10-12 hours a week without feeling wrecked.
The way i'm coached is simple, we train very very intense then day off doing nothing, we do 3 week batches with 1 weeks adapt so 4 week cycles.
mon - rest
Tue - Hardcore session
Wes - rest
Thur - Hardcore session
Fri - rest
Sat - Hardcore session
Sun - Steady work 2-4 hours
Week 4 *adapt* mostly steady rest sessions with a V02 test ( 100% flat out FTP tests, they take me to hell and back not nice ) to see where we are
We just training Peaks that shows me how fit/rested/powerful i am, it monitors how tried i get and training is adjusted to suit etc
This is race training tho so rest days are very important, without i'd be burnt out in weeks..
mon - rest
Tue - Hardcore session
Wes - rest
Thur - Hardcore session
Fri - rest
Sat - Hardcore session
Sun - Steady work 2-4 hours
Week 4 *adapt* mostly steady rest sessions with a V02 test ( 100% flat out FTP tests, they take me to hell and back not nice ) to see where we are
We just training Peaks that shows me how fit/rested/powerful i am, it monitors how tried i get and training is adjusted to suit etc
This is race training tho so rest days are very important, without i'd be burnt out in weeks..
Edited by superkartracer on Wednesday 4th April 12:26
Rob_T said:
clealry i don't know you, but could it be your age is catching up on you?
Were it not for the fact that I've been significantly fatter and unfitter and am now moving in the other direction, I'd be inclined to agree. I'm only 41, and don't have a golden period as a chiselled athlete to compare myself to! 
superkartracer said:
The way i'm coached is simple, we train very very intense then day off doing nothing, we do 3 week batches with 1 weeks adapt so 4 week cycles.
mon - rest
Tue - Hardcore session
Wes - rest
Thur - Hardcore session
Fri - rest
Sat - Hardcore session
Sun - Steady work 2-4 hours
Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but how long are your hardcore sessions and what do you do in them? How many hours total in the week? Do you measure TSS for these workouts?mon - rest
Tue - Hardcore session
Wes - rest
Thur - Hardcore session
Fri - rest
Sat - Hardcore session
Sun - Steady work 2-4 hours
I think there is reasonable consensus on "ideal" training patterns that are well-studied and backed by decades of coaching experience, but many normal cyclists (particularly with demanding jobs and families) would struggle to fit these in around life.
For instance, the Wattage people don't claim to have much data about twice-daily training (split sessions) but I know one successful amateur (cat 1) who was doing these before and after work throughout the week with great results.
Stretching, good sleep, good food and not too much rest. But have some.
I've been doing 175-300 miles a week for the last 6 months. I don't really ever ride easy as such, but after a very hard solo ride or race I'll have a more relaxed commute to spin the legs. But you will often find that the day after a threshold effort you'll be able to go even harder.
I have one full rest day a week if everything is going to plan. It's not your age as plenty of racers are fecking quick well into their late 40's.
That said one mans training will not work for another. I ride with a guy that doesn't have rest days, he trains every day, and usually to a high intensity too. It works for him. It wouldn't for me.
When it gets really tough is when you ride long and hard, then do long and hard again, it's a real killer. But if you do two hard on the bounce and one is shorter I've found you can be very effective.
I did 30 hard miles before I got dropped in a race at the weekend, I felt a bit I'll too. The next day I went out and smashed it round out 3 hills training route of 41 miles in under two hours. The body is capable of a LOT more than 100 miles a week, so something isn't right with your current regime. Usually food and sleep.
I've been doing 175-300 miles a week for the last 6 months. I don't really ever ride easy as such, but after a very hard solo ride or race I'll have a more relaxed commute to spin the legs. But you will often find that the day after a threshold effort you'll be able to go even harder.
I have one full rest day a week if everything is going to plan. It's not your age as plenty of racers are fecking quick well into their late 40's.
That said one mans training will not work for another. I ride with a guy that doesn't have rest days, he trains every day, and usually to a high intensity too. It works for him. It wouldn't for me.
When it gets really tough is when you ride long and hard, then do long and hard again, it's a real killer. But if you do two hard on the bounce and one is shorter I've found you can be very effective.
I did 30 hard miles before I got dropped in a race at the weekend, I felt a bit I'll too. The next day I went out and smashed it round out 3 hills training route of 41 miles in under two hours. The body is capable of a LOT more than 100 miles a week, so something isn't right with your current regime. Usually food and sleep.
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