Centre-pull cantilevered vs disc brakes

[Kermit power]

Hi all,

Having to wait until April until I can get into our cycle to work scheme is driving me nuts, and I keep coming up with more and more questions as to what sort of bike I want!

I know I want dropped bars and pannier rack mounts. I'm pretty sure I want a triple chainset, although a compact twin with a long cage rear mech and an 11-32 cassette is another option. It needs to be robust enough for commuting into London with a heavy laptop bag and spare clothes, but light enough to enjoy riding around the Surrey Hills on the weekend - subject to my continued improvement in fitness!

The one thing that I know with absolute certainty is that I want something which works better than my current Shimano 105 brakes in the wet.

All of this got me thinking that I'm probably looking at a decent cyclocross bike (budget will be up to £2k on cycle to work), which then leads me to the point of this thread, which is to ask people's opinions on centre-pull cantilevered brakes as opposed to disc brakes.

I had assumed from the relative rarity of disc brakes on even the more expensive bikes that it was thought that cantilevered brakes were close enough to disc brake performance that it's not worth adding the extra weight of discs. However, I've just read an article that says that disc brakes are banned from cyclocross races under UCI regulations, so now I'm not so sure!

Any thoughts? At this rate I'm going to end up having to get some sort of Frankenstein's monster custom build done to satisfy my desires.

[RRS_Staffs]

Discs have been verboten on CX bikes

There may or may not be movement on this

Cotic have sold their X crosser with discs for about a year
In my opinion it looks the business in orange
If you dont race it then does it matter?

On the other hand the Cotic X does seem to split opinion

COI:

Bike nut
Have a Cotic MTB

[Jimbo.]

I despise cantis: powerful enough once you've set them up, but an utter arse to set up in the first place. FWIW there's nothing wrong with (105 or any) rim brakes, again once set up right, maintained and with good cables, pads, clean rims etc.

Disc brakes are now legal in UCI-sanctioned CX races. Not that it matters a jot to the average Joe on the street/in the mud, aside from manufactures now having an incentive to develop and sell them.

For what you describe, a Genesis Croix de Fer will be perfect:
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/cross/croix-de...

If it'll get Vin Cox around the world in record time, it'll get you to work and around Surrey OK.

Edited by Jimbo. on Wednesday 14th September 22:51

[BliarOut]

Canti's can be more st than a very st thing unless you set the angles up perfectly

Good article on it on Sheldon Brown's pages

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html

[Kermit power]

Thanks all, that confirms my thoughts. I was just confused as to why cyclocrossers wouldn't automatically favour discs until seeing that they weren't allowed them!

[anonymous-user]

I've been using a Kona Jake for just over a year for the same uses as you described. I find the cantelever brakes more than acceptable, I have not needed to adjust them in this time. The Kona is my favourite bike, I had a Boardman Comp roadbike but sold it as I always chose the Kona even for 60+ mile Sunday morning rides in quite hilly terrain in the South Chilterns, brakes were just fine...

[BliarOut]

You should try hydraulic discs then, stoppies are a doddle

[anonymous-user]

discs are heavy and you tend not to need them for long in cx races

as for the bike, i would look at a kenesis crosslight with tiagra, you dont need to spend a lot of money on a good cx bike, most people use a lower end groupset becuase they cope better with abuse and heavioy loaded shifting and a set of handbuilt wheels should be less than £250.

however, if you have a burning desire to drop £2k on it, then go see what engima have on offer...

[anonymous-user]

I have hydraulic disks on my MTB. Sure they are far better than cantilevers, but I dont really need the extra stopping power on roads/trails which is what I use the CX for! The Jake has Tiagra all round including hubs. It just works, in a totally reliable & fuss free way.

[Kermit power]

pablo said:

discs are heavy and you tend not to need them for long in cx races

I am heavy too, so the extra weight won't make much difference!

The place I have in mind as most requiring disc brakes is Clapham High Street in the rain when white van man pulls across in front of me.

pablo said:

however, if you have a burning desire to drop £2k on it, then go see what engima have on offer...

This is the curse of the cycle to work scheme! I know with absolute certainty that I don't have to spend £2k, but then I think about the amount of money the tax man wouldn't be getting, and feel an absolute duty to do so!

[Kermit power]

Jimbo. said:

I despise cantis: powerful enough once you've set them up, but an utter arse to set up in the first place. FWIW there's nothing wrong with (105 or any) rim brakes, again once set up right, maintained and with good cables, pads, clean rims etc.

My struggle is keeping the rims clean commuting 3-4 times per week on London roads covered in crap.

[Rob_T]

you have summed perfectly my requirements a few months ago. i wanted a cycle to work bike that i could also use as a winter trainer for my area (chilterns). I was adamant i wanted disc brakes as having just bought a mtb with discs the stopping power compared to the crappy 105's on my road bike was just unbelievable. i trudged around the shops and started making enquiries, and it became clear that getting special pannier and mudguard fittings with discs was tricky. also bikes with the discs were slightly more expensive and having ridden 'commuter types' with canti's and discs my desire for discs soon disappeared. my final choice was the previously mentioned genesis croix de fer and genesis vapour. ended up with the vapour as i preferred the colour (matt black). bonus it was a bit cheaper and racks and mudguards sit on it no problem. the canti's work absolutely fine, i totally rate them. commute to work is fine on road / path / gravel / field and a 10% climb on knobbly tyres. in my view the vapour ticks all the boxes. been 'commuting' for one week and one day now, and it's the best way to start and end the day...

don't get hung up on the discs...

[Roman]

Orbea used to offer the Diem Drop for £1,500 (not sure if they still do) - carbon road bike with discs, triple, rack mounts & 28c tyres:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/...

I quite like the Kona Honky Inc too:
http://www.ashcycles.com/site/index.php?main_page=...

[Kermit power]

Roman said:

Orbea used to offer the Diem Drop for £1,500 (not sure if they still do) - carbon road bike with discs, triple, rack mounts & 28c tyres:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/...

Aah! The second paragraph of that review sums up my situation perfectly. My commute is 15 miles each way into Central London up the A24/A3, with 70 sets of traffic lights in the last 8 miles, plus countless dozens of side roads joining the main road all the way along.

The amount by which I have to drop my speed when it's raining because of this is enough to make the extra weight of discs worth it, as even with clean rims my stopping distance on rim brakes shoots up, whereas my MTB would be barely affected.

It's not so much the planned early braking as the emergency stop scenarios that are prompting this.

[Kermit power]

Ooh. This looks interesting.

Anyone run an Alfine hub?

[rhinochopig]

I run avid rim brakes on my winter MTB. They were a doddle to set up ( I really don't get why people say they're hard?), offer more than enough stopping power in the wet and the mud for me (16 stone). They certainly offer enough power to send you over the bars if you wish. The only benefit that discs offer is that they are more consistent in feel - important if you're doing tricky wet off road routes where you need some careful modulation. The rim brakes are also massively lighter too.

[Roman]

'V's or 'Mini V's are much better than cantis in my experience. As has been said, cantis need to be set up perfectly to work well. Disc brakes are going to become increasingly popular for road bikes and I wouldn't be surprised to see the pros using them in future.

[Gnarlybluesurf]

Ok this is a situation I know reasonably well as my commute is similar to yours and having run a Boardman Hybrid Pro (disc brakes) and an Planet X Uncle John (canti's) I can appreciate why you're keen on disc brakes.

The important thing to consider is the size of tyres you're running as from experience you'll out brake a 28c commuter tyre with disc brakes i.e. the disc will lock but the tyre will carry on skidding. Minimum Brakes you want are Avid BB7's they work with drop bars and are effective.

For this reason I think the Genesis Crois de Fer not to be as good as a commuter as it can just take a 32c (from genesis) but then there's no room for mudguards should you want them in the winter and I am unsure that you still won't skid. The Genesis Alfine looks to have greater clearance but you pay alot for the Reynolds 853 compared with the virtually identical Planet X... Why not save yourself £500 and get to choose your colour... (they do cycle to work)

http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPETVERSA11/on-one-p...




The Kona Honky Inc as mentioned is a great looking bike with shimano group 105 and Ultegra rear Derailleur and BB7's but again on discussion with Kona 32c is the largest tyre size WITH mudguards that the 2011 and 2012 bike can take (the 2010 white one had much larger clearances... they reduced it to make the bike more responsive)... Also I tried to buy one of these bikes last year and couldn't get hold of one anywhere.... you may have more luck in 2012.



Personally i'd go for something like this but is a bit harder to get hold of and not on C2W superlight frame, carbon disc forck, Sram force, Avid BB7, Fizik Arione Manganese saddle all for £1500 + a little hard work...



http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/360/boardman-road-pro...

You could get the cheaper Team version on C2W and then upgrade out of your own pocket should you wish...

Final thing to consider is getting cross-top levers... they give you an upright riding posistion v comfortable in commuting when looking out for traffic turninc and allow you to brake from the flat bar, this also comes in useful when trying to brake and steer with your right hand whilst signalling left with your left hand.... A worthwhile addition in my opinion...




Hope this helps... If you check out the videos from Eurobike on Bikeradar you will see lots of manufacturers are toying with disc brakes on their cyclocross bikes but the above are the only ones that you can actually buy at the moment... my guess is it's going to be another year or two before you can easily buy a full carbon cyclocross bike with Ultegra Di2 and Avid BB7's or similar..

P.s. I don't thing you can buy the orbea anymore and again it only took thin wheels from memory...

Edited by Gnarlybluesurf on Thursday 15th September 12:39

[Roman]

^ That Boardman looks great.

[mk1fan]

Kermit power said:

The place I have in mind as most requiring disc brakes is Clapham High Street in the rain when white van man pulls across in front of me.

Bear in mind there's only so much braking force you can put though the contact area of a road tyre. I run 160mm front and 140mm rear discs on my Inbred commuter (it has 700c wheels with 28 wide tyres) and find that more than enough. Indeed the rear is over braked and needs good modulation. I now run Avid Ultimates (hydraulic) brakes but originally used Avid BB-7s (cable). To be honest, I think changing to hydraulic [for this bike] was a mistake. The cable BB-7s were more than enough and gave realy good modulation in all conditions.

All the bikes I was thinking of have been linked to already.