Electric bicycles - who buys them?
Discussion
bmwmike said:
Maybe it depends on the type of motor? Mine is only 60nm. In the mid power mode, it only really amplifies what you put in using its torque sensor, so if you pedal like an old lady, you won't get anywhere. If you put the power in, you get power out, up to 15.5mph of course, but that gets me faster everywhere [inclines] compared to my old analogue mtb, and i'm putting more effort in (confirmed via heart rate, sweat rate, etc).
Of course, with any emtb, you can just stick em in boost and pedal lightly and not put any effort in, or turn the motor off and put 100% of your own energy in.
Thats the beauty of them i think.
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play. Of course, with any emtb, you can just stick em in boost and pedal lightly and not put any effort in, or turn the motor off and put 100% of your own energy in.
Thats the beauty of them i think.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
272BHP said:
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
Not on hills they can't. If you try one of the online calculators - 16mph even with no wind, a light bike and rider (~85kg system weight) up a hill of say 3% is still around 300w to maintain that speed or 4w/kg. If you have an FTP that good and can do 4w/kg that puts you in the very fit rider category. I'm a "decent" cyclist with an FTP of around 230w and no way I can climb above 15mph. Most modest hills I'm sitting at about 10mph, the real stinker ones I'm down to almost walking speed.The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
For comparison - A couple of years back I did the C2C on a boardman ADV 8.9e (minimal assist FAZUA bike). Crawleyside bank on the official route is about 1000ft of climb, its steep at the bottom and eases off a bit as you go up, but its generally regarded as a real leg buster. A young lad on a light weight boardman SLR 8.9 was riding with us, much fitter than me at the time. He passed me on the first part of the climb but couldn't hold what must have been 350w plus for him and I went past shortly after. He was a couple of minutes behind me at the top. Between me and the bike I'd have been 400w+ the whole way up.
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
stargazer30 said:
272BHP said:
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
Not on hills they can't. If you try one of the online calculators - 16mph even with no wind, a light bike and rider (~85kg system weight) up a hill of say 3% is still around 300w to maintain that speed or 4w/kg. If you have an FTP that good and can do 4w/kg that puts you in the very fit rider category. I'm a "decent" cyclist with an FTP of around 230w and no way I can climb above 15mph. Most modest hills I'm sitting at about 10mph, the real stinker ones I'm down to almost walking speed.The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
For comparison - A couple of years back I did the C2C on a boardman ADV 8.9e (minimal assist FAZUA bike). Crawleyside bank on the official route is about 1000ft of climb, its steep at the bottom and eases off a bit as you go up, but its generally regarded as a real leg buster. A young lad on a light weight boardman SLR 8.9 was riding with us, much fitter than me at the time. He passed me on the first part of the climb but couldn't hold what must have been 350w plus for him and I went past shortly after. He was a couple of minutes behind me at the top. Between me and the bike I'd have been 400w+ the whole way up.
TownIdiot said:
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
Yep, i think everyone is talking about different types of bikes, terrain, and types of cycling and trying to compare apples and oranges. If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
TownIdiot said:
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
Which is entirely my point - it is easier not faster. If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
272BHP said:
Which is entirely my point - it is easier not faster.
And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
If you are biking around the peak district with a bag full of stuff I can assure you it's both easier and faster! And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
However - again you are probably talking about a drop handlebar lightweight bike and I am talking about something more akin to a tourer - flat bars and a more upright style.
bmwmike said:
Respectfully disagree on the fitness, as I'm pretty fit (relative to my earlier years) and moved into an ebike and work just as hard, and still get a lot out of it. I sweat like crazy, max HR etc. It's just everywhere faster, not necessarily easier. I accept there are those that just boost everywhere and sometimes if the mood takes me I'll do that too, but used properly they can be an effective fitness tool as well as a lot of fun.
No need to respectfully disagree, I'm with you on that one so maybe my wording wasn't the best. I was alluding to the argument that some have stating an eBike isn't as good for your fitness, when as you correctly say... you can basically alter your approach to suit your needs. You could power everywhere in turbo mode which, ok if you're mega fit already it won't really help gain much more however if you dial the bike back a few clicks then nobody can say trying to get a full fat eBike up a long climb with minimal assist isn't a serious workout. I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
Davie said:
No need to respectfully disagree, I'm with you on that one so maybe my wording wasn't the best. I was alluding to the argument that some have stating an eBike isn't as good for your fitness, when as you correctly say... you can basically alter your approach to suit your needs. You could power everywhere in turbo mode which, ok if you're mega fit already it won't really help gain much more however if you dial the bike back a few clicks then nobody can say trying to get a full fat eBike up a long climb with minimal assist isn't a serious workout.
I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
Gotcha. Well said.
I can't stress/confess enough that I was one of those sceptics, but i'm utterly converted in all aspects of mountain biking - the climbs are better on an e, the downs are faster, they will go anywhere so great for exploring, and the trails are a good upper body workout too, something i never noticed on the old analogue mtb. Only downside i can think of is extra £ on consumables, chains especially, and lifting em over fences etc is a pain.
I have a few steep climbs near me, and I turn the motor off and pedal up to the top of the trig point, and i'm sweating like that scene on Airplane where he's trying to land the plane. My ebike is 24kg, my HT is 12.5kg, so motor off, the work out on the "e" is same gearing as the HT, but an extra 10 or so kgs.
Even on long climbs, you can alternate from off, to eco, to turbo, and you get a sort of hit workout.
Fantastic things, 3000 miles in on mine in 18 months.
Here's mine from a rainy yet warm day. I've no idea of the elevation gain (I've not enabled the Trek app yet) but in Eco only I burned through circa 80% of the battery in two hours of riding (climbing).
I'm starting to warm towards it
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Saturday 6th July 15:30
Davie said:
No need to respectfully disagree, I'm with you on that one so maybe my wording wasn't the best. I was alluding to the argument that some have stating an eBike isn't as good for your fitness, when as you correctly say... you can basically alter your approach to suit your needs.
True. I'm overweight and unfit, yet I can enjoy the pleasure of cycling to work on my ebike, whilst getting health benefits too. Sometimes I try and go as fast as I can up the very steep 2 mile hill on my way home, arriving home knackered, sweating and out of breath, that will have dome me some good. On a non ebike I can't even get an 1/8th of the way up that hill. Yes, if I stuck at it for a few months I probably could, but I don't want to and can't be bothered, I just want to be able to cycle up that hill instead of taking my car, and to decide on the day whether to put lots of effort in or just some effort. My ebike ticks that box.Fitted some 'gravel' tires to the eBike today, only went out for a quick ride around the local park. The motor assistance when you are doing sub 10 mph over grass/dried mud and than having to hit a sharp+short mount/slope is fab.
It must be decades since I've ridden a bike with tires that's suitable to go 'off road', and I have to say it was fun, and totally different from road riding where you are constantly just watching your average speed/power etc.
Didn't stay in the park for long though, as some local youths on cheap Halfrods specials turned up and started showing off bike skills a MAML on a far too expensive eBike cannot and shouldn't try to do
.
It must be decades since I've ridden a bike with tires that's suitable to go 'off road', and I have to say it was fun, and totally different from road riding where you are constantly just watching your average speed/power etc.
Didn't stay in the park for long though, as some local youths on cheap Halfrods specials turned up and started showing off bike skills a MAML on a far too expensive eBike cannot and shouldn't try to do
.Couldn't resist taking the bike out for a longer ride. Ended up in a field with some cows getting closer so got on the bike and leg it.
Amazing how some wider tires makes all kind of tracks exploreable. I've got zero comparisons to benchmark the Creo against for any off road use, but handled well. The front mini suspension was actually useful.
The fat tires weren't too bad on the road, probably 2-3mph slower rolling on the flat for the same power output. I'm not trying to win any races so it's not a massive issue.
Overall the Creo is fab bike, motor or not. Now I need to save up for some fancy wheels for the road tires that I've taken off the bike.
Amazing how some wider tires makes all kind of tracks exploreable. I've got zero comparisons to benchmark the Creo against for any off road use, but handled well. The front mini suspension was actually useful.
The fat tires weren't too bad on the road, probably 2-3mph slower rolling on the flat for the same power output. I'm not trying to win any races so it's not a massive issue.
Overall the Creo is fab bike, motor or not. Now I need to save up for some fancy wheels for the road tires that I've taken off the bike
.Richtea1970 said:
I’ve never been into road bikes but that Creo does look very nice.
I’ve just bought a Creo a month or so ago and it’s absolutely brilliant.I’ve also got a Levo but I haven’t touched that since, the Creo is that good and opened up my road cycling again even with a damaged knee (bad meniscus injury)
I’m riding 35-40 miles each ride, normally several times a week as a minimum and my recent longest was 71 miles, I was knackered but I did it!
It is a work of art and I love it!
I must admit to being confused about the need for a bike like the Creo - Commuter bikes and Mountain e-bikes? I absolutely see the point.
But a drop handle bar e-bike? I suppose I can see a tiny use case where people still want to go on group rides but struggle to keep up on hills but apart from that I really don't get it.
But a drop handle bar e-bike? I suppose I can see a tiny use case where people still want to go on group rides but struggle to keep up on hills but apart from that I really don't get it.
Richtea1970 said:
That’s brilliant, well done.
I’m a MTB’er and due to a slipped disc and subsequent surgery about 10 years ago my back is susceptible to suffering from a crouched riding position. How do you find the ride position on the Creo, is it very low?
I find it really comfortable and haven’t noticed if it’s high or low - it’s certainly different to my Levo either way.I’m a MTB’er and due to a slipped disc and subsequent surgery about 10 years ago my back is susceptible to suffering from a crouched riding position. How do you find the ride position on the Creo, is it very low?
I just enjoy the amount of miles I can now ride on tarmac/semi off-road and hills become easier and not dreaded!
I’ve lost just under three stone since Christmas (15st 3lbs to 12st 7lbs) and cycling has definitely helped along with a change of diet and excessive lifestyle!
Edited by HoHoHo on Monday 15th July 23:26
272BHP said:
I must admit to being confused about the need for a bike like the Creo - Commuter bikes and Mountain e-bikes? I absolutely see the point.
But a drop handle bar e-bike? I suppose I can see a tiny use case where people still want to go on group rides but struggle to keep up on hills but apart from that I really don't get it.
Alt - I ride most days and it happens to be alone simply for schedules, busy lives, mine or my pals.But a drop handle bar e-bike? I suppose I can see a tiny use case where people still want to go on group rides but struggle to keep up on hills but apart from that I really don't get it.
Rides don’t have to be group rides.
One of my pals is currently riding from Morzine home to Yorkshire on his own.
I think Roadies mentality maybe leads to group rides being the driver??
As he said :
“ I just enjoy the amount of miles I can now ride on tarmac/semi off-road and hills become easier and dreaded!”
I’m in this camp on my Gravel convert too
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