Electric bicycles - who buys them?
Discussion
272BHP said:
I can absolutely see why they put the limit at 15.5 mph as it has to cater for people of all ages and all abilities but it is a bit frustrating for seasoned cyclists who just want to get somewhere. I do wonder what a small motor like SL 1.1/Fazua/Bosch SX would feel like with the speed limit taken off.
The Fazua motor has no issues with maintain 20mph on the flat with abit of human input, bare-in mind my Boardman is 20kg+ running Marathon+ tires, so very much a commuter bike, and I do the commute in work cloths. I can barely hit 18mph average on my analogue Trek Madone, so to be able to average 19mph on the commuting run shows how much support these motors can/do give if allowed. 
Hugo Stiglitz said:
The XR5 tyres came off very quickly and yes it's mullet compatible... one of the deciding factors.
As for a poppy Rail. You would have to have some real confidence in those brakes and momentum.
It needs 4 pots upgrades.
They all do. Loads of ebikes are under-braked, tired, suspended etc to meet a price. They need DH carcass tyres, 4 pots and a burly fork to work with the extra weight IMO. As for a poppy Rail. You would have to have some real confidence in those brakes and momentum.
It needs 4 pots upgrades.
I really don't get the whole eBike debate / cheating...
Fitness wise... if you're at either ends of the scale, you'll get very different experiences. If you're overweight, unfit, struggling to ride due to injury or health then an eBike can be massively beneficial in opening up opportunity to ride and thus, exercise and progress. If however you're a super fit, slim, machine of a human then an eBike likely won't benefit you, you'll regress as it'll be less of a challenge.
As for the ride itself... there are opposing ends of the scale. If you relish in climbs, watts, heart rates and the like then you'll be happy on your analogue bike. Or if you like coming back down flicking massive tail whips, popping off things, moving a bike around in the air then you'll be happy on your analogue bike.
But... there's also the middle ground and that's where I am. I don't care about watts, I don't care about heart rates and I have no desire to kill myself on climbs and I'm not brave or skilled enough to fly a bike off huge jumps.
All I want to do is ride an MTB and enjoy it, scare myself, work hard and have a huge amount of fun from the moment my arse hits the saddle to the time it gets back off. I'm probably not getting massively fitter quickly but I'm not getting fatter. I'm not dying on climbs... or on the way back down.
I didn't get that from my analogue bikes.
Fitness wise... if you're at either ends of the scale, you'll get very different experiences. If you're overweight, unfit, struggling to ride due to injury or health then an eBike can be massively beneficial in opening up opportunity to ride and thus, exercise and progress. If however you're a super fit, slim, machine of a human then an eBike likely won't benefit you, you'll regress as it'll be less of a challenge.
As for the ride itself... there are opposing ends of the scale. If you relish in climbs, watts, heart rates and the like then you'll be happy on your analogue bike. Or if you like coming back down flicking massive tail whips, popping off things, moving a bike around in the air then you'll be happy on your analogue bike.
But... there's also the middle ground and that's where I am. I don't care about watts, I don't care about heart rates and I have no desire to kill myself on climbs and I'm not brave or skilled enough to fly a bike off huge jumps.
All I want to do is ride an MTB and enjoy it, scare myself, work hard and have a huge amount of fun from the moment my arse hits the saddle to the time it gets back off. I'm probably not getting massively fitter quickly but I'm not getting fatter. I'm not dying on climbs... or on the way back down.
I didn't get that from my analogue bikes.
It's only cheating if you're competing and there are separate categories for that.
Outside of that we're all just playing out on our bikes like we did as kids, it's not a competition, we're all just out playing.
So long as it's fun that's all that matters.
Outside of that we're all just playing out on our bikes like we did as kids, it's not a competition, we're all just out playing.
So long as it's fun that's all that matters.
Edited by bobbo89 on Tuesday 2nd July 21:57
Davie said:
I really don't get the whole eBike debate / cheating...
Fitness wise... if you're at either ends of the scale, you'll get very different experiences. If you're overweight, unfit, struggling to ride due to injury or health then an eBike can be massively beneficial in opening up opportunity to ride and thus, exercise and progress. If however you're a super fit, slim, machine of a human then an eBike likely won't benefit you, you'll regress as it'll be less of a challenge.
As for the ride itself... there are opposing ends of the scale. If you relish in climbs, watts, heart rates and the like then you'll be happy on your analogue bike. Or if you like coming back down flicking massive tail whips, popping off things, moving a bike around in the air then you'll be happy on your analogue bike.
But... there's also the middle ground and that's where I am. I don't care about watts, I don't care about heart rates and I have no desire to kill myself on climbs and I'm not brave or skilled enough to fly a bike off huge jumps.
All I want to do is ride an MTB and enjoy it, scare myself, work hard and have a huge amount of fun from the moment my arse hits the saddle to the time it gets back off. I'm probably not getting massively fitter quickly but I'm not getting fatter. I'm not dying on climbs... or on the way back down.
I didn't get that from my analogue bikes.
Respectfully disagree on the fitness, as I'm pretty fit (relative to my earlier years) and moved into an ebike and work just as hard, and still get a lot out of it. I sweat like crazy, max HR etc. It's just everywhere faster, not necessarily easier. I accept there are those that just boost everywhere and sometimes if the mood takes me I'll do that too, but used properly they can be an effective fitness tool as well as a lot of fun.Fitness wise... if you're at either ends of the scale, you'll get very different experiences. If you're overweight, unfit, struggling to ride due to injury or health then an eBike can be massively beneficial in opening up opportunity to ride and thus, exercise and progress. If however you're a super fit, slim, machine of a human then an eBike likely won't benefit you, you'll regress as it'll be less of a challenge.
As for the ride itself... there are opposing ends of the scale. If you relish in climbs, watts, heart rates and the like then you'll be happy on your analogue bike. Or if you like coming back down flicking massive tail whips, popping off things, moving a bike around in the air then you'll be happy on your analogue bike.
But... there's also the middle ground and that's where I am. I don't care about watts, I don't care about heart rates and I have no desire to kill myself on climbs and I'm not brave or skilled enough to fly a bike off huge jumps.
All I want to do is ride an MTB and enjoy it, scare myself, work hard and have a huge amount of fun from the moment my arse hits the saddle to the time it gets back off. I'm probably not getting massively fitter quickly but I'm not getting fatter. I'm not dying on climbs... or on the way back down.
I didn't get that from my analogue bikes.
bmwmike said:
Respectfully disagree on the fitness, as I'm pretty fit (relative to my earlier years) and moved into an ebike and work just as hard, and still get a lot out of it. I sweat like crazy, max HR etc. It's just everywhere faster, not necessarily easier.I accept there are those that just boost everywhere and sometimes if the mood takes me I'll do that too, but used properly they can be an effective fitness tool as well as a lot of fun.
My experience was entirely the other way around. its easier, not necessarily faster. Unless you live in a place with killer hills of course
272BHP said:
bmwmike said:
Respectfully disagree on the fitness, as I'm pretty fit (relative to my earlier years) and moved into an ebike and work just as hard, and still get a lot out of it. I sweat like crazy, max HR etc. It's just everywhere faster, not necessarily easier.I accept there are those that just boost everywhere and sometimes if the mood takes me I'll do that too, but used properly they can be an effective fitness tool as well as a lot of fun.
My experience was entirely the other way around. its easier, not necessarily faster. Unless you live in a place with killer hills of course
Of course, with any emtb, you can just stick em in boost and pedal lightly and not put any effort in, or turn the motor off and put 100% of your own energy in.
Thats the beauty of them i think.
bmwmike said:
Maybe it depends on the type of motor? Mine is only 60nm. In the mid power mode, it only really amplifies what you put in using its torque sensor, so if you pedal like an old lady, you won't get anywhere. If you put the power in, you get power out, up to 15.5mph of course, but that gets me faster everywhere [inclines] compared to my old analogue mtb, and i'm putting more effort in (confirmed via heart rate, sweat rate, etc).
Of course, with any emtb, you can just stick em in boost and pedal lightly and not put any effort in, or turn the motor off and put 100% of your own energy in.
Thats the beauty of them i think.
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play. Of course, with any emtb, you can just stick em in boost and pedal lightly and not put any effort in, or turn the motor off and put 100% of your own energy in.
Thats the beauty of them i think.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
272BHP said:
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
Not on hills they can't. If you try one of the online calculators - 16mph even with no wind, a light bike and rider (~85kg system weight) up a hill of say 3% is still around 300w to maintain that speed or 4w/kg. If you have an FTP that good and can do 4w/kg that puts you in the very fit rider category. I'm a "decent" cyclist with an FTP of around 230w and no way I can climb above 15mph. Most modest hills I'm sitting at about 10mph, the real stinker ones I'm down to almost walking speed.The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
For comparison - A couple of years back I did the C2C on a boardman ADV 8.9e (minimal assist FAZUA bike). Crawleyside bank on the official route is about 1000ft of climb, its steep at the bottom and eases off a bit as you go up, but its generally regarded as a real leg buster. A young lad on a light weight boardman SLR 8.9 was riding with us, much fitter than me at the time. He passed me on the first part of the climb but couldn't hold what must have been 350w plus for him and I went past shortly after. He was a couple of minutes behind me at the top. Between me and the bike I'd have been 400w+ the whole way up.
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
stargazer30 said:
272BHP said:
The problem is that 15.5mph is barely a few rotations from standing for a decent cyclist. Even on hills a decent cyclist is going faster than that. It is only when the gradient gets a bit tasty that the motor comes into play.
The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
Not on hills they can't. If you try one of the online calculators - 16mph even with no wind, a light bike and rider (~85kg system weight) up a hill of say 3% is still around 300w to maintain that speed or 4w/kg. If you have an FTP that good and can do 4w/kg that puts you in the very fit rider category. I'm a "decent" cyclist with an FTP of around 230w and no way I can climb above 15mph. Most modest hills I'm sitting at about 10mph, the real stinker ones I'm down to almost walking speed.The rest of the time as I said before you are pushing round a bike that is at least 50% heavier.
For comparison - A couple of years back I did the C2C on a boardman ADV 8.9e (minimal assist FAZUA bike). Crawleyside bank on the official route is about 1000ft of climb, its steep at the bottom and eases off a bit as you go up, but its generally regarded as a real leg buster. A young lad on a light weight boardman SLR 8.9 was riding with us, much fitter than me at the time. He passed me on the first part of the climb but couldn't hold what must have been 350w plus for him and I went past shortly after. He was a couple of minutes behind me at the top. Between me and the bike I'd have been 400w+ the whole way up.
TownIdiot said:
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
Yep, i think everyone is talking about different types of bikes, terrain, and types of cycling and trying to compare apples and oranges. If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
TownIdiot said:
Are we talking at cross purposes here?
If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
Which is entirely my point - it is easier not faster. If you want a serious ride then yes by all means go for the traditional bike.
If you want to get somewhere with less effort, or carrying a load of stuff or just want a day out enjoying yourself then by all means use electric
Yes I can ride to the pub on a Friday night in my fat bike, but it's a lot easier on the electric one and I can easily go the long way if I want without arriving as a sweaty mess.
I don't think it's cheating and there is no way I'd use a normal bike to go to the supermarket to pick up a couple of bags of shopping.
And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
272BHP said:
Which is entirely my point - it is easier not faster.
And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
If you are biking around the peak district with a bag full of stuff I can assure you it's both easier and faster! And yes I am talking about road bikes vs road e-bikes. If you are on a mountain bike then unless you are going downhill you are going to need all the help you can get!
However - again you are probably talking about a drop handlebar lightweight bike and I am talking about something more akin to a tourer - flat bars and a more upright style.
bmwmike said:
Respectfully disagree on the fitness, as I'm pretty fit (relative to my earlier years) and moved into an ebike and work just as hard, and still get a lot out of it. I sweat like crazy, max HR etc. It's just everywhere faster, not necessarily easier. I accept there are those that just boost everywhere and sometimes if the mood takes me I'll do that too, but used properly they can be an effective fitness tool as well as a lot of fun.
No need to respectfully disagree, I'm with you on that one so maybe my wording wasn't the best. I was alluding to the argument that some have stating an eBike isn't as good for your fitness, when as you correctly say... you can basically alter your approach to suit your needs. You could power everywhere in turbo mode which, ok if you're mega fit already it won't really help gain much more however if you dial the bike back a few clicks then nobody can say trying to get a full fat eBike up a long climb with minimal assist isn't a serious workout. I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
Davie said:
No need to respectfully disagree, I'm with you on that one so maybe my wording wasn't the best. I was alluding to the argument that some have stating an eBike isn't as good for your fitness, when as you correctly say... you can basically alter your approach to suit your needs. You could power everywhere in turbo mode which, ok if you're mega fit already it won't really help gain much more however if you dial the bike back a few clicks then nobody can say trying to get a full fat eBike up a long climb with minimal assist isn't a serious workout.
I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
I've had mine about a year now and whilst yes, my general fitness has improved... probably because I now actively ride it as much as it can whereas my analogue, I'd shy away from longer rides / hard climbs etc as I simply couldn't manage and thus I was getting frustrated and thus wasn't riding much. So, I'd say I'm fitter... not a huge difference and I'm sure if I'd stuck with my analogue and just dug deep / been more committed, by this stage I'd be much fitter but unlike some cyclists, I don't ride with fitness as a main focus hence I don't care if an hour on my eBike isn't as much cardio workout as an hour on an analogue. Not interested.
I have noticed my core strength / upper body strength has improved because the by product of a heavy eBike that can't pop off stuff as a previous poster alluded to, is that actually they can... you can, but it takes a bit more effort to get the bike to move around and in turn that's a serious workout in itself. But ultimately in the past year I've never once been out on my eBike and found myself thinking "sod this, this is grim" whereas my analogue left me feeling like that a lot. Yes, some will say more saddle time, more Zwift, more whatever but I haven't got time for that... and I have a very physical job so I'm pretty broken by 6pm. Difference is now, even feeling broken... I'll go get the eBike out for a quick hour lap of the woods after my kids are in bed.
This "cheating" garbage needs to stop...
Gotcha. Well said.
I can't stress/confess enough that I was one of those sceptics, but i'm utterly converted in all aspects of mountain biking - the climbs are better on an e, the downs are faster, they will go anywhere so great for exploring, and the trails are a good upper body workout too, something i never noticed on the old analogue mtb. Only downside i can think of is extra £ on consumables, chains especially, and lifting em over fences etc is a pain.
I have a few steep climbs near me, and I turn the motor off and pedal up to the top of the trig point, and i'm sweating like that scene on Airplane where he's trying to land the plane. My ebike is 24kg, my HT is 12.5kg, so motor off, the work out on the "e" is same gearing as the HT, but an extra 10 or so kgs.
Even on long climbs, you can alternate from off, to eco, to turbo, and you get a sort of hit workout.
Fantastic things, 3000 miles in on mine in 18 months.
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