Moving to SA - what should I expect?
Discussion
Hi there PHers,
In about a week and a half I am catching a flight from Heathrow to South Africa, to live with my ex-pat uncle for a few months. At the end of it I guess I'm going to have to decide where I want to live, whether I prefer it here or there. But anyway that's in the future.
I'd like to hear from some fellow car geeks what to expect when I'm over there. What are the roads like, what's the police presence and how harsh are they, what's the driving etiquette (I've heard you drive in the MIDDLE and simply move over when someone's passing you or coming the other way - madness!). All things like that. Any anecdotes or tips you'd like to share too are welcome!
I'm assuming my UK license will be valid over there for ages and that won't be a problem.
I'm moving to the Knysna area. Nice? Good driving roads are there? I have been before, but I was much younger at the time and obviously didn't fully appreciate these sorts of things...
If anyone's local it'd be great to meet up for a pint or something as I will be Billy no mates for a while at least.
Cheers,
Owen
In about a week and a half I am catching a flight from Heathrow to South Africa, to live with my ex-pat uncle for a few months. At the end of it I guess I'm going to have to decide where I want to live, whether I prefer it here or there. But anyway that's in the future.
I'd like to hear from some fellow car geeks what to expect when I'm over there. What are the roads like, what's the police presence and how harsh are they, what's the driving etiquette (I've heard you drive in the MIDDLE and simply move over when someone's passing you or coming the other way - madness!). All things like that. Any anecdotes or tips you'd like to share too are welcome!
I'm assuming my UK license will be valid over there for ages and that won't be a problem.
I'm moving to the Knysna area. Nice? Good driving roads are there? I have been before, but I was much younger at the time and obviously didn't fully appreciate these sorts of things...
If anyone's local it'd be great to meet up for a pint or something as I will be Billy no mates for a while at least.
Cheers,
Owen
Owen, welcome to the Wild West.
Speed limits are a helpful suggestion, and often not taken too seriously. That said, the stretch of road from Wilderness to Mossel Bay is heavily speed trapped. Driving etiquette in South Africa ranges from OK to downright lousy. You will learn that minibus taxis are a law unto themselves.
Knysna is absolutely beautiful. I visit there once a year in July to run a half marathon. Worth it for the totty alone, and the other scenery is just gorgeous too.
There are heaps of passes in the Knysna area so you will not go short of interesting driving.
monster
Speed limits are a helpful suggestion, and often not taken too seriously. That said, the stretch of road from Wilderness to Mossel Bay is heavily speed trapped. Driving etiquette in South Africa ranges from OK to downright lousy. You will learn that minibus taxis are a law unto themselves.
Knysna is absolutely beautiful. I visit there once a year in July to run a half marathon. Worth it for the totty alone, and the other scenery is just gorgeous too.
There are heaps of passes in the Knysna area so you will not go short of interesting driving.
monster
Sounds like a laugh 
I look forward to some good mountain passes and other driving roads - was going quite spare here up until I sold my car as every damn road is plauged with speed bumps, potholes and speed cameras.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do car-wise though. I don't have much money to spare on a car - R10,000 at most unless I get some part time work over there or something - so I don't know what I would be looking at. I was hoping it might stretch to a beach buggy! I'd rather avoid being stuck in yet another boring FWD hatchback as I've had my fair share of those over here.
Any other tips would be welcomed!
I look forward to some good mountain passes and other driving roads - was going quite spare here up until I sold my car as every damn road is plauged with speed bumps, potholes and speed cameras.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do car-wise though. I don't have much money to spare on a car - R10,000 at most unless I get some part time work over there or something - so I don't know what I would be looking at. I was hoping it might stretch to a beach buggy! I'd rather avoid being stuck in yet another boring FWD hatchback as I've had my fair share of those over here.
Any other tips would be welcomed!
Knysna is beautiful. You'll certainly enjoy the area and the country as a whole. R10k is not going to get you much of a car at all - cars here are more expensive than in the UK without exception. Second-hand prices tend to hold their value well due to high demand. Be prepared for being treated like a cow's udder - companies here milk everyone remorselessly. Supermarket-branded items are more or less equally priced to the brand-name varieties, for instance, no electricity or water supply competition, only 3 cellphone networks operate, and surprise!, their prices are almost identical. You can still only get a landline from the parastatal Telkom, even though the so-called second network operator was supposed to be up and running already. Every industry is run by cartels, from banks to car dealers to telecomms to supermarkets. ISPs are useless (without exception), there's a 3 gig cap on *monthly* downloads, speeds are atrocious. In knysna you'll likely get 56k access or 3G through the ruthlessly expensive cell operators. You'll find the quality of most things inferior (clothing, basic foodstuffs, etc) and pricier. The upside of course is fantastic scenery, more space than you'd imagine, wonderful coastline, great wine, fantastic beef and lamb. Petrol is considerably cheaper than in the UK (I think), and the weather's pretty good for the most part.
HTH
Ciao
Zak
HTH
Ciao
Zak
OwenK said:
Sounds like a laugh
I look forward to some good mountain passes and other driving roads - was going quite spare here up until I sold my car as every damn road is plauged with speed bumps, potholes and speed cameras.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do car-wise though. I don't have much money to spare on a car - R10,000 at most unless I get some part time work over there or something - so I don't know what I would be looking at. I was hoping it might stretch to a beach buggy! I'd rather avoid being stuck in yet another boring FWD hatchback as I've had my fair share of those over here.
Any other tips would be welcomed!
.I look forward to some good mountain passes and other driving roads - was going quite spare here up until I sold my car as every damn road is plauged with speed bumps, potholes and speed cameras.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do car-wise though. I don't have much money to spare on a car - R10,000 at most unless I get some part time work over there or something - so I don't know what I would be looking at. I was hoping it might stretch to a beach buggy! I'd rather avoid being stuck in yet another boring FWD hatchback as I've had my fair share of those over here.
Any other tips would be welcomed!
.
.
owen.
R10k won't buy you anything.
The least you could probably spend would be R20k, even then it would be a shed.
Car prices are very overpriced.
What you would send to the scrap heap here will be worth more than R10k in S.A.
South Africa is over rated, from the point of view that there are still people living elsewhere in the world who, looking at the good stuff it has to offer, are actually considering living there (something I regard as crazy!) It is simply too dangerous and unsafe; even if the streets were literally paved with gold, and money grew on trees, I doubt I could move back. I take my watch and gold chain off when out on the lash, if I know Im going to be walking in the street at night.
As has been said, the country is gorgeous, the people very nice indeed, the totty fantastic although you wont get laid easily or often due to the high number of people with aids (Birds are exceedingly fussy/careful, pulling a bird in the UK is a walk in the park, compared) and the food (especially meat) is also very very good! Its a terrific place to holiday. Youve got beaches and surfing too, interesting landscapes and creatures, but a shed load of problems which outweigh the good things.
Money: Making or earning it, this isnt easy. Car prices are Ridiculous - thats a +1 for the comments above! And most people dont tend to have a surplus of cash at the end of each month. Constant security problems. Everyone has been burgled at some point, and everyone has either been mugged (or murdered) or knows someone who has. I have a friend who is a paramedic, is nearly 30, and earns around £350 per month.
It would be very hard indeed, to earn enough rands to live a luxurious lifestyle especially where cars are concerned. What puts me off the country is the violence. Or just the lack of physical safety/security.
How motivated are you, with regards to starting your own business? As well as there being a lot of poor people, there are quite a few wealthy people too - usually business owners. My great great grandfather used to own a bank in South Africa, a wine farm, and was one of the first people in the Country to buy a car. Unfortunately for me, he went broke and lost his fortune. I quite like the idea of an almost endless supply of alcohol and money
The wine is good, inflation is not, and the banks will actually charge you to deposit money in your account.
re: driving, you drive in your lane, but pull over onto the hard shoulder to let people pass, someone correct me if Im wrong, but IIRC they dont have MOT's there either. Mainly because the majority of the population cant afford them and drive sheds. You'll see the very occasional car being pulled by a donkey when its so broken down it wont run, and the roads are rife with people driving death traps which would be given £0 zero value here in the UK.
In summary, you have some of the nicest roads, people, food and landscapes in the world mixed together with a brilliant climate, I'd move there tomorrow if it wasnt for the violence.
As has been said, the country is gorgeous, the people very nice indeed, the totty fantastic although you wont get laid easily or often due to the high number of people with aids (Birds are exceedingly fussy/careful, pulling a bird in the UK is a walk in the park, compared) and the food (especially meat) is also very very good! Its a terrific place to holiday. Youve got beaches and surfing too, interesting landscapes and creatures, but a shed load of problems which outweigh the good things.
Money: Making or earning it, this isnt easy. Car prices are Ridiculous - thats a +1 for the comments above! And most people dont tend to have a surplus of cash at the end of each month. Constant security problems. Everyone has been burgled at some point, and everyone has either been mugged (or murdered) or knows someone who has. I have a friend who is a paramedic, is nearly 30, and earns around £350 per month.
It would be very hard indeed, to earn enough rands to live a luxurious lifestyle especially where cars are concerned. What puts me off the country is the violence. Or just the lack of physical safety/security.
How motivated are you, with regards to starting your own business? As well as there being a lot of poor people, there are quite a few wealthy people too - usually business owners. My great great grandfather used to own a bank in South Africa, a wine farm, and was one of the first people in the Country to buy a car. Unfortunately for me, he went broke and lost his fortune. I quite like the idea of an almost endless supply of alcohol and money
The wine is good, inflation is not, and the banks will actually charge you to deposit money in your account.re: driving, you drive in your lane, but pull over onto the hard shoulder to let people pass, someone correct me if Im wrong, but IIRC they dont have MOT's there either. Mainly because the majority of the population cant afford them and drive sheds. You'll see the very occasional car being pulled by a donkey when its so broken down it wont run, and the roads are rife with people driving death traps which would be given £0 zero value here in the UK.
In summary, you have some of the nicest roads, people, food and landscapes in the world mixed together with a brilliant climate, I'd move there tomorrow if it wasnt for the violence.
Hey Vette 
Oooooh, the beaches, they are faaaantastic! The totty on them too! In my opinion, overall, SA is pretty much the single best/coolest country in the whole world for an english speaking person to live, with just one exception... that violence thingy.
I have one female friend here who I know, who was mugged at knife point. Just one! Whereas in South Africa, two close members of my family have been mugged at knife point and carjacked in the last several months alone on two seperate occassions. Chap tried to rape/grab my sister through a car window, another chap dragged my girlfriend into an alley and tried to rape her. Nearly everyone has a story of some sort.
Had several more female acquaintances who were either raped or escaped from attempted rape. EVERYONE has been burgled at some point. One friend 9 times. Most people do get mugged sooner or later. Our family knows several people who have been murdered, often the elderly. One of my mates even murdered (defence) someone who was trying to knife him, cops told him not to worry, chap deserved it. That was a few years ago, mind you...
Crime is Everywhere! If you have a wide social circle, every month someone will have a story (or two!) to tell. But wasnt Joburg the murder capital of the world, then cape town took the title?
I love South Africa, I think its Brilliant. Cant fault it except for the danger aspect. I suppose there are two points to be clear on, in lieu of the above:
1) It IS dangerous, very Very dangerous, despite what some might say.
2) But yes, you can play it relatively safe, and avoid a great deal of trouble by being sensible.
Its changed though matey. My friends dont/wont even go for strolls in the mountains anymore, not even groups of 4 or 5 are safe these days, its all changed. There is now someone with a knife or a gun... well, just about everywhere it seems. Groups dont offer the protection they used to. I'll explain why (as I understand it).
10 or 20 years ago, they would break into your place, threaten you, rob you and leave. Now they just break in and kill you regardless, and then get on with their robbing. It never used to be like that, they hav ejust become more desperate and fearless than ever before, and really dont give a monkeys about human life, not like they used to anyway.
Last time I was over there, we were musing how many people not only had razor wire and guard patrols around most apartment complexes now, but some friends have a two tiered guarded entrance too, inner and outer like a castle... AND on top of the razor wire, they had electric fences too! A simple 7 foot fence with spikes on the top used to do it, not anymore!
In the 4 weeks before and during my last visit, there were four incidents that I can recall, among my small family and friends. One burglary (Aunts alloys, which from memory cost R40k), one car jacking, one safe robbery (jewlery) and another attempted burglary. The latter (the burglary) occured inside the fort knox I just described, the place with two walls (inner and outer) and 2 sets of armed guards, razor wire, electric fence, burglar bars, alarms, panic buttons... mate caught a guy trying to break into his upstairs balcony window, having evaded security.
Every single home has burgler bars, gates and fences now (all complexes manned with guards, unless you live in a poor area) and many people on top of that also have that razor wire s
t too, with the electric fence option etc. And guard dogs. Yet none of them feel safe, and all of them get burgled. re: the dogs, walk down any residential street, you'll hear 50 dogs barking from top to bottom as they watch you go by. The blacks are as afraid of dogs as they are of snakes, so everyone has them (dogs not snakes).
Im 6'3 and with a mate who is 6'6, we were undecided whether we would get out of our car and walk the 40 metres to the front door of a strip club, as there werent very many people around. Armed security walked us back to the car, watched over us whilst we got in (Joburg). You dont get that in London unless you are a VIP, and the security walk wasnt for show either.
At another strip club, I tipped the bouncer on the way in (a days wages). Decided to stay late for a few dances when mate when home to kip. Bouncer stayed with me after closing on the street till mate picked me up. Asked my chum why, and the response was more or less "Because if he didnt, you'd be fking dead mate"
It really Really would be very unfair to suggest it wasnt a very dangerous place indeed, or to imply that areas in London are just as bad. They arent.
Just remembered something... in the month surrounding the time I was last there, there were 5 incidents not 4. My aunt had her handbag nicked from under her chair whilst eating. Handbag was tied to the chair, as is customary when you go out for a nice meal to 'relax' with friends.
Im really not having a go matey But do you reckon Ive said anything which is unfair, or incorrect?
Oooooh, the beaches, they are faaaantastic! The totty on them too! In my opinion, overall, SA is pretty much the single best/coolest country in the whole world for an english speaking person to live, with just one exception... that violence thingy.
I have one female friend here who I know, who was mugged at knife point. Just one! Whereas in South Africa, two close members of my family have been mugged at knife point and carjacked in the last several months alone on two seperate occassions. Chap tried to rape/grab my sister through a car window, another chap dragged my girlfriend into an alley and tried to rape her. Nearly everyone has a story of some sort.
Had several more female acquaintances who were either raped or escaped from attempted rape. EVERYONE has been burgled at some point. One friend 9 times. Most people do get mugged sooner or later. Our family knows several people who have been murdered, often the elderly. One of my mates even murdered (defence) someone who was trying to knife him, cops told him not to worry, chap deserved it. That was a few years ago, mind you...
Crime is Everywhere! If you have a wide social circle, every month someone will have a story (or two!) to tell. But wasnt Joburg the murder capital of the world, then cape town took the title?
I love South Africa, I think its Brilliant. Cant fault it except for the danger aspect. I suppose there are two points to be clear on, in lieu of the above:
1) It IS dangerous, very Very dangerous, despite what some might say.
2) But yes, you can play it relatively safe, and avoid a great deal of trouble by being sensible.
Its changed though matey. My friends dont/wont even go for strolls in the mountains anymore, not even groups of 4 or 5 are safe these days, its all changed. There is now someone with a knife or a gun... well, just about everywhere it seems. Groups dont offer the protection they used to. I'll explain why (as I understand it).
10 or 20 years ago, they would break into your place, threaten you, rob you and leave. Now they just break in and kill you regardless, and then get on with their robbing. It never used to be like that, they hav ejust become more desperate and fearless than ever before, and really dont give a monkeys about human life, not like they used to anyway.
Last time I was over there, we were musing how many people not only had razor wire and guard patrols around most apartment complexes now, but some friends have a two tiered guarded entrance too, inner and outer like a castle... AND on top of the razor wire, they had electric fences too! A simple 7 foot fence with spikes on the top used to do it, not anymore!
In the 4 weeks before and during my last visit, there were four incidents that I can recall, among my small family and friends. One burglary (Aunts alloys, which from memory cost R40k), one car jacking, one safe robbery (jewlery) and another attempted burglary. The latter (the burglary) occured inside the fort knox I just described, the place with two walls (inner and outer) and 2 sets of armed guards, razor wire, electric fence, burglar bars, alarms, panic buttons... mate caught a guy trying to break into his upstairs balcony window, having evaded security.
Every single home has burgler bars, gates and fences now (all complexes manned with guards, unless you live in a poor area) and many people on top of that also have that razor wire s
t too, with the electric fence option etc. And guard dogs. Yet none of them feel safe, and all of them get burgled. re: the dogs, walk down any residential street, you'll hear 50 dogs barking from top to bottom as they watch you go by. The blacks are as afraid of dogs as they are of snakes, so everyone has them (dogs not snakes).Im 6'3 and with a mate who is 6'6, we were undecided whether we would get out of our car and walk the 40 metres to the front door of a strip club, as there werent very many people around. Armed security walked us back to the car, watched over us whilst we got in (Joburg). You dont get that in London unless you are a VIP, and the security walk wasnt for show either.
At another strip club, I tipped the bouncer on the way in (a days wages). Decided to stay late for a few dances when mate when home to kip. Bouncer stayed with me after closing on the street till mate picked me up. Asked my chum why, and the response was more or less "Because if he didnt, you'd be f
king dead mate" It really Really would be very unfair to suggest it wasnt a very dangerous place indeed, or to imply that areas in London are just as bad. They arent.
Just remembered something... in the month surrounding the time I was last there, there were 5 incidents not 4. My aunt had her handbag nicked from under her chair whilst eating. Handbag was tied to the chair, as is customary when you go out for a nice meal to 'relax' with friends.
Im really not having a go matey
But do you reckon Ive said anything which is unfair, or incorrect?Well since posting this thread I've sold my car, packed my bags, flown over there, stayed 3 months, flown home, started a new job and paid off some debts and am now saving for a new car - so it's been quite a while since this thread was any use to me!
However feel free to carry on chatting in here if you fancy gents, be my guests
However feel free to carry on chatting in here if you fancy gents, be my guests
Even in the first post, I said I was only staying for a few months - that was always the plan.
Though originally I was intending to stay for 4 months rather than 3, but after 3 I had had enough - not so much with the place itself, which was great (in some respects), but just because I was sick to death of the relatives I was staying with! Turns out that surprisingly enough, our completely polar opposite personalities did not mesh well together when living in close proximity
Though originally I was intending to stay for 4 months rather than 3, but after 3 I had had enough - not so much with the place itself, which was great (in some respects), but just because I was sick to death of the relatives I was staying with! Turns out that surprisingly enough, our completely polar opposite personalities did not mesh well together when living in close proximity
OwenK said:
Even in the first post, I said I was only staying for a few months
You also said that in the end, youd need to make a decision on whether to stay or come back OwenK said:
I was sick to death of the relatives I was staying with!
Tis always the way
How would our newly returned SA expert rate the:
1) Steak & food
2) Women (looks/bods)
3) Laid back way of life and lots of braais!
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