Goodwood Revival - win at all costs?
Discussion
It wasn’t just the rain over the weekend that dampened some of my enjoyment of this years’ Revival.
There is so much to love about the spectacle that Goodwood lays on; the sense of occasion, the detail in set pieces and the incredible cars and racing. Conditions made it tough for drivers, but then that had the upside of treating spectators to some superlative displays of car control. There was also some hard racing, and some particular stand out instances of give and take. In the contests that Oliver Bryant & Sam Hancock (Sussex Trophy) and Andy Middlehurst & Martin Stretton (in the Glover) had, both Bryant and Middlehurst gave the eventual winner just enough room when committed that contact was avoided.
The RAC TT though was different. There seemed to be at least five cars that finished battle scarred from overtaking manoeuvres. At one point the commentators joked that it was like watching a Touring Car race, but it wasn’t that funny as it was all too true. It was good to see a time penalty applied, but I for one would like to see the Stewards take a firmer line. I know this is racing and that these are racing machines which regularly took knocks in period, but they are now historic machines and to my mind deserve more respect. I’d like to see a policy of longer time penalties for contact in overtaking, applied harshly if there is any doubt, and if necessary for both cars. Closing the gap too aggressively, too late, can be just as avoidable as too much of a “shoulder barge” pass on the inside. If that were the case, drivers in historic races would understand that “win at all costs” is not something that will be rewarded.
I wonder too if owners are possibly guilty of turning a blind eye to their damaged cars as the pros bring them to collect garlands and cigars. Maybe the bragging right of a Goodwood win is enough, or perhaps the extra dollars it adds to value. The entry list for the RAC TT is already a shadow of its former self from ten years ago and I’m not sure it is even the Blue Riband event at the Revival anymore. That may be as much to do with the former stars being deemed too valuable for their owners to risk racing, as much as the racing getting quicker and quicker. It would just be such a shame if the trend continues and the pool of cars that race gets narrower still. If Goodwood is invitation only, then perhaps a “sin bin” policy for a year or two for a car that damages others might help too.
Anyway, I’d better retire to pipe & slippers as clearly I’m just too soft on this subject, but I wanted to share my thoughts.
There is so much to love about the spectacle that Goodwood lays on; the sense of occasion, the detail in set pieces and the incredible cars and racing. Conditions made it tough for drivers, but then that had the upside of treating spectators to some superlative displays of car control. There was also some hard racing, and some particular stand out instances of give and take. In the contests that Oliver Bryant & Sam Hancock (Sussex Trophy) and Andy Middlehurst & Martin Stretton (in the Glover) had, both Bryant and Middlehurst gave the eventual winner just enough room when committed that contact was avoided.
The RAC TT though was different. There seemed to be at least five cars that finished battle scarred from overtaking manoeuvres. At one point the commentators joked that it was like watching a Touring Car race, but it wasn’t that funny as it was all too true. It was good to see a time penalty applied, but I for one would like to see the Stewards take a firmer line. I know this is racing and that these are racing machines which regularly took knocks in period, but they are now historic machines and to my mind deserve more respect. I’d like to see a policy of longer time penalties for contact in overtaking, applied harshly if there is any doubt, and if necessary for both cars. Closing the gap too aggressively, too late, can be just as avoidable as too much of a “shoulder barge” pass on the inside. If that were the case, drivers in historic races would understand that “win at all costs” is not something that will be rewarded.
I wonder too if owners are possibly guilty of turning a blind eye to their damaged cars as the pros bring them to collect garlands and cigars. Maybe the bragging right of a Goodwood win is enough, or perhaps the extra dollars it adds to value. The entry list for the RAC TT is already a shadow of its former self from ten years ago and I’m not sure it is even the Blue Riband event at the Revival anymore. That may be as much to do with the former stars being deemed too valuable for their owners to risk racing, as much as the racing getting quicker and quicker. It would just be such a shame if the trend continues and the pool of cars that race gets narrower still. If Goodwood is invitation only, then perhaps a “sin bin” policy for a year or two for a car that damages others might help too.
Anyway, I’d better retire to pipe & slippers as clearly I’m just too soft on this subject, but I wanted to share my thoughts.
I saw the race live from the comfort of my sofa,
I agree it was very heavy handed by Chris Ward in the etype, he basically got demoted to second place for his style of driving, I felt sorry for the guy who drove the second half of the race in that car as he did it cleanly.
Diving up the inside of a corner and clipping the car in front I can almost accept if done in the heat of the moment etc, but punting the Cobra off to get past in a straightish line was over the top.
Mr Ward did look quite sheepish in the pits when he heard about the 30 second penalty.
I would guess their will be fewer entrants if this style of driving continues, also I can't imagine JD Classics would want to be associated with this kind of behavior they have a great reputation for turning out quality cars, maybe it was just a Red mist moment from Mr ward .
I agree it was very heavy handed by Chris Ward in the etype, he basically got demoted to second place for his style of driving, I felt sorry for the guy who drove the second half of the race in that car as he did it cleanly.
Diving up the inside of a corner and clipping the car in front I can almost accept if done in the heat of the moment etc, but punting the Cobra off to get past in a straightish line was over the top.
Mr Ward did look quite sheepish in the pits when he heard about the 30 second penalty.
I would guess their will be fewer entrants if this style of driving continues, also I can't imagine JD Classics would want to be associated with this kind of behavior they have a great reputation for turning out quality cars, maybe it was just a Red mist moment from Mr ward .
Having spoken at length to a well-known driver at the Festival a couple of years back, I was under the impression that there is actually a policy of 'not being asked back next year' if avoidable contact is made (that results in damage). No idea to what extent this is true, as he does not come to Goodwood every year - but it was a very interesting chat nonetheless...
The racing was great this weekend. In reality the guys that don't want it tough or who would prefer to avoid contact could easily do so. The result is a few leading guys really going for it.
I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
streetscreamer said:
You want to see true racing, not a parade.
But too physical driving might withhold some teams in future for joining.
The event is mend to keep the glory of racing alive.
Difficult dilemma. ......
Not difficult at all; racing can be exciting and close fought without being a contact spor. VSCC competitors manage it well enough and with good reason, they risk being flipped out. It's a great shame that there are some tin top drivers who aren't as well behaved. But too physical driving might withhold some teams in future for joining.
The event is mend to keep the glory of racing alive.
Difficult dilemma. ......
Riley Blue said:
streetscreamer said:
You want to see true racing, not a parade.
But too physical driving might withhold some teams in future for joining.
The event is mend to keep the glory of racing alive.
Difficult dilemma. ......
Not difficult at all; racing can be exciting and close fought without being a contact spor. VSCC competitors manage it well enough and with good reason, they risk being flipped out. It's a great shame that there are some tin top drivers who aren't as well behaved. But too physical driving might withhold some teams in future for joining.
The event is mend to keep the glory of racing alive.
Difficult dilemma. ......
And yes, I've heard that drivers don't get asked back
And finally, it does seem the case in the RAC TT that one simply buys a Cobra and tunes it up these days. There were far too many but then I guess they have to fill the grid somehow.
Judging by the comments from various people around me in Chicane grandstand I'd say the St Mary's is the "blue riband" event these days.
He didn't make contact with another car but the 64 GTO that binned it seemed unnecessary.
From the YouTube that I've seen driver was going too fast ,wasn't going to make the corner or could also have stuffed the 250 LM
up the back ,so spun out and did the whole of the OS big damage.
From the commentary this was just qualifying and it was already holding provisional pole albeit by 0.1s.
From the YouTube that I've seen driver was going too fast ,wasn't going to make the corner or could also have stuffed the 250 LM
up the back ,so spun out and did the whole of the OS big damage.
From the commentary this was just qualifying and it was already holding provisional pole albeit by 0.1s.
Cold said:
How many of the cars on track are actually the cars mentioned in the programme rather than just looking like them?
There have long been rumours that at least one famous Cobra isn't the car that it purports to be but rather a replica while the real thing is safely tucked away.On topic I also watched the event from the comfort of my couch. The TT in particular has long had more than its fair share of contact and I recall that last year that very same E-Type tipped the leading Cobra off the track at high speed while being driven by Gordon Shedden who is of course well known for his driving tactics in the BTCC. It may well have been accidental but it could also have caused a very bad crash. Chris Ward hit at another Cobra at least twice in his efforts to pass this year before punting off the red one and therefore ruining its race. I was glad that a penalty was applied that denied them victory. For examples of how to race hard but not touch I will refer you to the two A40's in part one one and the Alfa/A40 duel in the St Marys races.
As for driving standards at Goodwood there at least used to be a policy of not inviting drivers back if they were unsporting or guilty of poor driving, the latter should apply to some of the appalling driving by some backmarkers at this year's event.
Olf said:
The racing was great this weekend. In reality the guys that don't want it tough or who would prefer to avoid contact could easily do so. The result is a few leading guys really going for it.
I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
I believe the Alfa was also driven by Chris Ward - if so will be seeing him next year?I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
Travs said:
Olf said:
The racing was great this weekend. In reality the guys that don't want it tough or who would prefer to avoid contact could easily do so. The result is a few leading guys really going for it.
I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
I believe the Alfa was also driven by Chris Ward - if so will be seeing him next year?I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
http://www.tsl-timing.com/event/173665/session/rc1...
Travs said:
Olf said:
The racing was great this weekend. In reality the guys that don't want it tough or who would prefer to avoid contact could easily do so. The result is a few leading guys really going for it.
I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
I believe the Alfa was also driven by Chris Ward - if so will be seeing him next year?I do hope the guy driving the smoking blue Alfa on Saturday had a good talking to. Ignored or didn't see a black flag for three laps - luck he didn't cause someone a real mischief with the oil he was laying down.
So another strategy is just to ban all Chris'.
I agree with the OP, deliberate contact should be punished severely; there is no place for it in any racing let alone the superb classic car scene especially the TT. I would love to compete in this race in a Cobra, anyone want to lend me a car 
I’m afraid though if I was punted off deliberately like that I would be making deliberate contact with the perpetrator in the pits afterwards!
I’m afraid though if I was punted off deliberately like that I would be making deliberate contact with the perpetrator in the pits afterwards!
Some very poor driving in all races. Perhaps it is the "gentleman racers" who are the problem.
I would guess the only answer would be to only allow those with some proper experience of such racing?
I would also add that the general standard of car park organisation was piss poor. Not the best Revival......
I would guess the only answer would be to only allow those with some proper experience of such racing?
I would also add that the general standard of car park organisation was piss poor. Not the best Revival......
Still not quite sure what happened to the A30/35 which got rear-ended in the previous race. It was well stuffed but there didn't seem to be another car with corresponding damage.
I was also surprised at how long it took the recovery. When a cab full of traffic wardens can have a miscreant car loaded and away in minutes, I felt all the 'roadside recovery' procedure was a bit slow for a race in progress.
I was also surprised at how long it took the recovery. When a cab full of traffic wardens can have a miscreant car loaded and away in minutes, I felt all the 'roadside recovery' procedure was a bit slow for a race in progress.
Dogwatch said:
Still not quite sure what happened to the A30/35 which got rear-ended in the previous race. It was well stuffed but there didn't seem to be another car with corresponding damage.
I was also surprised at how long it took the recovery. When a cab full of traffic wardens can have a miscreant car loaded and away in minutes, I felt all the 'roadside recovery' procedure was a bit slow for a race in progress.
This was at Woodcote where I was watching and I thought he just lost it under braking at the end of the straight and slammed it backwards into the tyre wall. The recovery process was a bit tedious.. .I was also surprised at how long it took the recovery. When a cab full of traffic wardens can have a miscreant car loaded and away in minutes, I felt all the 'roadside recovery' procedure was a bit slow for a race in progress.
Having now seen the Chris Ward "punt" on the Cobra on ITV4 ,I'm surprised he wasn't thrown out of the results completely.
It was the sort of thing I expect, but don't want to see ,in BTCC 2017.
The racing in both parts of the St Mary's Trophy for the saloons looked so much cleaner from the tv highlights ,with some
excellent racing particularly from Huff and Caine in their A40s in the 1st race.
It was the sort of thing I expect, but don't want to see ,in BTCC 2017.
The racing in both parts of the St Mary's Trophy for the saloons looked so much cleaner from the tv highlights ,with some
excellent racing particularly from Huff and Caine in their A40s in the 1st race.
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