S4S or late V8 ...which would you pick?
Discussion
It would be really helpful to hear some fresh views on this (somewhat old, I'm sure) debate; I haven't driven either, but have been thinking about getting one of these fro some time now. I like V8's in general, but I expect there's an argument for the purity of an S4S, with lower running costs. They look about the same, cost about the same... so I would love to hear from people who have driven both.
Hi, I'm not going to be able to help you much as I have only driven the V8. But I can honestly say it is the nicest engine in any car I have owned, and I have owned a few! It is however not very 'V8-like'. It loves revs and doesn't have that slightly out of balance drumming noise of the classic american V8 muscle cars - it sounds more like a racing 4cyl engine than a muscle car engine. I love it, but you would need to try one as it could be that what you (and indeed many others) love about V8s is in fact missing from this car.....
For me, the fact it WASN'T like a typical V8, is what sold the car to me...
HTH
Cheers,
Jerry
For me, the fact it WASN'T like a typical V8, is what sold the car to me...
HTH
Cheers,
Jerry
Buy the newest one you can possibly afford. This will mean v8 ownership. Ive had a four banger and V8. Everythings just newer more sorted and generally better on the later cars...... torque of the V8 is addictive even in std form.
As any car purchase, check out history and buy something fully serviced up.
As any car purchase, check out history and buy something fully serviced up.
Thanks for the feedback guys - I'm guessing there may be some truth in the S4S being the better drive, as the Sport300 is usually deemed better balanced than the Sport350 (http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/features/octane_features/249580/lotus_esprit_sport_300_vs_sport_350.html) for example - though exactly how far an S4S is from a Sport300, I'm not sure.
When you bought your Esprit, how did you decide which was the one? Do you just go with gut feeling? It would be great if I could take a look at the two, as research - is there anyone here in the UK that has both, that wouldn't mind a visit from an Esprit fan?
edit:"Essentially the S4s is a Sport300 in S4 clothing. The Sport300 engine with its 300bhp, enlarged inlet valves, modified cylinder head, re-calibrated ECM with higher boost (1.0 bar), increased capacity oil sump, Garret T3/60 turbo with enlarged compressor wheel, 300 horsepower is all there. It does not have the Lotus Limited Slip Differential of the Sport300, however."
When you bought your Esprit, how did you decide which was the one? Do you just go with gut feeling? It would be great if I could take a look at the two, as research - is there anyone here in the UK that has both, that wouldn't mind a visit from an Esprit fan?
edit:"Essentially the S4s is a Sport300 in S4 clothing. The Sport300 engine with its 300bhp, enlarged inlet valves, modified cylinder head, re-calibrated ECM with higher boost (1.0 bar), increased capacity oil sump, Garret T3/60 turbo with enlarged compressor wheel, 300 horsepower is all there. It does not have the Lotus Limited Slip Differential of the Sport300, however."
Edited by wildatheart on Wednesday 23 March 21:07
I looked into a Esprit a while back, may look again in the future
From what i picked up the inline 4's were supposed to be cheaper to run, as the engines and cooling systems were less complicated and easier to fix should things go wrong
I have an excel which is the same engine as the inline 4's more or less, except higher compression and no turbo....
Even with the higher compression and N/A setup the car does not generally make much if any real power below 2500RPM and is generally a bit grumpy if asked to pull a higher gear at lower RPM
I would imagine that despite the fuel injection taking some temperament out, the Turbo 4's with low compression pistons will not feel that fast unless the turbo is kicked in
The v8's on the other hand, are 3.5 litres and run only 2 small turbos, so they probably have a lot of low down grunt
Drive both and see which you prefer would be my advice
From what i picked up the inline 4's were supposed to be cheaper to run, as the engines and cooling systems were less complicated and easier to fix should things go wrong
I have an excel which is the same engine as the inline 4's more or less, except higher compression and no turbo....
Even with the higher compression and N/A setup the car does not generally make much if any real power below 2500RPM and is generally a bit grumpy if asked to pull a higher gear at lower RPM
I would imagine that despite the fuel injection taking some temperament out, the Turbo 4's with low compression pistons will not feel that fast unless the turbo is kicked in
The v8's on the other hand, are 3.5 litres and run only 2 small turbos, so they probably have a lot of low down grunt
Drive both and see which you prefer would be my advice
peter450 said:
the Turbo 4's with low compression pistons will not feel that fast unless the turbo is kicked in
The v8's on the other hand, are 3.5 litres and run only 2 small turbos, so they probably have a lot of low down grunt
Exactly how I would compare the two.The v8's on the other hand, are 3.5 litres and run only 2 small turbos, so they probably have a lot of low down grunt
The S4s felt lifeless off boost below 2700 but beyond there it did get interesting.
The V8 is just turbine like in its power delivery. It can make you lazy because it will just pull very strongly from just about any rpm in any gear.
Apart from items such as clutch, turbo feed pipes and double the number of cambelts, there is not so much difference in servicing costs.
As someone who has just purchased a 2001 V8 Esprit having driven a lot of cars up to a £30K budget I can assure you if you are after a combination of looks, performance and that big grin that driving something nice gives you then the V8 Esprit has it all.
If you just ignore all the hype and negative remarks that certain cars seem to have (Porsche etc) and just base your opinion on the driving experience which I have to say I have then the only car that comes close is the 996 911 Porsche Turbo its just a pity that the dealers who sell them are such a bunch of tossers. I have recently sold my very well sorted RX7 which I used regularly on track days and was looking for something to replace it, I am know conviced that the V8 Esprit was the right choice even as someone who is used to driving 50/50 balanced cars the Esprit has scared me twice with its brutal power delivery buy one it will probably cost you a lot of money to keep in tip top condition but its worth it.
If you just ignore all the hype and negative remarks that certain cars seem to have (Porsche etc) and just base your opinion on the driving experience which I have to say I have then the only car that comes close is the 996 911 Porsche Turbo its just a pity that the dealers who sell them are such a bunch of tossers. I have recently sold my very well sorted RX7 which I used regularly on track days and was looking for something to replace it, I am know conviced that the V8 Esprit was the right choice even as someone who is used to driving 50/50 balanced cars the Esprit has scared me twice with its brutal power delivery buy one it will probably cost you a lot of money to keep in tip top condition but its worth it.
I've owned an S4s and a V8 so I can compare the two based purely on ownership and drivability. I didn't rate the S4s, it's overhyped and it a tweeked S4 with wide arches. Not worth the premium in my book, stick with an S4 or GT3.
I would choose a V8 evryday. Ignor the people who sy the V8 is lazy and the S4s will out performance and out handle a V8, it's rubbish. By the time the turbo starts to spool up on an S4s the V8 has already gone. Mine's instant power and it also feels like a proper turbo too (you still get the kick in the back). Iam running on sports cats, uprated actuators and Green Cotton Filter so running about 400BHP.
When I first bought my V8, I had owned it for only two weeks and it was completely standard, unmodified. I attended a driver training day back in 2005 with 30 Esprits and 5 Elises. During the day, we did a time trailed slarlem course and the weather was terrible. It was absolutely pissing down all day. I would say Iam an everage to good driver with next to no trackday experience. I was the quickest on the day and the top 3 were all V8 GT's. I would say that the tight course and weather may have helped because the 4 pots couldn't really start boosting and then it was heavy on the brakes. I've owned my V8 for 6 years now but sold my S4s after only 11 months. I've also owned a HC Turbo, Stevens Turbo, S4, S4s and now a V8. I've also driven about 40-50 Esprits during my ownership and would keep coming back to the V8. Absolutely nothing wrong with the other models, it's just my preference for all round driving pleasure, build quality, engine noise, power delivery, handling, braking (much better with Kelsey Haines than Delco Moraine system).
Regards,
David Walters
I would choose a V8 evryday. Ignor the people who sy the V8 is lazy and the S4s will out performance and out handle a V8, it's rubbish. By the time the turbo starts to spool up on an S4s the V8 has already gone. Mine's instant power and it also feels like a proper turbo too (you still get the kick in the back). Iam running on sports cats, uprated actuators and Green Cotton Filter so running about 400BHP.
When I first bought my V8, I had owned it for only two weeks and it was completely standard, unmodified. I attended a driver training day back in 2005 with 30 Esprits and 5 Elises. During the day, we did a time trailed slarlem course and the weather was terrible. It was absolutely pissing down all day. I would say Iam an everage to good driver with next to no trackday experience. I was the quickest on the day and the top 3 were all V8 GT's. I would say that the tight course and weather may have helped because the 4 pots couldn't really start boosting and then it was heavy on the brakes. I've owned my V8 for 6 years now but sold my S4s after only 11 months. I've also owned a HC Turbo, Stevens Turbo, S4, S4s and now a V8. I've also driven about 40-50 Esprits during my ownership and would keep coming back to the V8. Absolutely nothing wrong with the other models, it's just my preference for all round driving pleasure, build quality, engine noise, power delivery, handling, braking (much better with Kelsey Haines than Delco Moraine system).
Regards,
David Walters
I chose the SE because I need to have air-con in the car and I am willing to sacrifice the bit of power loss that creates and the seats are very comfortable in the SE. I like the very late rear lights and will be getting mine done at some time, again I prefer the older wheels because my car has rather nice large shiny drilled discs which you can easily see through the 2001 wheels.
When I bought my RX7 I budgeted £3-4K for rebuilds/modifications in the end I spent about £7K in total but had a very quick car the V8 Esprit can potentially eat money as well so if you do buy one I think it would be wise to put aside a wad of cash (£3K) just in case it develops a blowing exhaust manifold and needs the engine taken out to sort it out , if that is the case you might as well have the cambelt done. I am sure there are many more experienced owners who could add to or correct my thoughts but this is how I see things.
When I bought my RX7 I budgeted £3-4K for rebuilds/modifications in the end I spent about £7K in total but had a very quick car the V8 Esprit can potentially eat money as well so if you do buy one I think it would be wise to put aside a wad of cash (£3K) just in case it develops a blowing exhaust manifold and needs the engine taken out to sort it out , if that is the case you might as well have the cambelt done. I am sure there are many more experienced owners who could add to or correct my thoughts but this is how I see things.
S4s and V8 are very different cars to drive and their appeal is subjective, it's a very personal thing. Only you can really make your mind up, drive both and see which one suits you, your driving style and what you want it for.
I arranged a test on track at Hethel between the best 4 pot vs the best V8, Sport300 vs Sport350. The conclusion was that the 300 was the best car around the track, the 350 would be the better GT. That's the opinion of one of Lotus' most senior ride & handling gurus based on his criteria, the point is that your criteria could be completely different.
I arranged a test on track at Hethel between the best 4 pot vs the best V8, Sport300 vs Sport350. The conclusion was that the 300 was the best car around the track, the 350 would be the better GT. That's the opinion of one of Lotus' most senior ride & handling gurus based on his criteria, the point is that your criteria could be completely different.
Very good point, I have to admit to not even considering the other models other than the V8 but again I was looking at Maserati's Porsche, AMG Mercs etc and chose the Esprit just on the overall package of looks, performance and handling anyway who needs traction control so many of these cars have so many driving aids you tend to forget about a good basic design from the start.
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