Do they exist ??
Discussion
Is there such a thing as a Lotus, '87 onwards, that has not had an enthusiast owner?. The type that trash, break, misuse, blunder and treat as an ashtray - Lotus' finest offering to the world?
If so, where would I find one of their cars? Yeah, yeah I know what you're thinking, but there is method to my madness here
Can someone please point me in the cars direction?
Regards.
If so, where would I find one of their cars? Yeah, yeah I know what you're thinking, but there is method to my madness here
Can someone please point me in the cars direction?
Regards.
You just looking for a shed of an esprit at a good price eh? If so, there was a Stephens in yellow at Club Lotus parts fair, held at Stoneliegh in November. The guy had taken it there to sell, but had totaled the engine on the way. The car was covered with oil and finger prints, and the price tag in the window had been slashed, to what I still thought was an expensive £4000. So, a visit to Donnington this weekend maybe a good place to start, pockets bulging with cash of course. Thinking about it, if your pockets are indeed bulging with cash, wanna buy an Elite? Never been any trouble, Honest!
>> Edited by simonelite501 on Monday 29th April 22:18
>> Edited by simonelite501 on Monday 29th April 22:18
Well Simon, Ive always wanted an Elite ever since 20 years ago a guy had one in my home town.... and there are 2 for sale in my area a 501 and 503. Can get them quite cheap too about 2400 pounds. But Im getting the hots for an Esprit. I have a very good workshop with all facilities and to rebuild one would be right up my alley as it were. So hence the want for a winter project. I would have handed over 4000 pingers there and then!! So if you hear of anything around ........
Remember me !!!!!!!
Remember me !!!!!!!
The problem you're going to encounter is this. If the car wasn't enthusiast owned, and was treated like an ashtray, you'll most likely end up overpaying for it regardless. When shopping for mine, I saw plenty that weren't treated properly. And their owners were charging way too much. Think about it. If these owners weren't willing to part with the proper repair and maintenance money, they certainly aren't willing to take a hit on their initial investment.
Also, in many cases, they bought them used, ran them rough, and don't know the cars are near ready to collapse (not being enthusiasts) so they scoff when considering their cars are not worth a premium.
Most of the non-enthusiasts (I feel) buy for the look, or buy for the investment. They think in a year or two they can turn a profit. Well, after sitting as a garage queen for a season or 2 the car's usability is greatly diminished, and these jokers want to turn a buck.
I'm not saying the car you are looking for isn't out there. I just think it'll be difficult to find for it's true value.
Good luck, though you're probably still better off looking for a race enthusiast owned car (one that's been banged about at the track.)
Also, in many cases, they bought them used, ran them rough, and don't know the cars are near ready to collapse (not being enthusiasts) so they scoff when considering their cars are not worth a premium.
Most of the non-enthusiasts (I feel) buy for the look, or buy for the investment. They think in a year or two they can turn a profit. Well, after sitting as a garage queen for a season or 2 the car's usability is greatly diminished, and these jokers want to turn a buck.
I'm not saying the car you are looking for isn't out there. I just think it'll be difficult to find for it's true value.
Good luck, though you're probably still better off looking for a race enthusiast owned car (one that's been banged about at the track.)
Hi Lawrence,
I felt the same as you a few time ago. I was looking for an Esprit (and only an Esprit)fitting my reasonnable budget (No reason about buying a Lotus but reasonnable regarding others cars and familly costs).
My criteria were: buy the newest you can with FSH and/or TLC. That's how I found a 89 Normally Aspirated Steven's design. Okayyyy it is only 172pk but after 6 months I am still having no serious problem, I take good care of it and all the game is to preserve it as much as using it while keeping the original parts (I am thinking about the tires -took me 2 months to find new Pirelli P600 for the rear). I agree that a turbo should be better but I wonder about reliability and my driver's licence (anyway at risk however)
Any other question?
Ben
I felt the same as you a few time ago. I was looking for an Esprit (and only an Esprit)fitting my reasonnable budget (No reason about buying a Lotus but reasonnable regarding others cars and familly costs).
My criteria were: buy the newest you can with FSH and/or TLC. That's how I found a 89 Normally Aspirated Steven's design. Okayyyy it is only 172pk but after 6 months I am still having no serious problem, I take good care of it and all the game is to preserve it as much as using it while keeping the original parts (I am thinking about the tires -took me 2 months to find new Pirelli P600 for the rear). I agree that a turbo should be better but I wonder about reliability and my driver's licence (anyway at risk however)
Any other question?
Ben
If you are going to spend £2400.00 on an Elite, it ought to be a good one, you can get Mot'd useable ones for anything from £500.00 up. I f you want my advice,and I'm going to give you it anyway
, save your money and buy an Esprit, the best one you can afford. Cheap cars are not cost effective,they will end up costing a bloody fortune, far more than you would have paid for a good one in the first place. Check my Elite page for details. The Esprit S2 is the car I'd have,if iI could, but you can't get the family in it!
, save your money and buy an Esprit, the best one you can afford. Cheap cars are not cost effective,they will end up costing a bloody fortune, far more than you would have paid for a good one in the first place. Check my Elite page for details. The Esprit S2 is the car I'd have,if iI could, but you can't get the family in it! Thanks for the info guys. I could get bound and plundered from this but here goes!!
My intention is to rebuild the car. The engine goes, as does the brakes, wheels and some suspension. It would be repowered with a Toytoa 1UZ 4C/32v V8. All the braking system would be re-done, perhaps a set of AP's? Remake some suspension links, do the bars and joints, a few geometry revisions and perhaps a nice set of 17"s. The chassis may even come under scrutiny. Still with me - or have the Lotus Police already been dispatched ?? I have excellent workshop facilities of which many a car has passed under the hammer (so to speak), so the finished article will be worthy of the Lotus name. Oh and to add, Im in New Zealand, where our good government make allowances for enthusiast people to carry out such things. Comments appreciated.
My intention is to rebuild the car. The engine goes, as does the brakes, wheels and some suspension. It would be repowered with a Toytoa 1UZ 4C/32v V8. All the braking system would be re-done, perhaps a set of AP's? Remake some suspension links, do the bars and joints, a few geometry revisions and perhaps a nice set of 17"s. The chassis may even come under scrutiny. Still with me - or have the Lotus Police already been dispatched ??
I have excellent workshop facilities of which many a car has passed under the hammer (so to speak), so the finished article will be worthy of the Lotus name. Oh and to add, Im in New Zealand, where our good government make allowances for enthusiast people to carry out such things. Comments appreciated.If it ain't broke, why fix it? The Lotus Esprit is one of the finest cars ever built. The 912 engine is a sweet little unit and produces enough power to scare the living daylights out of you often enough, and the chassis set up makes the car float around the most evil of bends. Sounds to me that you'd be better off with a '32 Ford model A. As your in New Zeland, I guess you won't be visiting Donnington this weekend. Best of luck with the hunt and mods, although you don't need to bother.
Agreed, a good car can always be improved, and many of us do upgrade our Esprits. However, from your description, it seems like all you really want is perhaps the look of the Esprit on an entirely different car.
Wheels brakes and suspension are common upgrades, but replacing the engine is like tearing out the car's heart. And while you are at it, you'll be swapping out the gearbox...might as well as your Toyota V-8 will most likely tear it to shreds (the Esprit gearbox is the car's weak link.)
Basically, sounds like you are keeping the chassis and the body panels. I would suggest that you may be better off building a kit car (perhaps one of the nice Lambo or Ferrari kits out there.) You'd probably save yourself a healthy amount of cash, and wouldn't be taking a wonderful car out of the Lotus fold.
I'm sorry, but if you tear the engine out and stick in a Toyota, you have a Toyota. I'm not quite sure what the point is, especially when the exiting engine can be tuned far beyond what it's stock output is.
Wheels brakes and suspension are common upgrades, but replacing the engine is like tearing out the car's heart. And while you are at it, you'll be swapping out the gearbox...might as well as your Toyota V-8 will most likely tear it to shreds (the Esprit gearbox is the car's weak link.)
Basically, sounds like you are keeping the chassis and the body panels. I would suggest that you may be better off building a kit car (perhaps one of the nice Lambo or Ferrari kits out there.) You'd probably save yourself a healthy amount of cash, and wouldn't be taking a wonderful car out of the Lotus fold.
I'm sorry, but if you tear the engine out and stick in a Toyota, you have a Toyota. I'm not quite sure what the point is, especially when the exiting engine can be tuned far beyond what it's stock output is.
Hmmm Yes Mike, true true. I have the Lambo replica, a 13 year scratch built machine, not a kitcar. Strenghtend UN1-13 box holds 440hp Chevrolet no problem. A variety of Toyota components abound earlier Esprits, but they dont look or stop like a Celica. The 4cam 32valve alloy Toyota V8 fits the Lotus glove perfectly. It has technology, charm and history - who knows, perhaps it was secretly developed by Lotus for Toyota as was the 909 motor made for GM's Corvette?? My plans are to build the car as Lotus would, have a damn good time doing it and not bastardize it beyond all recognition!!!!!
quote:
I'm sorry, but if you tear the engine out and stick in a Toyota, you have a Toyota. .
So, by that logic, an elise is only a rover.. and an elan is an isuzu??
There's more to lotus than just who makes the engine.
I love my esprit to bits, but i think lawrence has every right to do whatever the **** he wants to do with his esprit. Especially if its one that has already been 'broken' by a previous owner.
I think an esprit with a jap v8 would be a fantastic car, especially if you couple this braking upgrades (all esprit brakes are crap until you get to the very latest ap's).
I think colin chapman would not disapprove.
Just one suggestion Lawrence - if your going to tear it apart, the talk to Johan Hybinette about the roll cage he made for his car - it attaches to the suspension top mounts and makes for a very stiff shell. Without this, your suspension upgrades would be wasted as the shell of the esprit is about as torsionally rigid as a (damp) lettuce.
Let us know how you get on.
Cheers
Rob
98 V8-GT
Thanks for the support Rob. I have been reading and following the websites on the American Siverstate Classic Road Race, where some guys entered a Lotus V8.
They have a whole site on their rebuild of the car to make it worthy of 200+ MPH - the rollcage could very well be beneficial to the car I have in mind. They go into great detail with photos of how they did it. Good thing is, no matter how much they modify it, its still every inch a Lotus !!
They have a whole site on their rebuild of the car to make it worthy of 200+ MPH - the rollcage could very well be beneficial to the car I have in mind. They go into great detail with photos of how they did it. Good thing is, no matter how much they modify it, its still every inch a Lotus !!
hi lawrence. yes, the siverstate car is Johan's. He was over in the uk last month.. i met up with him with another mate (sport350 owner). Hes got a lot more detailed pics of the mods which he showed us - the cage mounts to the top of the suspension, adding a massive amount of rigidity to the car.
Check out www.hybinette.com/lotus
Let us know how you get on with your project.
Cheers
Rob
98 V8-GT
Check out www.hybinette.com/lotus
Let us know how you get on with your project.
Cheers
Rob
98 V8-GT
Don't get me wrong Rob, I'm a firm believer that you should do whatever you want to your car. I'm definately not the type to turn my nose up at a modified/customized car. Exactly the opposite.
What I am meaning to say is, it seems like this project is going to cost quite a bit when it appears that what will be kept is the chassis and the body and that's it. I would think it would be more feasible to build a replicar from the ground up than buy a drivable but mistreated Esprit and gut it.
I suppose it depends on what you really want. Is it the performance aspects of the chassis? If so, rather than searching for a drivable Esprit, you should look for a fire-damaged Esprit. I suggest instead of finding a drivable car, you check out the work another Esprit owner has done. I can't remember who did it, but he has taken two destroyed Esprits (one which was fire damaged, one which had no motor) and merged them together into a like-new car. Anyone help me out remembering the chaps name? He has a fantastic website chronicling the endeavor.
I am of the opinion that a rescue of a written off Esprit would be just as economical, if not more so. And putting another car back on the road is better for the marquee.
Hope my previous post didn't sound too negative against the idea, BTW. I love to see what owners do to improve these cars.
What I am meaning to say is, it seems like this project is going to cost quite a bit when it appears that what will be kept is the chassis and the body and that's it. I would think it would be more feasible to build a replicar from the ground up than buy a drivable but mistreated Esprit and gut it.
I suppose it depends on what you really want. Is it the performance aspects of the chassis? If so, rather than searching for a drivable Esprit, you should look for a fire-damaged Esprit. I suggest instead of finding a drivable car, you check out the work another Esprit owner has done. I can't remember who did it, but he has taken two destroyed Esprits (one which was fire damaged, one which had no motor) and merged them together into a like-new car. Anyone help me out remembering the chaps name? He has a fantastic website chronicling the endeavor.
I am of the opinion that a rescue of a written off Esprit would be just as economical, if not more so. And putting another car back on the road is better for the marquee.
Hope my previous post didn't sound too negative against the idea, BTW. I love to see what owners do to improve these cars.
Mike...
It is Guy Theriens web site that you are referring to:
www.theriens.com/lotus/
I don't know how Guy gets around the whole wife thing. I mean, if I told my wife: "Ok, honey, here's the plan, first we buy 4 wrecked Esprit's, right? Are you with me? Honey, Honey?...." (Door slamming sounds)
ErnestM
It is Guy Theriens web site that you are referring to:
www.theriens.com/lotus/
I don't know how Guy gets around the whole wife thing. I mean, if I told my wife: "Ok, honey, here's the plan, first we buy 4 wrecked Esprit's, right? Are you with me? Honey, Honey?...." (Door slamming sounds)
ErnestM
Well Ernest. You just gotta take your hat off to those guys. They are doing a remarkable job!!!
See, nothing that can't be done with a bucket of bog and glass LOL.
But seriously folks, what an excellent project - damn, if only I lived nearby, I'd set up bed in a corner of the garage!!
But Mike, as you can see its not so much a 'replace everything project". I dont intend to replace hubs and all arms etc etc. But even these peices are not difficult to make. Perhaps you dont have a workshop and are not sure of what it takes to do these things. I must get my website up and running, then you could see what it takes to draw up, make patterns, cast and machine aluminium parts, or even what it takes to make new axles. Its not expensive to do these things, its just time consuming - now about that understanding wife !! The Cadillac Northstar V8 engine is a total gem, but I think the Porsche 914 Tranny is a step backward.
Well if only 87> Lotus' in a sad condition were hiding around the UK as they seem to be in the USA! sigh@
See, nothing that can't be done with a bucket of bog and glass LOL.
But seriously folks, what an excellent project - damn, if only I lived nearby, I'd set up bed in a corner of the garage!!
But Mike, as you can see its not so much a 'replace everything project". I dont intend to replace hubs and all arms etc etc. But even these peices are not difficult to make. Perhaps you dont have a workshop and are not sure of what it takes to do these things. I must get my website up and running, then you could see what it takes to draw up, make patterns, cast and machine aluminium parts, or even what it takes to make new axles. Its not expensive to do these things, its just time consuming - now about that understanding wife !! The Cadillac Northstar V8 engine is a total gem, but I think the Porsche 914 Tranny is a step backward.
Well if only 87> Lotus' in a sad condition were hiding around the UK as they seem to be in the USA! sigh@
Guy is not the only one.. Keen Young has already restored one esprit to glory, and is now engrossed in an even bigger project..
check out Keen's web site:
www.usinternet.com/users/kyoung/lotus/
He's a brave guy!
Cheers
Rob
check out Keen's web site:
www.usinternet.com/users/kyoung/lotus/
He's a brave guy!
Cheers
Rob
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