Esprit or 911?
Discussion
I've had all of the aircooled 911's and loved them all but fancy something newer, and faster. The Esprit has been on my mind since a boy as was the 911, but the 911 could be run daily, in the rain (!) for less than a grand a year and that was for a 964 (1992). So if I go for an Esprit, and I want a V8 post 98, what can I expect to spend? And if any of you guys have had both how do they compare? Also what's a fair price for a V8 oval dash?
Cheers
Bill
Cheers
Bill
Bill
I own a 99 V8GT and have done for 2 1/2 years. By the way it is not for sale!!!
I aim to cover service costs, Insurance and tax for about £1200 per annum. This is with a full Lotus Service History. Every four years the cambelts need replacing and this adds about £700 to the annual bill.The last cambelt was actually done at the factory for this figure. In addition over the years (I have full lotus history with only 2 owners)it has had odd bits of work including a new radiator last year but nothing to shout about. I do about 4500 per annum and total mileage is under 20000 so you will see the previous owner did not use it that much. Tyres fuel etc are only normal 'supercar' costs.
Difficult to price cars but my only advice after speaking to a number of people at dealers etc would be to buy towards the upper end of the market so say £20000 rather than say £15000 which seems to carry a much greater chance of many owners,run on a tight budget sort of car.
Obviously not always true but you know what i mean.
The V8 esprit is undoubtably destined for a great collectors car future for what it is worth, with only about 1000 made and a lot of those went abroad.
Finally whilst i can honestly never see myself selling the esprit,i too would love a watercooled 911 (aswell!! - the wife too agrees with that funilly enough).You wont go far wrong with either although you may have to 'tinker' with the esprit a little more.
But you will sneak out at night into the garage just to look at the esprit!!
Mark
I own a 99 V8GT and have done for 2 1/2 years. By the way it is not for sale!!!
I aim to cover service costs, Insurance and tax for about £1200 per annum. This is with a full Lotus Service History. Every four years the cambelts need replacing and this adds about £700 to the annual bill.The last cambelt was actually done at the factory for this figure. In addition over the years (I have full lotus history with only 2 owners)it has had odd bits of work including a new radiator last year but nothing to shout about. I do about 4500 per annum and total mileage is under 20000 so you will see the previous owner did not use it that much. Tyres fuel etc are only normal 'supercar' costs.
Difficult to price cars but my only advice after speaking to a number of people at dealers etc would be to buy towards the upper end of the market so say £20000 rather than say £15000 which seems to carry a much greater chance of many owners,run on a tight budget sort of car.
Obviously not always true but you know what i mean.
The V8 esprit is undoubtably destined for a great collectors car future for what it is worth, with only about 1000 made and a lot of those went abroad.
Finally whilst i can honestly never see myself selling the esprit,i too would love a watercooled 911 (aswell!! - the wife too agrees with that funilly enough).You wont go far wrong with either although you may have to 'tinker' with the esprit a little more.
But you will sneak out at night into the garage just to look at the esprit!!
Mark
I'm on my second V8-GT. The first was '98 and was an absolute money pit. Fractured oil rads and split piping, new radiator, broken fifth gear, fractured oil and water pipes (turbos), new turbos, new wastegates, 5 sheared exhaust manifold bolts, new discs and so on. Plus routine services and a few cosmetic upgrades. I wrote it off on black ice in January '08 and in pulling together all the records for the assessor I made the mistake of totting it all up - over £16k uncluding bits I bought off ebay and LEW. In just over 2 years and 20k miles. It had 49k on the clock when it died but I actually got back exactly what I paid for it - £18k.
I bought another 4 months later.....
It's an '01, another V8-GT. I've had it 15 months and done around 10k miles. Problems, virtually none. A fractured EGR pipe (PO bodge job) and routine servicing (including cambelt) plus a couple of tyres. Thats it. About £3k so far but that includes me doing some preventative work - new alloy wastegates, steel brake and clutch lines and turbo cooling pipes.
The build quality is so much better than my previous one so I suggest the later the better and expect to pay £18k - £20k for a good 'un these days.
Go for it. You won't regret it. Head over to LEW and LEF for the low down.
I bought another 4 months later.....
It's an '01, another V8-GT. I've had it 15 months and done around 10k miles. Problems, virtually none. A fractured EGR pipe (PO bodge job) and routine servicing (including cambelt) plus a couple of tyres. Thats it. About £3k so far but that includes me doing some preventative work - new alloy wastegates, steel brake and clutch lines and turbo cooling pipes.
The build quality is so much better than my previous one so I suggest the later the better and expect to pay £18k - £20k for a good 'un these days.
Go for it. You won't regret it. Head over to LEW and LEF for the low down.
Edited by Hedgerley on Saturday 3rd October 20:48
As I said, you need to head over to www.lotusespritworld.com and www.lotusespritforum.com. Everything you could possibly need to know and maybe a few things you didn't can be found there. The Forum is very active and you'll find that owners will help out if they can. If you find one you fancy (a car that is, not an owner) someone will no doubt offer to check it out for you.
I see you are in Merseyside - you should try to hook up with Dave Walters. He runs an upgrade website www.espritperformance.com and is pretty much in tune with the market in your neck of the woods. I think he knows of a very tidy '02 for sale at the moemnt. Tell him I sent you.
I see you are in Merseyside - you should try to hook up with Dave Walters. He runs an upgrade website www.espritperformance.com and is pretty much in tune with the market in your neck of the woods. I think he knows of a very tidy '02 for sale at the moemnt. Tell him I sent you.
Edited by Hedgerley on Sunday 4th October 13:45
I used to have a 964 which I loved.
Drove my mates Esprit S4S this weekend, and although it had its good points, you need the feet of a ballerina to drive the thing. My size 11’s were hitting all three peddles as once. So have a few test drive’s to see if you fit with it. I’m not sure if the ergonomics are any different with the V8’s.
That combined with the odd brake system (vacume?) made for a scary drive, bearing in mind it was a mates P&J.
Drove my mates Esprit S4S this weekend, and although it had its good points, you need the feet of a ballerina to drive the thing. My size 11’s were hitting all three peddles as once. So have a few test drive’s to see if you fit with it. I’m not sure if the ergonomics are any different with the V8’s.
That combined with the odd brake system (vacume?) made for a scary drive, bearing in mind it was a mates P&J.
Were you wearing slim shoes or wide soled 'clompers'?
I have size 12 feet and don't have a problem providing I wear slim fitting shoes a bit like the racing booty type footwear. It makes an enormous difference and makes you feel more in control believe it or not.
I understand the pedals are spaced quite closely but it is for 2 reasons, there aint a lot of footwell space due to the wheel well design, big front wheel and low sloping bonnet etc, also so you can control the car with heel toeing.
If I place my feet exactly in the right position with slim shoes and drivelike I stole it briskly, I feel like a racing driver...
I have size 12 feet and don't have a problem providing I wear slim fitting shoes a bit like the racing booty type footwear. It makes an enormous difference and makes you feel more in control believe it or not.
I understand the pedals are spaced quite closely but it is for 2 reasons, there aint a lot of footwell space due to the wheel well design, big front wheel and low sloping bonnet etc, also so you can control the car with heel toeing.
If I place my feet exactly in the right position with slim shoes and drive
esprits are great cars (some of them) but have had their day now IMO
best remembered really unless you are really an esprit 'nut'
the V8 and 4 pot drivetrains were just about passable back then but nowadays, shockingly bad
the list of design weaknesses is long as well.. expect to do alot of fiddling/improving/fixing if you want peace of mind
a 10, 20 year old 911 can still be used in anger every single day... totally different cars and if you dig the 911 shape then every one of them looks amazing, a 930, a 3.2, a 993, 964 ... they still look totally relevant whereas the esprit, really its only the S1 that has stood the test of time. The stevens cars are particularly dated IMO.
Edited by jackal on Tuesday 3rd November 14:58
jackal said:
if you dig the 911 shape then every one of them looks amazing,
This is the problem. I have never liked the 911 shape in any of its guises as they all just look like a facelifted '60s car.Friend had a 996 but I think the swearfilter is likely to remove 99% of the content if I quote his thoughts on Porsche ownership here. Rumour has it he was not the only one.
Le TVR said:
jackal said:
if you dig the 911 shape then every one of them looks amazing,
This is the problem. I have never liked the 911 shape in any of its guises as they all just look like a facelifted '60s car.Friend had a 996 but I think the swearfilter is likely to remove 99% of the content if I quote his thoughts on Porsche ownership here. Rumour has it he was not the only one.
if you don't like the general shape then it totally rules them out
I have had 4 Esprits
1. A 1992 SE high Wing
2. A 1998 GT3
3. A 2001 V8 GT
4. A 2002 V8
Here are my conclsuions:
Buy the very latest car you can get and if it is a V8 >2001 due to engine/cylinder liner problems (check engine Vin number with factory before buying)
The old ones cost a fortune to run and the new ones cost every little if they have a good full Lotus Service History. The new ones drive FAR better than the old ones which are a bit creaky.
Jackals comments are interesting re the Esprit having its day and I partially agree.
I think the old ones pre 1998 do looked dated now but that will mature into a classic look (like Countach or 355)
I think post 1998 cars still look modern and carry more road presence and exclusivity than Gallardos but trail behind 360s IMHO.
I would take a V8 Esprit over a 355 (perfermance and looks) or a 911 (rarity, looks and performance)
Just my 2p
1. A 1992 SE high Wing
2. A 1998 GT3
3. A 2001 V8 GT
4. A 2002 V8
Here are my conclsuions:
Buy the very latest car you can get and if it is a V8 >2001 due to engine/cylinder liner problems (check engine Vin number with factory before buying)
The old ones cost a fortune to run and the new ones cost every little if they have a good full Lotus Service History. The new ones drive FAR better than the old ones which are a bit creaky.
Jackals comments are interesting re the Esprit having its day and I partially agree.
I think the old ones pre 1998 do looked dated now but that will mature into a classic look (like Countach or 355)
I think post 1998 cars still look modern and carry more road presence and exclusivity than Gallardos but trail behind 360s IMHO.
I would take a V8 Esprit over a 355 (perfermance and looks) or a 911 (rarity, looks and performance)
Just my 2p
Edited by richardmancunian on Thursday 5th November 13:45
Reliability is the only thing in favour of the 911 imo.
I've had 2 esprits and have many happy memories. So much so I'm after another one now, preferably a sport 300.
By the way the Sport 350 is an astonishing car and is totally on the pace with much of the latest kit. It looks amazing and drives even better. No car I've ever driven just gobbled up the curbs at the nurburgring like it, such is the ride and composure. I had a v8gt which was fabulous and very quick but the s350 was in a different league.
Hugely underrated car, cost £68k new and the v8 I'd go for without hesitation
I've had 2 esprits and have many happy memories. So much so I'm after another one now, preferably a sport 300.
By the way the Sport 350 is an astonishing car and is totally on the pace with much of the latest kit. It looks amazing and drives even better. No car I've ever driven just gobbled up the curbs at the nurburgring like it, such is the ride and composure. I had a v8gt which was fabulous and very quick but the s350 was in a different league.
Hugely underrated car, cost £68k new and the v8 I'd go for without hesitation
richardmancunian said:
Buy the very latest car you can get and if it is a V8 >2001 due to engine/cylinder liner problems (check engine Vin number with factory before buying)
There is another reason for preferring the latest models.the MY2002 versions are fitted with the same ECU as the Sport350. Previous models are torque limited in the lower gears and the difference is quite noticeable
The Pits said:
Reliability is the only thing in favour of the 911 imo.
well to be fair there's way more to it than that.. not least the enginesI can understand where you're coming from though.. when I was into lotuses, porsches did nothing for me, especially 911's. They are cars you have to own to really understand.
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