citroen gearbox noise
Discussion
Just read Tim's informative reply re input shaft so thought I would ask a different but similar question.
For the last 3000 miles or so I can hear a bearing noise in 5th gear when the oil in hot (cant hear it until hot) Recently I have also detected the noise in 4th gear - so suggests problem is getting worse.
Question - Anyone know which bearing(s) will be causing the problem and is it possible to change them without major surgery or special tools?
Cheers Steve 84 turbo
For the last 3000 miles or so I can hear a bearing noise in 5th gear when the oil in hot (cant hear it until hot) Recently I have also detected the noise in 4th gear - so suggests problem is getting worse.
Question - Anyone know which bearing(s) will be causing the problem and is it possible to change them without major surgery or special tools?
Cheers Steve 84 turbo
Steve,
1st thru 4th are inside the main gearbox. The primary and secondary shafts extend through the back wall of the gearbox, passing through the rear support bearings, and cantilevering out behind the box. Fifth gear is over-hung out behind the works. The rear extension housing just covers all the bits without adding any support.
Both of the rear support bearings (upper/primary shaft, and lower/secondary shaft) are mountd in the back wall and sandwiched between the 4th & 5th gear sets. They're the ones that come to mind as causes of the noise you describe. However, 4th & 5th gears are free floating on the primary shaft and run on little needle bearings that slide into their bores. Those needle bearings are also possibilities.
What gear oil do you use? How often do you change it? If it's been a while, then try a fresh load of a premium quality gear oil and see what happens. Plan your next step from there.
The Citroen transaxle isn't simple. If you have experience assembling gearboxes, then go for it. But this is not the one I'd recommend learning on.
The primary shaft is on top and can be removed without any special tools. There's a nasty-mean snap ring that will require a quality tool, but it's still just a snap ring. One that will improve your vocabulary of 4-letter words, but still just a snap ring.
The secondary shaft is on the bottom and does require one special tool. Don't even think about trying to get by without it since the speedo drive gear you will screw up is no longer available. And the special wrench is no longer available from either Lotus or Citroen. However, I can forward a drawing that illustrates how to modify a 36mm crowfoot wrench to fit. PM me if/when you need the drawing.
If you replace anything on the secondary shaft assembly, then you will probably have to re-shim the pinion height. At the very least, accurately measure it to confirm it hasn't moved out of spec. There's a special fixture for that, but it's no longer available new either. And I've "never" seen one on eBay or any where else. The pinion height fixture is a lot more involved to make than the wrench is, but it can be done.
Any time you mess with the pinion height, plan on re-setting the backlash between the pinion and the crown wheel. Then you need to re-set the pre-load on the differential support bearings.
The details for all that are in the manual. Read it. If it doesn't make sense to you, then it would be best to find a professional.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
1st thru 4th are inside the main gearbox. The primary and secondary shafts extend through the back wall of the gearbox, passing through the rear support bearings, and cantilevering out behind the box. Fifth gear is over-hung out behind the works. The rear extension housing just covers all the bits without adding any support.
Both of the rear support bearings (upper/primary shaft, and lower/secondary shaft) are mountd in the back wall and sandwiched between the 4th & 5th gear sets. They're the ones that come to mind as causes of the noise you describe. However, 4th & 5th gears are free floating on the primary shaft and run on little needle bearings that slide into their bores. Those needle bearings are also possibilities.
What gear oil do you use? How often do you change it? If it's been a while, then try a fresh load of a premium quality gear oil and see what happens. Plan your next step from there.
The Citroen transaxle isn't simple. If you have experience assembling gearboxes, then go for it. But this is not the one I'd recommend learning on.
The primary shaft is on top and can be removed without any special tools. There's a nasty-mean snap ring that will require a quality tool, but it's still just a snap ring. One that will improve your vocabulary of 4-letter words, but still just a snap ring.
The secondary shaft is on the bottom and does require one special tool. Don't even think about trying to get by without it since the speedo drive gear you will screw up is no longer available. And the special wrench is no longer available from either Lotus or Citroen. However, I can forward a drawing that illustrates how to modify a 36mm crowfoot wrench to fit. PM me if/when you need the drawing.
If you replace anything on the secondary shaft assembly, then you will probably have to re-shim the pinion height. At the very least, accurately measure it to confirm it hasn't moved out of spec. There's a special fixture for that, but it's no longer available new either. And I've "never" seen one on eBay or any where else. The pinion height fixture is a lot more involved to make than the wrench is, but it can be done.
Any time you mess with the pinion height, plan on re-setting the backlash between the pinion and the crown wheel. Then you need to re-set the pre-load on the differential support bearings.
The details for all that are in the manual. Read it. If it doesn't make sense to you, then it would be best to find a professional.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Steve,
Lotus recommends Castrol TAF-X for the Renault transmissions in later Esprits. It's the only factory-approved oil. It's expensive and not readily available everywhere. In the USA we have to get it from Lotus dealers or independent Lotus parts suppliers. Due to the limited import and distribution quantities, it's very expensive for us. Enough to fill the Renault box (3 liters ?) costs close to US$100. But it's good stuff.
Lotus didn't specify such a high level oil for the Citroen, but I would still recommend it as the best you can put in it anyway. Redline MT90 is good. Or use a quality full-synthetic GL5 gearoil.
Regardless of what you use, the gear oil must be changed periodically just like the motor oil. Don't let it get old, oxidized and dirty.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus recommends Castrol TAF-X for the Renault transmissions in later Esprits. It's the only factory-approved oil. It's expensive and not readily available everywhere. In the USA we have to get it from Lotus dealers or independent Lotus parts suppliers. Due to the limited import and distribution quantities, it's very expensive for us. Enough to fill the Renault box (3 liters ?) costs close to US$100. But it's good stuff.
Lotus didn't specify such a high level oil for the Citroen, but I would still recommend it as the best you can put in it anyway. Redline MT90 is good. Or use a quality full-synthetic GL5 gearoil.
Regardless of what you use, the gear oil must be changed periodically just like the motor oil. Don't let it get old, oxidized and dirty.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
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