The Big Question
Discussion
I've owned a lot of different models of Esprit from an S1 up to a couple of V8s. I managed to get one of my V8s to just before the redline in 5th gear, so I was going at a fair old pace. I've never had issues with the door frames being blown out.
Perhaps your car needs the attention of a good mechanic?
Perhaps your car needs the attention of a good mechanic?
why would anyone want to ban you, seems like reasonable question to me.
deecee said:
My question is worthy of an answer...
Why is there an apparent aerodynamic defect in the Esprit's Doors, in that they want to blow out at speed, and why did Lotus continue to sell the vehicles without correcting the defect?
Now, if you want to Ban me, go for it...
Why is there an apparent aerodynamic defect in the Esprit's Doors, in that they want to blow out at speed, and why did Lotus continue to sell the vehicles without correcting the defect?
Now, if you want to Ban me, go for it...
cross-eyed-twit said:
why would anyone want to ban you...
deecee said:
My question is worthy of an answer...
Why is there an apparent aerodynamic defect in the Esprit's Doors, in that they want to blow out at speed, and why did Lotus continue to sell the vehicles without correcting the defect?
Now, if you want to Ban me, go for it...
Why is there an apparent aerodynamic defect in the Esprit's Doors, in that they want to blow out at speed, and why did Lotus continue to sell the vehicles without correcting the defect?
Now, if you want to Ban me, go for it...
Put the question back into its full and original context - see page 3 of 'stand in minature Esprit' thread - and all will become clear
Is it the door or the window frame, I'm guessing you're talking about the frame, in which case, they can wobble a bit at speed but it's usually due to them being loose or bowed in the first place with the door seals not sealing properly.
If your on about the door then I think you have a more serious problem that is certainly NOT common for the Esprit.
If your on about the door then I think you have a more serious problem that is certainly NOT common for the Esprit.
Its a Design/Engineering Flaw that was caused by the Engineers not providing for adequate Lateral Strength in the Door Frame and attempting to rely solely on the Door Beam for support.
My point is that Lotus (and the Head Engineer from the other post) knew, but they chose to continue to sell the Esprits unchanged....just as they not only continued to sell Esprits with the Cracking Intake Manifolds, but expected the owners to anti-up another $1,800 for the repair.
The company has such a bad reputation for running slip shod over its original owners, I can't conceive of anyone throwing down $90,000 to $110,000 for a New Esprit.
Fact is...I Don't Believe That There Is A New Esprit.
I think that Lotus is Going Out Of Business and their marketing department invented the Story in order to draw attention away from a Production Run Off of their current model year.
I think that the Parts Sale was the start of it, and going by GPK's False idea of that general production ended in 1999, that would mean that the Lotus parts for these Esprits went Obsolete in Less Than 7 Years.
Does that sound like a manufacturer that is worried about Past Customer Loyalty and Generating Future Sales?
Do you honestly think that they give a Rat's Butt about you or your Esprit?...they just made your car a Boat Anchor and are responsible for Plunging its value down the Toilet!.
The Parts For Your Esprit Are No Longer Made!
Would You buy a car that you can't get Parts For?...well guess what, neither will anyone else!
If General Motors and Ford are in trouble, why would anyone think that a Mickey Mouse Company like with Lotus would be doing any better?
...Because they won an Formula One Championship back when Dinosauers Ruled the Earth?
My point is that Lotus (and the Head Engineer from the other post) knew, but they chose to continue to sell the Esprits unchanged....just as they not only continued to sell Esprits with the Cracking Intake Manifolds, but expected the owners to anti-up another $1,800 for the repair.
The company has such a bad reputation for running slip shod over its original owners, I can't conceive of anyone throwing down $90,000 to $110,000 for a New Esprit.
Fact is...I Don't Believe That There Is A New Esprit.
I think that Lotus is Going Out Of Business and their marketing department invented the Story in order to draw attention away from a Production Run Off of their current model year.
I think that the Parts Sale was the start of it, and going by GPK's False idea of that general production ended in 1999, that would mean that the Lotus parts for these Esprits went Obsolete in Less Than 7 Years.
Does that sound like a manufacturer that is worried about Past Customer Loyalty and Generating Future Sales?
Do you honestly think that they give a Rat's Butt about you or your Esprit?...they just made your car a Boat Anchor and are responsible for Plunging its value down the Toilet!.
The Parts For Your Esprit Are No Longer Made!
Would You buy a car that you can't get Parts For?...well guess what, neither will anyone else!
If General Motors and Ford are in trouble, why would anyone think that a Mickey Mouse Company like with Lotus would be doing any better?
...Because they won an Formula One Championship back when Dinosauers Ruled the Earth?
Edited by deecee on Tuesday 20th February 01:41
deecee said:
Its a Design/Engineering Flaw that was caused by the Engineers not providing for adequate Lateral Strength in the Door Frame and attempting to rely solely on the Door Beam for support.
GIVES A SENSATION OF EXCESSIVE SPEED.. A DESIGN INPUT REQUIREMENT... FORCING THE DRIVER TO SLOW DOWN
My point is that Lotus (and the Head Engineer from the other post) knew, but they chose to continue to sell the Esprits unchanged....just as they not only continued to sell Esprits with the Cracking Intake Manifolds, but expected the owners to anti-up another $1,800 for the repair.
DEALER SUPPORT REQUIREMENT...
The company has such a bad reputation for running slip shod over its original owners, I can't conceive of anyone throwing down $90,000 to $110,000 for a New Esprit.
THE TEST: THE ELISE/ EXIGE SELLS FOR BIG BUCKS.. SO WILL ANY OTHER NEW LOTUS.. BUT IT WILL HAVE TO BE GOOD FOR THAT PRICE.
Fact is...I Don't Believe That There Is A New Esprit.
THERE WILL BE, ONCE ONE IS OFFERED FOR SALE..
I think that Lotus is Going Out Of Business and their marketing department invented the Story in order to draw attention away from a Production Run Off of their current model year.
TALK TO PROTON IN MALAYSIA.. THEY MAY DISAGREE..
I think that the Parts Sale was the start of it, and going by GPK's False idea of that general production ended in 1999, that would mean that the Lotus parts for these Esprits went Obsolete in Less Than 7 Years.
PUBLIC PARTS SALE WAS AN INVENTION FOR ANYONE IN NA... SUSPECT IT WAS A PLOY TO ENCOURAGE DEALERS TO BUY OUT SURPLUS WAREHOUSED STOCK AT LOTUS
Does that sound like a manufacturer that is worried about Past Customer Loyalty and Generating Future Sales?
LOTUS HAVE A NEW CUSTOMER BASE IN THE ELISE/EXIGE WHO MAY NOT CARE ABOUT PAST PRACTICES. ESPRIT ARE SMALL NUMBERS (CURIOUS HOW MANY EXIST ACTUALLY)
Do you honestly think that they give a Rat's Butt about you or your Esprit?...they just made your car a Boat Anchor and are responsible for Plunging its value down the Toilet!.
THEY PROBABLE DO CARE TO SOME DEGREE, BUT ITS OLD BUSINESS AND THEY ARE MOVING ON, LIKE THEY HAVE DONE WITH ALL THEIR OTHER MODELS OVER THE YEARS.. I SOMEHOW DOUBT THE BOAT ANCHOR THEORY...I THINK THEY JUST MADE THEM MORE COLLECTABLE, AND RARE.
THOSE OF US THAT OWN MINT CARS, AND ARE WILLING TO INVEST THE TIME AND COST TO MAINTAIN THEM, MAY BENEFIT IN THE LONG TERM. THOSE IN ILL REPAIR MAY BECOME PARTS CARS, AND PRETTY MUCH WORTHLESS (UNTIL THEY RUN OUT).
The Parts For Your Esprit Are No Longer Made!
I AM SURE THAT SOME ARE.. USUALLY DRIVELINE, CRITICAL SUPSENSION AND SAFETY PARTS ARE MADE AVAILABLE FOR A WHILE.. BEYOND THAT IT WOULD BE DEALER INVENTORY USED UP, THEN AFTERMARKET AND CUSTOM MFR.. THE DREAM CANT LIVE FOREVER.
Would You buy a car that you can't get Parts For?...well guess what, neither will anyone else!
RESOURCEFUL COLLECTORS AND ENTHUSIASTS WOULD...
If General Motors and Ford are in trouble, why would anyone think that a Mickey Mouse Company like with Lotus would be doing any better?
lOTUS HAVE SURVIVED SO FAR, ALTHOUGH I DOUBT FORD AND GM ARE REALLY IN TROUBLE.. ITS JUST THAT THE EXECS PAYCHECKS HAVE SHRUNK.. SO THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING DOWN..
WITH LOTUS AND CHAPMAN IT WAS A PASSION.. I BELIEVE IT WAS ALL IN THE NAME OF RACING, LIKE FERRARI AND OTHERS.
...Because they won an Formula One Championship back when Dinosauers Ruled the Earth?
WHEN FORD COSWORTH RULED THE EARTH...
HUMOUR ASIDE, YOU DO MAKE A FEW GOOD POINTS WORTH PONDERING.. BECAUSE REALLY, WHAT DO WE KNOW??
J
GIVES A SENSATION OF EXCESSIVE SPEED.. A DESIGN INPUT REQUIREMENT... FORCING THE DRIVER TO SLOW DOWN
My point is that Lotus (and the Head Engineer from the other post) knew, but they chose to continue to sell the Esprits unchanged....just as they not only continued to sell Esprits with the Cracking Intake Manifolds, but expected the owners to anti-up another $1,800 for the repair.
DEALER SUPPORT REQUIREMENT...
The company has such a bad reputation for running slip shod over its original owners, I can't conceive of anyone throwing down $90,000 to $110,000 for a New Esprit.
THE TEST: THE ELISE/ EXIGE SELLS FOR BIG BUCKS.. SO WILL ANY OTHER NEW LOTUS.. BUT IT WILL HAVE TO BE GOOD FOR THAT PRICE.
Fact is...I Don't Believe That There Is A New Esprit.
THERE WILL BE, ONCE ONE IS OFFERED FOR SALE..
I think that Lotus is Going Out Of Business and their marketing department invented the Story in order to draw attention away from a Production Run Off of their current model year.
TALK TO PROTON IN MALAYSIA.. THEY MAY DISAGREE..
I think that the Parts Sale was the start of it, and going by GPK's False idea of that general production ended in 1999, that would mean that the Lotus parts for these Esprits went Obsolete in Less Than 7 Years.
PUBLIC PARTS SALE WAS AN INVENTION FOR ANYONE IN NA... SUSPECT IT WAS A PLOY TO ENCOURAGE DEALERS TO BUY OUT SURPLUS WAREHOUSED STOCK AT LOTUS
Does that sound like a manufacturer that is worried about Past Customer Loyalty and Generating Future Sales?
LOTUS HAVE A NEW CUSTOMER BASE IN THE ELISE/EXIGE WHO MAY NOT CARE ABOUT PAST PRACTICES. ESPRIT ARE SMALL NUMBERS (CURIOUS HOW MANY EXIST ACTUALLY)
Do you honestly think that they give a Rat's Butt about you or your Esprit?...they just made your car a Boat Anchor and are responsible for Plunging its value down the Toilet!.
THEY PROBABLE DO CARE TO SOME DEGREE, BUT ITS OLD BUSINESS AND THEY ARE MOVING ON, LIKE THEY HAVE DONE WITH ALL THEIR OTHER MODELS OVER THE YEARS.. I SOMEHOW DOUBT THE BOAT ANCHOR THEORY...I THINK THEY JUST MADE THEM MORE COLLECTABLE, AND RARE.
THOSE OF US THAT OWN MINT CARS, AND ARE WILLING TO INVEST THE TIME AND COST TO MAINTAIN THEM, MAY BENEFIT IN THE LONG TERM. THOSE IN ILL REPAIR MAY BECOME PARTS CARS, AND PRETTY MUCH WORTHLESS (UNTIL THEY RUN OUT).
The Parts For Your Esprit Are No Longer Made!
I AM SURE THAT SOME ARE.. USUALLY DRIVELINE, CRITICAL SUPSENSION AND SAFETY PARTS ARE MADE AVAILABLE FOR A WHILE.. BEYOND THAT IT WOULD BE DEALER INVENTORY USED UP, THEN AFTERMARKET AND CUSTOM MFR.. THE DREAM CANT LIVE FOREVER.
Would You buy a car that you can't get Parts For?...well guess what, neither will anyone else!
RESOURCEFUL COLLECTORS AND ENTHUSIASTS WOULD...
If General Motors and Ford are in trouble, why would anyone think that a Mickey Mouse Company like with Lotus would be doing any better?
lOTUS HAVE SURVIVED SO FAR, ALTHOUGH I DOUBT FORD AND GM ARE REALLY IN TROUBLE.. ITS JUST THAT THE EXECS PAYCHECKS HAVE SHRUNK.. SO THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING DOWN..
WITH LOTUS AND CHAPMAN IT WAS A PASSION.. I BELIEVE IT WAS ALL IN THE NAME OF RACING, LIKE FERRARI AND OTHERS.
...Because they won an Formula One Championship back when Dinosauers Ruled the Earth?
WHEN FORD COSWORTH RULED THE EARTH...
HUMOUR ASIDE, YOU DO MAKE A FEW GOOD POINTS WORTH PONDERING.. BECAUSE REALLY, WHAT DO WE KNOW??
J
Edited by deecee on Tuesday 20th February 01:41
deecee said:
Its a Design/Engineering Flaw that was caused by the Engineers not providing for adequate Lateral Strength in the Door Frame and attempting to rely solely on the Door Beam for support.
rant
rant
rant
rant
rant
rant
Gosh, you know I don't think you really understand that Lotus are a niche manufacturer of specialist cars. Here in the UK we have a tradition of preserving our cars and a huge network of mechanics, specialists, small manufacturers, dealers, traders and garages that do exactly that not just for Lotus, but for all manner of cars you will never have heard of.
The news for you is that Lotus are not a white goods manufacturer. Funnily enough neither are Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, TVR, Noble, Ascari, Koenigsegg or a whole bunch of others. That doesn't mean they don't support their discontinued models, just that the support is rather more ad-hoc than your Ford dealer.
If that frustrates you, I suggest you buy a Ford.
Deecee. Why not sell the Esprit (that you think is crap) and buy something else.
Try a Ford GT.
I'm sure if you contact your local dealer in 5 years time and ask about spare parts they'll have them instock or get them to you next day.
How about a small side bet?
Try calling a local ford dealer and ask for a part for a GT. I'll bet there 20-25 year old spotty storeman can't find it on his all important computer even with the chassis number, If he's even heard of it!(He'll ask "what type of focus is it?" )
Try a Ford GT.
I'm sure if you contact your local dealer in 5 years time and ask about spare parts they'll have them instock or get them to you next day.
How about a small side bet?
Try calling a local ford dealer and ask for a part for a GT. I'll bet there 20-25 year old spotty storeman can't find it on his all important computer even with the chassis number, If he's even heard of it!(He'll ask "what type of focus is it?" )
Edited by hast2 on Tuesday 20th February 13:52
More Fuel...
Think that Proton is a group of investors that bought Lotus and planned on turning the company around?...think again!
Proton is short for Perusahaan Otomobil Nasional (Malay for National Automobile Enterprise)
The truth is that "Proton" is a Venture that is aimed at manufacturing a Line of Automobiles that are being produced by the Malaysian Government.
Proton owns the Majority of Lotus Shares (64%), but they don't own the company.
Apparently, like other manufacturers have done in the past, Proton was interested in Lotus's Technology and now that they have it, the Romance (if there ever was one) will be over.
Hard to believe that Proton would be interested in developing a New Esprit with Lotus, Since They Are Currently Contracted Into A Partnership With Volkswagen...and its Rumored that Volkswagen recently (Feb 8, 2007) bought 51% of the shares in Proton, with manufacturing being conducted in Pakistan.
In 2002, Proton held a market share of over 60 per cent in Malaysia, which was reduced to barely 30 percent by 2005.
In 2006, Proton’s sales dropped another 30.4% from 166,118 in 2005 to 115,538.
So, lets Recap...
You have Volkswagen (Porsche) buying a major stake in a Nationally Owned Automobile Manufacturing Plant in Malaysia...that produces your Average, Run of the Mill Car...with Future Manufacturing being done in Pakistan.
Still think that Lotus will be in business long enough for you to see a New Esprit?.
Think that Proton is a group of investors that bought Lotus and planned on turning the company around?...think again!
Proton is short for Perusahaan Otomobil Nasional (Malay for National Automobile Enterprise)
The truth is that "Proton" is a Venture that is aimed at manufacturing a Line of Automobiles that are being produced by the Malaysian Government.
Proton owns the Majority of Lotus Shares (64%), but they don't own the company.
Apparently, like other manufacturers have done in the past, Proton was interested in Lotus's Technology and now that they have it, the Romance (if there ever was one) will be over.
Hard to believe that Proton would be interested in developing a New Esprit with Lotus, Since They Are Currently Contracted Into A Partnership With Volkswagen...and its Rumored that Volkswagen recently (Feb 8, 2007) bought 51% of the shares in Proton, with manufacturing being conducted in Pakistan.
In 2002, Proton held a market share of over 60 per cent in Malaysia, which was reduced to barely 30 percent by 2005.
In 2006, Proton’s sales dropped another 30.4% from 166,118 in 2005 to 115,538.
So, lets Recap...
You have Volkswagen (Porsche) buying a major stake in a Nationally Owned Automobile Manufacturing Plant in Malaysia...that produces your Average, Run of the Mill Car...with Future Manufacturing being done in Pakistan.
Still think that Lotus will be in business long enough for you to see a New Esprit?.
Edited by deecee on Tuesday 20th February 16:12
Edited by deecee on Tuesday 20th February 16:36
You do know that Proton have been manufacturing cars and selling them in Europe for years now? It's not news that they want to make cars. They make very boring little vehicles and have not 'stolen' any Lotus technology - though they have used the consultation to improve their designs and manufacturing somewhat.
You slid your post in while I was Editing mine....read the recent Sales Figures.
True, nothing was "Stolen" from anyone...Proton "Owned" Lotus, for all intents and purposes.
Lotus's Track Record of being "Bought and Sold" is comparable to some Old Bar Hag...
Alot of guy have taken her out and used her, but none would consider a Relationship with her, let alone Marriage.
True, nothing was "Stolen" from anyone...Proton "Owned" Lotus, for all intents and purposes.
Lotus's Track Record of being "Bought and Sold" is comparable to some Old Bar Hag...
Alot of guy have taken her out and used her, but none would consider a Relationship with her, let alone Marriage.
deecee said:
Alot of guy have taken her out and used her, but none would consider a Relationship with her, let alone Marriage.
I dont mind spending lots of dosh on mine as i'm passionate about Lotus, I have always wanted one, an Esprit that is, nothing else & it gives me a buzz when ever i take it out & overtake what ever is in front of me.
Its due a C service, the exhaust manifold last month cracked & on 80k miles its never had the clutch done. My point in this year its going to cost me abit.... plus im getting married this year so thats sapped my spare cash as you can imagine. But she will get what she wants (car that is not wife to be!
) as i do truely feel i'm lucky to have an Esprit to drive it when ever I want. Deecee... do you feel that way? If not mate the Esprit isnt for you, I dont know how long you've had one but at the factory visit last year Mike Kimberley himself told us we were Lotus greatest ambassadors as we look after our cars, people look at them, point & know its a Lotus... I dont feel mate that you will give you Esprit the care it deserves & maybe you should move on to something that you wont look at & pick faults.
Its a beautiful car & take it for what it is...& i admit its not faultless by a long way but thats what i love about it.
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