How is this possible?

[silver12r]

>>> Edited by silver12r on Sunday 11th December 07:15

[lotusguy]

Hey,

Look who's selling it...the BimmerStore... They obviously know nothing, they don't even call it an S4 or S4s. They just know there are twin turbos on them now, so that's how they describe this one, erroneously. But, you can indeed run 2 turbos off a 4 cylinder, kind os silly though except to pair a small and large one to limit 'lag'...Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE

[karmavore]

These guys are a brand new dealer here in Atlanta that I plan on buying my Esprit from. The people that matter *do* know what they are doing.

An honest mistake by whomever placed the add, I'm sure.

Luke.

>> Edited by karmavore on Friday 7th March 20:17

[lotusguy]

silver12r said: What's one of a kind about it????The way the ad reads it looks like what makes it "One of a Kind" is the twin turbos...

I think they're referring to the added upgrades and the extremly low mileage, which bye the way, considering they are a FL dealer, I would run two Carfax's on it to verify that mileage...Jim'85TE

[chrislotusatl]

Well, well, well it seems that we have run on the decendents of the group that cast the first stone. Look, if you would like to forward your questions to someone who really knows something about the car then you should call me, the salesperson. My boss got in a little bit of a twist the other day and posted that on Ebay out of spite. He has not had any experience with these cars but I have. I would like to take a moment to respond to a few critics who know sooooooo much.
a) you can have two turbo's off of one manifold or inline, don't you remember the last generation Supra?
b) he forgot to mention that it is an S4S which is special as it was only produced for two years and in limited quantity with larger Brembo brakes, chargecooler, O.Z. wheels(two piece) etc... and also remember it does only have 7k original miles.
c) I am not a "FLORIDA" dealer as the last time I checked Atlanta was in Georgia but I am sure that is a simple mistake and no one needs to be slaughtered for it like my business has been on this board. On another note, I used to work in and live in Florida and the people you really need to watch for are usually in flood states along the Mississippi!
d) Just a note for you as far as carfax is concerned, it does not work. If you need reference as to a company that can get you actual vehicle history just email me and I will give you the name. I have seen cars with two hung doors and enough paint work to make you wonder if anyone "survived" the accident that had a CLEAN carfax.
e) I want you all to know that I am probably the most honest and forthright dealer you will run across. I also spend more time visiting and learning and building repore with the factory's of the product line that I sell than anyone. I think that if you called up Arnie Johnson(CEO of Lotus Cars USA) he would vouch for me.

In closing, all I am trying to get across is that if someone made a slight error in an add listing why don't you just send us an email and let us know so that we may correct it. I would really appreciate the policing as you guys I am sure look at those things more than we do. I know you all love these cars and so do I!!! All I want to do is sell enough of them to be able to buy my own someday instead of just enjoying the inventory. If any of you live in the Atlanta area I would love for you to stop by like Karmavore did and introduce yourself and check out what I have to offer.

Thank you,

Chris Constantin
North Point Motorcars/Lotus of Atlanta
404-233-4269 x227
404-643-6603(cell)
www.thebimmerstore.com
[e-mail]

[lotusguy]

chrislotusatl said: Well, well, well it seems that we have run on the decendents of the group that cast the first stone. Look, if you would like to forward your questions to someone who really knows something about the car then you should call me, the salesperson. My boss got in a little bit of a twist the other day and posted that on Ebay out of spite. He has not had any experience with these cars but I have. I would like to take a moment to respond to a few critics who know sooooooo much.
a) you can have two turbo's off of one manifold or inline, don't you remember the last generation Supra?
b) he forgot to mention that it is an S4S which is special as it was only produced for two years and in limited quantity with larger Brembo brakes, chargecooler, O.Z. wheels(two piece) etc... and also remember it does only have 7k original miles.
c) I am not a "FLORIDA" dealer as the last time I checked Atlanta was in Georgia but I am sure that is a simple mistake and no one needs to be slaughtered for it like my business has been on this board. On another note, I used to work in and live in Florida and the people you really need to watch for are usually in flood states along the Mississippi!
d) Just a note for you as far as carfax is concerned, it does not work. If you need reference as to a company that can get you actual vehicle history just email me and I will give you the name. I have seen cars with two hung doors and enough paint work to make you wonder if anyone "survived" the accident that had a CLEAN carfax.
e) I want you all to know that I am probably the most honest and forthright dealer you will run across. I also spend more time visiting and learning and building repore with the factory's of the product line that I sell than anyone. I think that if you called up Arnie Johnson(CEO of Lotus Cars USA) he would vouch for me.

In closing, all I am trying to get across is that if someone made a slight error in an add listing why don't you just send us an email and let us know so that we may correct it. I would really appreciate the policing as you guys I am sure look at those things more than we do. I know you all love these cars and so do I!!! All I want to do is sell enough of them to be able to buy my own someday instead of just enjoying the inventory. If any of you live in the Atlanta area I would love for you to stop by like Karmavore did and introduce yourself and check out what I have to offer.

Thank you,

Chris Constantin
North Point Motorcars/Lotus of Atlanta
404-233-4269 x227
404-643-6603(cell)
www.thebimmerstore.com
[e-mail]

Hey chris,

RELAX... it was you who posted the erroneous ad. Don't come on this list and chastise those members trying to assist newer, less knowledgeable owners or potential owners.

The questions posed were appropriate given the inaccuracies in the ebay ad. And don't side step those by claiming your boss posted it out of spite??? What is spiteful about an inaccurate and deceiving ad? Who was he trying to spite? Why would he intentionally do anything to hinder the sale of one of his vehicles? Doesn't seem the action of a professional business person. I mean there's not just a couple things wrong with the ad, there are some blatant omissions, which should not come from a suppposed knowledgeable dealer, especially when tacking on such a heafty price. You have even failed to mention many of the differences of an S4s despite your claims of being so knowledgeable.

And, I think 'thou dost protest too much', considering the generally accepted reputation of 'Used Car Salesmen', my suspicions are peaked by your response even more. I wonder what's really the story with this car given that there are several inconsistencies to date. And, if you think knowing Arne Johnson somehow bolsters your reputation, well I know Arne Johnson as well, in fact spoke with him at length at the last annual Lotus Owner's Gathering. It's no special badge of honor...everybody knows Arne, it's his job to see that it is so.

Karnovore can certainly do as he pleases, but, given your overly defensive reply and the fact that there are several well established, long time, Lotus dealers in the Atlanta Area with excellent reputations, I'd personally feel much more comfortable dealing with them instead of some start-up and potential fly-by-night BMW dealer...Jim'85TE

[NLJdH]

Nice looking car though, you can see instantly it is an S4S from the photos.

Regards
Nicholas

[chrislotusatl]

Well well, aren't we a little bit frisky this morning. As for the ad, it was to spite the salespeople not the consumer. As for other reputable Lotus dealers in Atlanta, would you please name them out loud and then I will give reference to discredit that. I have gotten several customers due to someoneelses inconsistencies. As for fly by night BMW dealer, do you know that we have been in business for 9 years. That is the longest night I have ever heard of.
Look, I didn't mean to offend and you obviously did not read my whole reply. As for helping future Lotus buyers, how do you plan on doing that by posting snyde replys on message boards man? The only real problem with that add is that it says twin turbo which admittedly was a mistake made by someone in a hurry. I was just trying to clear the air and not looking for a snippy reply which includes several attacks at my integrity. If you would like to question my integrity please stop by and meet me first and read a book full of verifiable customer letters in my favor before you make such a damning accusation.
And I once again offer if you have anything to say to me, the man with no integrity or theif as I am sure you are implying, why would I post my personal cell phone number and personal email address? Give me a break, I was just trying to say I was sorry for the mistake in the add and ask why you guys are so critical. Good luck with everything and if I don't ever see you I am sorry that I somehow offended YOU and not the other way around. Like I said, if you want to come by and sit down and talk with me too see what kind of person I am before you shoot out all of that criticism I would appreciate it.

Thank you all again,

Chris Constantin

[NLJdH]

Chris,

Don't take all this too personally, even though some has been directed that way. People here often go overboard and losing it yourself isn't going to help anyone. You said what you needed to in your first response. It's an honest error, so that's that. Lotus owners/enthusiasts are often passionate about the cars and get pretty wild sometimes when they see something like this. As long as you know you are on the level, and you have a decent customer relations history, that's all that matters.

Regards,
Nicholas

[chrislotusatl]

Thank you Nicholas I appreciate that and take it too heart. You are right and I do understand the passion portion of it as I would love to have one. Another note, if anyone needs tickets to the Atlanta Auto show please call or email me as I have some for my customers and some for future customers. We will have a booth there and I would love to meet some of you. We will have an S2 Elise, '03 Esprit, and possibly a Panoz Esperante and a mystery car.

Thanks again,

Chris Constantin

[benfell100]

Hi Chris, glad you posted as you are possibly the first [in the trade] person to respond to something like that, that I know of. Normally those in the trade never do. That is probably why some of us respond in a slightly cynical manner. Plus there are lots of unscrupulous 'dodgy blokes' out there. the more vendors that do respond and give their side, the better. Shame it doesn't happen more.
Regardless of the ad [which may or may not be accurate, I don't care, lots of ads have something 'curious' about them] I think you have to see the car to buy it and get a run down from the salesperson anyway.
Look forward to your future input and I hope you get a car soon (Esprit)
Dom

[chrislotusatl]

Hey Dom,
Not a problem, I do a lot of questions answering on the Roadfly board with the Esprit and the Elise. I am happy to be here. I would happily answer any questions that anyone may have and if I do not have the answer I will most certainly find out and get back with you. As for the UK questions it might take a little bit longer.

Thanks again,

Chris Constantin

[Pvapour]

I personaly would'nt buy from a dealer that bites that easy and aggressively.

[lotusguy]

Chris,

Clearly you misunderstood as well as misinterpreted my reply. I too initially inferred that your ad was not malicious in it's intent, simply wrong.

Then, you come back with a defensive reply of near-nuclear proportion, with some disjointed references to your Boss's spiteful nature, your purported knowledge of these cars and intimacy with Arne Johnson.

If you carefully read my post, I don't believe I impuned your integrity at all. I did point out the somewhat widely accepted view that many used car salespeople are unscrupulous, but never referred to you personally in that light.

Your ad improperly stated that the car had twin turbos, but failed to identify the car as an S4s. Then in your reply, you claim to be the knowledgeable one but again fail to mention the upgraded ECU and the big valve 'Zeus' head, which are perhaps the two most unique hallmarks of this model, so naturally, I remain unimpressed.

I never called your operation a fly-by-night, or perhaps the word potential didn't come up on your crt. My references to your dealership being a start-up were made due to karmavore's statement that you were a new dealer. I live in Minneapolis and so I have no direct knowledge, but I accepted his statement at face value as he seems to live in the area and has visited your shop. If I have erred in this regard, please accept my apologies.

This appears to be a nice car, but without an ownership and service history, a mechanic's check and a personal inspection, this is far from certain in my mind. And, if you truly know as much about these cars as you claim, you might consider downplaying the low mileage aspect of this car as failure to regularly drive these cars can result in greater problems and higher maintenance costs to any potential buyer. An extremely low mileage car as opposed to a car with 'normal' mileage is actually less desireable to anyone who knows these cars.

For one thing, all the belts and hoses should be replaced, especially the timing belt, which can be very costly to someone incapable of doing the work themselves. All the fluids will require changing and the potential exists for corrosion problems in the braking and clutch systems resulting in a lowered lifespan of the calipers and master cylinders due to low mileage use and what I assume is the original fluid still in the system, which by now posesses a high moisture content. I have a friend who recently bought a rebuilt transmission which had sat for a few years. Upon opening the box, he discovered that due to corrosion and pitting from moisture which invaded the box, all the internals are unusable, even though they are essentially new. The potential exists for the same problems with this car as well.

You have received several replies from fellow listers who commend your attitude and explain any negative posts as passionate owners. I too hope you are as honest and fair as you claim, God knows we don't need another crook pawning off many of these cars as being in better condition than they truly are to some unsuspecting, Love Struck, buyer.

But considering the number of posts we receive regularly from new owners who have been the victims of unscupulous POs and dealers, I guess I am reluctant to so quickly give anyone the benefit of the doubt. So, good luck to you, hope you sell this car and acquire one of your own. I anxiously wait for you to prove me wrong, and actually hope that you do. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE

>> Edited by lotusguy on Saturday 8th March 21:32

>> Edited by lotusguy on Saturday 8th March 21:37

[kylie]

Chris... I wish you well in your future in dealing with lotus cars. Perhaps you should see if you could change your ad on ebay if its not too late? In my own opinion Jim does have a point about the mileage and things that need to be done. Someone quoted in another post "If you dont use it, you lose it", which is so true. If I was the lucky buyer of that stunning black machine, I would asking a pretty heafty gaurantee on it.
Anyway best of luck,
Kylie
89 Blk Esp Turbo

[NLJdH]

To be fair, Chris did point out he didn't write the ad himself therefore it's not plausible to criticise his level of knowledge from it.

Also, I have seen ads much worse than anything here. Ads that have claimed pre 93 cars to have post 93 features like PS, and even some inventing features into the cars like active suspension (would have been nice though ) and climate control (rather than just AC)! Ads also that get the monikers mixed up terribly... I could go on with full examples but you get the idea.

Lastly, I have been and talked to many dealers with long Esprit experience who don't know all the details to the depth of the average enthusiast. And knowing about the ported head on the S4S/S300 and that the casting on all post 93 slant fours was done by Zues is not exactly common knowledge even among enthusiasts! The most a dealer has told me is that it is similar to the S300 motor with a different version hybrid turbo etc even though there is far more that is different.

The mileage issue is pretty much correct, but with one important note: It isn't so much important that the car has done many miles or it hasn't in so much as it is used regularly. So, in other words, the car may have only covered 7K but if it was used every week, that lies more in its favour as opposed to if there were large intervals between use. Service history should give a clue to this in whether the services were carried out on the specified schedules, since a dormant car will generally miss the alloted time intervals as well as mileage ones. One of my Esprits has only 20K on it although it is 11 years old. There is no problem with the car though because it has been serviced and run regularly (just not very far ).

But the most important point is that Chris didn'twrite the ad, if he had, I'm sure then it would be reasonable to criticise his knowledge.

Regards,
Nicholas

[cnh1990]

Jim,
Would he be any worse than the sales people at Downtown? The club supplied the people to work the new car auto show. Once we were through with the Lotus questions and they wanted financing options, I don't know about you but I flipped them back at the sales people. Even Fox Valley had to start somewhere, you should have listen to some of the people they used to have at the old place. They are pretty good now.
Calvin

[lotusguy]

Nicolas, Bennefell, Kylie, Calvin et al,

Before you all rush to get your stick pins and Lotusguy Voo Doo Doll, let me try to bring this thread into perspective.

My initial post was to answer a queery by Silver12r who astutely spotted the eBay ad and called some inconsistencies into question. I replied (paraphrasing), that being a BMW dealer, it wasn't surprising that they got the ad wrong which, seems a fair assessment, I mean why should a Bimmer dealer have any in-depth knowledge of another brand? I did not question their integrity, only their lack of knowledge which the ad clearly demonstrated.

Then, this Chris, the sales person, posts an inflammatory reply beginning with "Well, well, well it seems that we have run on the decendents of the group that cast the first stone. Look, if you would like to forward your questions to someone who really knows something about the car then you should call me, the salesperson."

This seemed an admonishment to Silver12r that he should only seek the proper knowledge from the very people who posted the erroneous ad in the first place. This logic seems flawed to me.

This 'lurker', in his very first post, was telling a lister:" Look, if you would like to forward your questions to someone who really knows something about the car then you should call me, the salesperson....". He then went on to make some derogatory remarks to the people, me amongst them, who innocently tried to assist Silver12r.

I then tried to calm this salesperson by beginning my reply with a plea to RELAX. I went on to point out the innacuracies and the disjointed explanation of the ad's errors along with some blatant omissions such as model type and the unique differences of this rare variant. I erroneously called the dealership a start-up, as karmavore said that they were new, for which I apologized.

I mentioned that some salespeople lack integrity, which I'm sure you'll agree is a widely held view with some modicum of truth behind it. I never called either this Chris or his dealership crooked or dishonest. It was undoubtedly his interpretation that I did, but the fact remains I made no such accusation. Should I determine someone is being dishonest or intentionally evasive, I will not shroud my accusation in inuendo or implication, my accusation will be very clear.

Interestingly, I ran this car's VIN number (SCCFD30C8SHF63071) on Carfax's free odo check and the odo check did come up clean, but it also indicated that there are 8 other, non-odo related notations in this car's history file.

This, in and of itself, does not necessarily constitute anything negative, nor does it eliminate any such possibility. I am not willing to spend the $20 odd dollars to get the full history on a car I have no interest in purchasing merely for the sake of arguement. But, it does indicate that there is additional information about this car that we are unaware of, possibly a collision history?

And, what weight should I assign the coincidence that this Chris has already discredited Carfax in one of his previous posts and failed to acknowledge these notations?

Frankly, I don't know, but there does seem to be several layers to the facts here. It could all be well and innocent, then again... If I was contemplating plopping down $30k on this car, I would certainly want to find out the nature of these notations before I actually did.

I know the listers here are good, honest, kind, fair and generally peace loving. I believe that I am as well. And, if I err in my cynicism, I much prefer that error to favor a new owner or potential one rather than a salesman who could be trying to perpetrate something untoward. I hope you can understand my intent. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE



>> Edited by lotusguy on Sunday 9th March 09:24

>> Edited by lotusguy on Sunday 9th March 09:33

[karmavore]

"Karnovore can certainly do as he pleases, but, given your overly defensive reply and the fact that there are several well established, long time, Lotus dealers in the Atlanta Area"
----

The bottom line for me is this: there are TWO Lotus dealers in ATL, one new and one old, so contacted them both. The first though a form on their website and the latter though a gushing, virginal, embarrassingly saccharin email in which I practically begged the great dealer of beautiful cars to sell me one. They never acknowledged me, but Chris did. Quickly too.

Sometime later I visited Chris' dealership and he was not only extremely accommodating, but extremely knowledgeable.

New Guy 1, Old Guy 0. Deal sealed. Nuff said.

Luke.


>> Edited by karmavore on Sunday 9th March 15:34

[lotusguy]

karmavore said: "Karnovore can certainly do as he pleases, but, given your overly defensive reply and the fact that there are several well established, long time, Lotus dealers in the Atlanta Area"
----

The bottom line for me is this: there are TWO Lotus dealers in ATL, one new and one old, so contacted them both. The first though a form on their website and the latter though a gushing, virginal, embarrassingly saccharin email in which I practically begged the great dealer of beautiful cars to sell me one. They never acknowledged me, but Chris did. Quickly too.

Sometime later I visited Chris' dealership and he was not only extremely accommodating, but extremely knowledgeable.

New Guy 1, Old Guy 0. Deal sealed. Nuff said.

Luke.


>> Edited by karmavore on Sunday 9th March 15:34

Luke,

Good for you. I hope you enjoy the car and have great luck and sucess with it! Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE