Chargecooler performance mod may interest you.
Discussion
Took the new Lotus (1989 se) to a local, and extremly well respected mechanic. He has built cars for Paul Newman, Chysler's baja team and CAD developed an underhood super charger for Jeep Cherokes. Anyway, I asked him how to get more horsepower from the little engine, aside from increasing the boost and helping the car breath better. My first statement to him was "how about a bigger chargecooler". He responded by saying that wasn't neccessary, that one should be good up to about 350Hp (that surprised me. He said that they manufacture what is essentialy a small AC system for the chargecooler and that it will make a big difference in power. I didn't ask any details because he was very busy. I'm scheduled to take the car in 1 week from today. If any of you have specific questions you would like me to ask him, just let me know. He also says that that 4cyl is a very well built and tough little motor. He couldn't stress enough that you MUST keep up with preventive maintnace on these cars or the will eat you alive.
Philip
Philip
Sounds interesting Philip, I have done some similar things to my car to test these extra cooling modifications. I am building an S4 motor to S300+ spec to produce 350-70bhp. I tried running the engine on air from the AC on full cold using a temporary modification and it didn't help at low speeds (obviously) but once the motor warmed up , it really improved the bite of the engine at higher revs. Your guy's idea sounds like a supercooling of the already effective chargecooling system; whereas mine supplies already pure cold air into airbox, into the turbo and then through to the cooler. This helps run the turbo cooler too which is very important at 350bhp+ on this engine. Mind you I will use a better turbo than the stock at that power! I have also been advised not to get a bigger chargecooler housing but, instead, to concentrate on larger radiators instead. This is the way I'm going to go for now once I get the AC permanently connected to the engine intake system. I don't know really which would be more effective, be interesting to find out, maybe your guy would know?
The other solution I have ever used was pure oxygen leak into the carb on racing Minis, that won a few races, but the motor didn't survive too long... not recommended on your Lotus.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92SE,03V8)
The other solution I have ever used was pure oxygen leak into the carb on racing Minis, that won a few races, but the motor didn't survive too long... not recommended on your Lotus.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92SE,03V8)
Hi,
There are chargecooler systems which use refrigeration rather than simply coolant to increase the density of the charge. But, in an Esprit, these are not likely to create much improvement.
First, there is no free lunch, once you add the weight penalty of a compressor and associated plumbing and account for the horsepower it draws, I doubt that any subtle increase in charge density will be much or even make up for added loss. And don't forget, if you overcool the charge, your boost pressure will drop correspondingly.
Now, theoretically, this can allow the turbo to be set for faster spinning (higher wastegate threshold), but unless you're having the work done on a dynomometer with appropriate changes to the fuel system (regulator, injectors, fuel pump) and the ECU (not to mention the clutch, tranny and brakes), it's all very arbitrary and can easily result in lower performance, reduced reliability and/or driveability. It doesn't really matter that the guy built cars for so & so, if he hasn't worked on an Esprit, or doesn't take the approach I've outlined, he's just being very arbitrary on your car and using anecdotal experience and methods.
Besides, what's wrong with the Esprit as it is? Not fast enough for you? Have you done the ECU upgrades? Can you even extract all it has to offer now? Are you that skilled a driver? If not, spend your money on a driver's course, it'll make a much bigger improvement in both the car and you.
If all you want is bragging rights (Mine's bigger than Your's), buy a Viper.
Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
There are chargecooler systems which use refrigeration rather than simply coolant to increase the density of the charge. But, in an Esprit, these are not likely to create much improvement.
First, there is no free lunch, once you add the weight penalty of a compressor and associated plumbing and account for the horsepower it draws, I doubt that any subtle increase in charge density will be much or even make up for added loss. And don't forget, if you overcool the charge, your boost pressure will drop correspondingly.
Now, theoretically, this can allow the turbo to be set for faster spinning (higher wastegate threshold), but unless you're having the work done on a dynomometer with appropriate changes to the fuel system (regulator, injectors, fuel pump) and the ECU (not to mention the clutch, tranny and brakes), it's all very arbitrary and can easily result in lower performance, reduced reliability and/or driveability. It doesn't really matter that the guy built cars for so & so, if he hasn't worked on an Esprit, or doesn't take the approach I've outlined, he's just being very arbitrary on your car and using anecdotal experience and methods.
Besides, what's wrong with the Esprit as it is? Not fast enough for you? Have you done the ECU upgrades? Can you even extract all it has to offer now? Are you that skilled a driver? If not, spend your money on a driver's course, it'll make a much bigger improvement in both the car and you.
If all you want is bragging rights (Mine's bigger than Your's), buy a Viper.
Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
NLJdH said: The other solution I have ever used was pure oxygen leak into the carb on racing Minis, that won a few races, but the motor didn't survive too long... not recommended on your Lotus.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92SE,03V8)
Nicholas,
Mui Grosso Cajones, or mui loco cabesa... driving a car with a bottle of pure O² on public roads is illegal and not to mention not really very bright. A real safety hazard. Hope we don't share any roads...what color is your car? Just so I know who to avoid.
... Jim'85TE
lotusguy said:And don't forget, if you overcool the charge, your boost pressure will drop correspondingly.
Sorry to jump in to your thread but this just caught my eye, it is surprising how many people seem to think boost pressure is a good thing. It isn't, what produces power is charge density. Boost pressure is just a side effect, and if you can get rid of it by cooling then you absolutely should go for it. If you take cooling to extremes eventually you will run into trouble but realistically on a boosted car engine you aren't going to get anywhere near those limits, so the colder you can get the charge the better.
Let me see if I rear the original post correctly... First your mechinic states that you don't need a bigger chargecooler yours should be good to 350 hp (I'll agree that it's good to 350hp) But then he suggests an AC system for cooling the charge air... So, lets steal some horsepower from the engine to spin an AC compressor to get cooler charge air so we get more horsepower...
If cooler air is better, why not install a larger charge cooler ? or improve the system with a better pump ? instead of robbing horsepower to run an AC compressor...
If cooler air is better, why not install a larger charge cooler ? or improve the system with a better pump ? instead of robbing horsepower to run an AC compressor...
Just one more thing. Yes, I am more than capable of extracting the cars current potential. Not that it's a huge feat, but I used to instruct for the Porsche club events. We have a great road racing track here and are about to open what Road & Track reffers to as one of, if not the best track in North America.
philip5 said: Just one more thing. Yes, I am more than capable of extracting the cars current potential. Not that it's a huge feat, but I used to instruct for the Porsche club events. We have a great road racing track here and are about to open what Road & Track reffers to as one of, if not the best track in North America.
Philip,
I was not trying to impune your abilities which was why I asked the question of your skill level. Too many Esprit owners go about 'pumping up' their cars without even the slightest improvement to the driver as if doing so will make up for deficiencies in the other. This has the potential for increasing someone's risk as they now have a car they are even less able to exploit and control. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
lotusguy said:
Nicholas,
Mui Grosso Cajones, or mui loco cabesa... driving a car with a bottle of pure O² on public roads is illegal and not to mention not really very bright. A real safety hazard. Hope we don't share any roads...what color is your car? Just so I know who to avoid.
Jim (LotusGuy),
I am not aware of the infringement since the oxygen bleed was used on (as I mentioned in my post) racing cars, therefore on racetracks, in competition. I don't drive unsafely on public roads in any car.
Hope you feel safer with me on the roads now.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92SE,03V8)
You are correct, Mickey, the SCCA competion spec did make use of the extra rad.
The replica cars did include this too as standard. It does make a difference. Not because in itself it ads power, but because at prolonged higher performance thresholds it compensates against the exra heat that is absorbed from the engine bay to the Chargecooler.
Regards,
Nicholas
The replica cars did include this too as standard. It does make a difference. Not because in itself it ads power, but because at prolonged higher performance thresholds it compensates against the exra heat that is absorbed from the engine bay to the Chargecooler.
Regards,
Nicholas
Unfortunantly I am not a lotus esprit owner YET but I have some experience on getting more HP out of 4 cylinder saab engines. I actually have a 88 saab 900 SPG which is in the process of being tuned to over 400 HP. I will be using a aquamist 2c h2o injection system as well as several other upgrades to accomplish my goals. Many people I know have used the h20 systems on their old saab which has allowed for very large HP gains especially in the heat of the summer! I would highly suggest looking at this upgrade for your lotus.
This is a very interesting topic.
Regaurding the use of all out refrigirant from the AC system. Ford is actually getting ready to put some of this technology into production with its Lighting sport truck. For those of you that arn't familiar with this truck it is as fast as our 4 cylinder cars right out of the box in a straight line.
Ford has designed a system that will introduce freon from the AC system directly to the trucks intercooler for short bursts, super cooling the air charge. Basically it will last for up to 30 seconds after you press the button, and it will add an additional 50hp to the supercharged intercooled V8.
The AC system will then recharge itself in roughly 2 to 3 minutes I beleive.
Very interesting. Could get annoying, but hey they found away to get 50 free horsepower without sacrificing drivability so more power to them.
Just a thought.
Great discussion guys keep it going.
Andy
94 S4
Regaurding the use of all out refrigirant from the AC system. Ford is actually getting ready to put some of this technology into production with its Lighting sport truck. For those of you that arn't familiar with this truck it is as fast as our 4 cylinder cars right out of the box in a straight line.
Ford has designed a system that will introduce freon from the AC system directly to the trucks intercooler for short bursts, super cooling the air charge. Basically it will last for up to 30 seconds after you press the button, and it will add an additional 50hp to the supercharged intercooled V8.
The AC system will then recharge itself in roughly 2 to 3 minutes I beleive.
Very interesting. Could get annoying, but hey they found away to get 50 free horsepower without sacrificing drivability so more power to them.
Just a thought.
Great discussion guys keep it going.
Andy
94 S4
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