6 Speed Sequential Gearbox for Esprit 4 Cyl
Discussion
er, no - its 8k for just the box. You need to add on the price of a bespoke clutch, drive shafts, gear linkage, bellhousing, flywheel. You're probably looking at nearer 10k for the whole think.
Quaife actually have a demonstrator esprit v8, plus i heard there is one car in the usa with this box. I don't know of any others.
Quaife actually have a demonstrator esprit v8, plus i heard there is one car in the usa with this box. I don't know of any others.
I was talking about the Quaife six speed box a little while ago, you can find it by searching the forum for "quaife" it should bring up the threads.
You can check out the prices for it here
www.cars.u-net.com/lotus/esprit.htm
£10,545.63 inc VAT for the box
£1139.75 inc VAT for the sequential gear change linkage
You can check out the prices for it here
www.cars.u-net.com/lotus/esprit.htm
£10,545.63 inc VAT for the box
£1139.75 inc VAT for the sequential gear change linkage
I have been curious about this for some time, they also list a H pattern syncro for the Esprit on the site. However, apparently there is no linkage available yet.... 
Surprising as they'd make a killing in the after market trade if this were to be introduced. Unless, of course, the website is inaccurate and there isn't a H typ syncro and it is actually something else entirely.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92 SE HW)
Surprising as they'd make a killing in the after market trade if this were to be introduced. Unless, of course, the website is inaccurate and there isn't a H typ syncro and it is actually something else entirely.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92 SE HW)
Hi,
There is nothing inherently wrong with either the Citroen or Renault gearboxes in the Esprit. True, they have a limit to the power they can tramit, but so do the gearboxes of a Diesel tractor. Exceed these limits, and you'll end up in trouble. To be sure, advances in both engineering and materials science make today's gearboxes more robust aloowing you to push the design limits a little further.
Lotus spec'd these gearboxes for the stock power of their engines and for street use. Under these circumstances, the gearbox will outlast many other components, including the engine.
Many driver's don't really know how to drive a manual box. They don't warm the gearbox up in the first few miles of driving, shift early, or at the wrong speed (rpm), ride the clutch, use the transmission for braking the car, use the wrong tranny fluid. They don't know how or don't incorporate 'double clutching' in their driving.
In normal driving, you should never really downshift to come to a stop. You should, anticipating the stop, come off the gas and allow the brakes to stop the car. You create incredible excess wear on the gearbox, clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing, crank etc. when downshifting to stop the car. Of course, in an unanticipated stop, downshifting is necessary, but if you adopt a style of driving to avoid downshifting, you'll preserve your car substantially. Granted, it doesn't sound as cool, but the tradeoff is $$$ in added maintenance costs. And remember, brakes cost nothing to replace compared to a clutch, bearings, synchros etc. This is my style of driving and when I opened my gearbox at 40K mi. to rebuild it (not because it was needed, but because it was out for my engine rebuild. No component required replacing including my 2nd gear synchro. There were no wear marks on the dogs or the CWP. And, this is the old Citroen box. I do not baby the car at all and have tracked it many times. I did replace the synchros, but the old ones are in such great shape (little visible wear), I am able to keep them as spares.
The main enemy of any gearbox is a poor driver. The second biggest threat is heat. Several Esprit owners have installed transmission coolers which allows them to exceed the limits with no problems. If you are tracking the car regularly, this may be a better option than opting for a $16,000USD Quaife tranny. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
There is nothing inherently wrong with either the Citroen or Renault gearboxes in the Esprit. True, they have a limit to the power they can tramit, but so do the gearboxes of a Diesel tractor. Exceed these limits, and you'll end up in trouble. To be sure, advances in both engineering and materials science make today's gearboxes more robust aloowing you to push the design limits a little further.
Lotus spec'd these gearboxes for the stock power of their engines and for street use. Under these circumstances, the gearbox will outlast many other components, including the engine.
Many driver's don't really know how to drive a manual box. They don't warm the gearbox up in the first few miles of driving, shift early, or at the wrong speed (rpm), ride the clutch, use the transmission for braking the car, use the wrong tranny fluid. They don't know how or don't incorporate 'double clutching' in their driving.
In normal driving, you should never really downshift to come to a stop. You should, anticipating the stop, come off the gas and allow the brakes to stop the car. You create incredible excess wear on the gearbox, clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing, crank etc. when downshifting to stop the car. Of course, in an unanticipated stop, downshifting is necessary, but if you adopt a style of driving to avoid downshifting, you'll preserve your car substantially. Granted, it doesn't sound as cool, but the tradeoff is $$$ in added maintenance costs. And remember, brakes cost nothing to replace compared to a clutch, bearings, synchros etc. This is my style of driving and when I opened my gearbox at 40K mi. to rebuild it (not because it was needed, but because it was out for my engine rebuild. No component required replacing including my 2nd gear synchro. There were no wear marks on the dogs or the CWP. And, this is the old Citroen box. I do not baby the car at all and have tracked it many times. I did replace the synchros, but the old ones are in such great shape (little visible wear), I am able to keep them as spares.
The main enemy of any gearbox is a poor driver. The second biggest threat is heat. Several Esprit owners have installed transmission coolers which allows them to exceed the limits with no problems. If you are tracking the car regularly, this may be a better option than opting for a $16,000USD Quaife tranny. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
Thanks Jim,
Agree with your comment, tend to drive my car that way all the time, dealer told me never to track it so I avoid the invites.
I believe the same goes for clutches too really.
However, when trying to take, say my 4cyl to 350bhp, I have been told this is fine for the box, just clutch needs changing. But when pushing the V8 cars to their capable 450bhp+, what do you do? I mean this lack of investment in a gearbox for the 'supercar' is precisely how Lotus kept the Esprit down. They may have had reason to think this was okay as selling the V8 over the last 6 years hasn't been hard even with the low power (i.e. 300bhp 4pot single turbo v 350 bhp V8 twin turbo?
)
But the end user might want the car to continue to set pace next to the next generation of supercars in the coming years. I certainly don't plan to retire my Esprit(s) any time soon even if Lotus has. And I'm pretty sure their next 'Esprit' won't be as charismatic or involving if it doesn't bankrupt them to produce it.
The whinging aside, I welcome the possibility of Esprit life extention through an after market box. I mean it's not as if the chassis or body are going to corrode away... or the handling will become unable to compete with the other vehicles. But the power already has.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92K SE HW)
Agree with your comment, tend to drive my car that way all the time, dealer told me never to track it so I avoid the invites.
I believe the same goes for clutches too really.
However, when trying to take, say my 4cyl to 350bhp, I have been told this is fine for the box, just clutch needs changing. But when pushing the V8 cars to their capable 450bhp+, what do you do? I mean this lack of investment in a gearbox for the 'supercar' is precisely how Lotus kept the Esprit down. They may have had reason to think this was okay as selling the V8 over the last 6 years hasn't been hard even with the low power (i.e. 300bhp 4pot single turbo v 350 bhp V8 twin turbo?
) But the end user might want the car to continue to set pace next to the next generation of supercars in the coming years. I certainly don't plan to retire my Esprit(s) any time soon even if Lotus has. And I'm pretty sure their next 'Esprit' won't be as charismatic or involving if it doesn't bankrupt them to produce it.
The whinging aside, I welcome the possibility of Esprit life extention through an after market box. I mean it's not as if the chassis or body are going to corrode away... or the handling will become unable to compete with the other vehicles. But the power already has.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92K SE HW)
lotusguy said: Hi,
There is nothing inherently wrong with either the Citroen or Renault gearboxes in the Esprit. True, they have a limit to the power they can tramit, but so do the gearboxes of a Diesel tractor. Exceed these limits, and you'll end up in trouble. To be sure, advances in both engineering and materials science make today's gearboxes more robust aloowing you to push the design limits a little further.
Lotus spec'd these gearboxes for the stock power of their engines and for street use. Under these circumstances, the gearbox will outlast many other components, including the engine.
Many driver's don't really know how to drive a manual box. They don't warm the gearbox up in the first few miles of driving, shift early, or at the wrong speed (rpm), ride the clutch, use the transmission for braking the car, use the wrong tranny fluid. They don't know how or don't incorporate 'double clutching' in their driving.
In normal driving, you should never really downshift to come to a stop. You should, anticipating the stop, come off the gas and allow the brakes to stop the car. You create incredible excess wear on the gearbox, clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing, crank etc. when downshifting to stop the car. Of course, in an unanticipated stop, downshifting is necessary, but if you adopt a style of driving to avoid downshifting, you'll preserve your car substantially. Granted, it doesn't sound as cool, but the tradeoff is $$$ in added maintenance costs. And remember, brakes cost nothing to replace compared to a clutch, bearings, synchros etc. This is my style of driving and when I opened my gearbox at 40K mi. to rebuild it (not because it was needed, but because it was out for my engine rebuild. No component required replacing including my 2nd gear synchro. There were no wear marks on the dogs or the CWP. And, this is the old Citroen box. I do not baby the car at all and have tracked it many times. I did replace the synchros, but the old ones are in such great shape (little visible wear), I am able to keep them as spares.
The main enemy of any gearbox is a poor driver. The second biggest threat is heat. Several Esprit owners have installed transmission coolers which allows them to exceed the limits with no problems. If you are tracking the car regularly, this may be a better option than opting for a $16,000USD Quaife tranny. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
NLJdH said: Thanks Jim,
Agree with your comment, tend to drive my car that way all the time, dealer told me never to track it so I avoid the invites.
I believe the same goes for clutches too really.
However, when trying to take, say my 4cyl to 350bhp, I have been told this is fine for the box, just clutch needs changing. But when pushing the V8 cars to their capable 450bhp+, what do you do? I mean this lack of investment in a gearbox for the 'supercar' is precisely how Lotus kept the Esprit down. They may have had reason to think this was okay as selling the V8 over the last 6 years hasn't been hard even with the low power (i.e. 300bhp 4pot single turbo v 350 bhp V8 twin turbo?
But the end user might want the car to continue to set pace next to the next generation of supercars in the coming years. I certainly don't plan to retire my Esprit(s) any time soon even if Lotus has. And I'm pretty sure their next 'Esprit' won't be as charismatic or involving if it doesn't bankrupt them to produce it.
The whinging aside, I welcome the possibility of Esprit life extention through an after market box. I mean it's not as if the chassis or body are going to corrode away... or the handling will become unable to compete with the other vehicles. But the power already has.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92K SE HW)
Nicholas,
There are many schools of thought on the matter. For me, I am not inclined to boost the Esprit's horsepower much higher than stock. If I wanted the biggest stable under the hood, I'd get a Viper. Since power is a component of a car's overall balance, too much horsepower in an Esprit will alter it's overall performance.
For those who want to 'pump up' their Esprits, eventually you will either need to replace the box, or harden and cryo treat the internal workings of the existing box and beef up the clutch.
Unless you're abusing the car or tracking it exclusively, it seems like a needless expenditure to me. Happy Motoring! Jim'85TE
I would also like to see a nice 6-speed H-pattern gearbox replacement for the Esprit that can handle some real HP and comes standard with a LSD. At some point I plan to add intercoolers to my V8 and at least update the ECM to the Hi-Torque version (for a 2000 MY). I just don't see the gearbox adding to the enjoyment of the car.
In general, I have yet to hear anyone say anything truly positive about the Renault gearbox in the latest Esprits. Granted, all you really read are statements like, "it's really not that bad", or "it really depends on the driver", etc. Bottom line, it's an ancient design, not capable of re-engineering to handle more power, always exhibits crappy shifting, has a weak second gear synchro... the list goes on, and above all, it's French.
I have found that in 13K miles my absolute number 1 compaint about the Esprit is the gearbox (second is the exhaust system, also of poor quality). I was thinking of getting the LSD for the gearbox, but my gearbox is getting so bad that I'm thinking about having it yanked and rebuilt while it's still under warranty. I've changed the fluid twice myself plus at the initial 1500 miles service. Shifting continues to get worse (all gears) sometimes you can't get it out of gear without some finesse and effort. The linkage is fine... clean and properly adjusted. The clutch is also fine, full disengagement, so the problem is in the box itself. It also has developed a leak at the right axle shaft seal (I know, yet another known issue on these boxes).
Needless to say, I think the box is bad enough that I'd rather save the $2200+ (for the LSD) and invest it into a better box setup entirely. Now if Quaife ever get off their dead butts and make the few missing bits, I think they could probably sell quite a few gearboxes to V8 owners and then some.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
In general, I have yet to hear anyone say anything truly positive about the Renault gearbox in the latest Esprits. Granted, all you really read are statements like, "it's really not that bad", or "it really depends on the driver", etc. Bottom line, it's an ancient design, not capable of re-engineering to handle more power, always exhibits crappy shifting, has a weak second gear synchro... the list goes on, and above all, it's French.
I have found that in 13K miles my absolute number 1 compaint about the Esprit is the gearbox (second is the exhaust system, also of poor quality). I was thinking of getting the LSD for the gearbox, but my gearbox is getting so bad that I'm thinking about having it yanked and rebuilt while it's still under warranty. I've changed the fluid twice myself plus at the initial 1500 miles service. Shifting continues to get worse (all gears) sometimes you can't get it out of gear without some finesse and effort. The linkage is fine... clean and properly adjusted. The clutch is also fine, full disengagement, so the problem is in the box itself. It also has developed a leak at the right axle shaft seal (I know, yet another known issue on these boxes).
Needless to say, I think the box is bad enough that I'd rather save the $2200+ (for the LSD) and invest it into a better box setup entirely. Now if Quaife ever get off their dead butts and make the few missing bits, I think they could probably sell quite a few gearboxes to V8 owners and then some.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
kmaier said: I would also like to see a nice 6-speed H-pattern gearbox replacement for the Esprit that can handle some real HP and comes standard with a LSD. At some point I plan to add intercoolers to my V8 and at least update the ECM to the Hi-Torque version (for a 2000 MY). I just don't see the gearbox adding to the enjoyment of the car.
Hi KM - hi-torque upgrade is definitely worth doing IMO. I did mine after i'd had my v8 for six months. Well worth it.
kmaier said: In general, I have yet to hear anyone say anything truly positive about the Renault gearbox in the latest Esprits.
Its light, and its cheap. Thats about it
kmaier said: ... sometimes you can't get it out of gear without some finesse and effort. The linkage is fine... clean and properly adjusted. The clutch is also fine, full disengagement, so the problem is in the box itself. It also has developed a leak at the right axle shaft seal (I know, yet another known issue on these boxes).
Suggest get the dealer to try a new clutch. My car has exibited the "wont come out of gear" problem intermittantly since i had the last clutch change (may 02). The dealer says its a known clutch problem (lubrication issue i think) and the fix is a new clutch - there is unlikely to be anything wrong with the box itself. I will most likely get a new clutch before the 12 month warranty on the part expires.
Regarding drive shaft seals.. tell me about it! After i had the rebuild last year i had to go back to the dealer three times to correct a mis-fitted drive shaft oil seal. They are really hard to get right apparently, so this is a common problem. Third time they got it spot on, been fine since.
kmaier said: Needless to say, I think the box is bad enough that I'd rather save the $2200+ (for the LSD) and invest it into a better box setup entirely. Now if Quaife ever get off their dead butts and make the few missing bits, I think they could probably sell quite a few gearboxes to V8 owners and then some.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
What missing bits? They have a demonstrator v8 with the sequential box already. The only issue as far as i'm concerned is the cash!
Quaife actually have a newer, lighter box (launched at the autosport show here in the uk a few months ago) which replaces the one on the CARS (les twig) web site.
This ONLY has sequential shift however.
Cheers
Rob
Got to agree with the last comments, as I said earlier, QUAIFE do a syncro H pattern version apparently ready for raod. However no linkage is ready yet so no fitting. I mean if they produce one, I'm sure it would be a hot seller for years since it would keep the esprit young for the next 10 years if not more!
Lotus' choice of the box may have seemed reasonable back in the 80's when out put was still around 200bhp but when the car entered the 90's with a push to 300 and beyond possible, and they knew the car still had years of production left plus a V8 on the horizon, then it is just typical of the way they shortchanged the cars design/concept and vision, not to mention customers, by not investing in a new box either in house or contracted. I mean if Quaife can do it for the end user, why can't Lotus get a partner for themselves? Well, not surprising when you consider that when Peter Stevens felt the interior should have been revamped in 87-89 when the exterior was done, they told him to take a hike.
As usual Lotus give us the very least they possibly can get away with. But I do feel that this is grossly unfair when I look at the effort they put into the Elise.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92K Esprit SE HW)
>> Edited by NLJdH on Friday 28th February 11:14
Lotus' choice of the box may have seemed reasonable back in the 80's when out put was still around 200bhp but when the car entered the 90's with a push to 300 and beyond possible, and they knew the car still had years of production left plus a V8 on the horizon, then it is just typical of the way they shortchanged the cars design/concept and vision, not to mention customers, by not investing in a new box either in house or contracted. I mean if Quaife can do it for the end user, why can't Lotus get a partner for themselves? Well, not surprising when you consider that when Peter Stevens felt the interior should have been revamped in 87-89 when the exterior was done, they told him to take a hike.
As usual Lotus give us the very least they possibly can get away with. But I do feel that this is grossly unfair when I look at the effort they put into the Elise.
Regards,
Nicholas
(92K Esprit SE HW)
>> Edited by NLJdH on Friday 28th February 11:14
now it will like a faster version of the smart car. Hi Rob,
Yes, I forgot... tis cheap and light, enough said. From what I've heard, the 2000 MY in the US has the Sport 350 boost profiles as standard, hence the original High-Torque ECM. There is yet another upgrade which is for the 2000/2001 MY and then there is the upgrade for 1997-1999 MY. And yes, I will eventually do that.
I'm still thinking the clutch should be okay. When it does get stuck in gear, I usually have to work the shifter a bit to get it out. The other possibility may be the pilot bearing, ie, it gets hot and starts to bind up. Either way, I'll have it looked at while it's in for some warranty replacement parts next week. I will ask them about this being a known problem with related fix, so thanks for the info.
I'm not sure if this is typical, but I am changing gearbox lube everytime I change engine oil/filter at 4000 miles intervals. The gearbox lube always seem to come out very dirty, hence I think there is something wrong inside the box. Anyone else experiencing the same?
I feel for you on leaking driveshaft seals. A fellow club member recently bought a 1999 V8 with 22K miles. He stopped by a week ago and we threw it on the lift. Ugh... both drive shaft seals are leaking heavily and the case is leaking as well. It turns out there was some major work done before he got the car... the gearbox had been removed and disassembled, etc. One tell-tale sign was one of the bell housing bolts was not fully in... jammed no less. The mechanic, "Enrique" also did a cambelt service. He (mechanic) signed his name on the bottom of the oil filter and used the same yellow marker to "degree" the balancer on the front of the motor.
I guess one problem shared amongst all marques is having a good mechanic performing the work.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Yes, I forgot... tis cheap and light, enough said. From what I've heard, the 2000 MY in the US has the Sport 350 boost profiles as standard, hence the original High-Torque ECM. There is yet another upgrade which is for the 2000/2001 MY and then there is the upgrade for 1997-1999 MY. And yes, I will eventually do that.
I'm still thinking the clutch should be okay. When it does get stuck in gear, I usually have to work the shifter a bit to get it out. The other possibility may be the pilot bearing, ie, it gets hot and starts to bind up. Either way, I'll have it looked at while it's in for some warranty replacement parts next week. I will ask them about this being a known problem with related fix, so thanks for the info.
I'm not sure if this is typical, but I am changing gearbox lube everytime I change engine oil/filter at 4000 miles intervals. The gearbox lube always seem to come out very dirty, hence I think there is something wrong inside the box. Anyone else experiencing the same?
I feel for you on leaking driveshaft seals. A fellow club member recently bought a 1999 V8 with 22K miles. He stopped by a week ago and we threw it on the lift. Ugh... both drive shaft seals are leaking heavily and the case is leaking as well. It turns out there was some major work done before he got the car... the gearbox had been removed and disassembled, etc. One tell-tale sign was one of the bell housing bolts was not fully in... jammed no less. The mechanic, "Enrique" also did a cambelt service. He (mechanic) signed his name on the bottom of the oil filter and used the same yellow marker to "degree" the balancer on the front of the motor.
I guess one problem shared amongst all marques is having a good mechanic performing the work.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Easier said than done... pricey gearbox for starters. Plus you need a new bellhousing (Quaife make one for the V8) and new mountings for the gearbox plus new axle shafts. As I have little interest in the sequential box for street use, you still have the "unknown" on getting shifter linkage sorted. I've no idea if you can retrofit the existing shifter and cables to the Quaife unit.
Needless to say, it's a pretty large project with a big price tag and no guarenteed outcome. Ideally, I would like to see Quaife offer a complete kit for the Esprit. While they will not sell high numbers of them, they will get a decent number of buyers... especially for the V8 as it solves the biggest gap in the V8 drivetrain.
Regards, KM (longing for a Quaife 6-speed H-pattern setup)
2000 V8
Needless to say, it's a pretty large project with a big price tag and no guarenteed outcome. Ideally, I would like to see Quaife offer a complete kit for the Esprit. While they will not sell high numbers of them, they will get a decent number of buyers... especially for the V8 as it solves the biggest gap in the V8 drivetrain.
Regards, KM (longing for a Quaife 6-speed H-pattern setup)
2000 V8
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