prepaint preparation DIY ?

[teigan]

my car has tiny spider web crazing on most areas of the paintwork, so i've decided the only remedy is complete removal of old paint before the respray. has anyone personally gone through this ordeal? i'm wondering how many days it'll take me to carefully sand it all down myself. can i trust someone else to do it correctly?

[deecee]

The Spider Cracks are caused by Cracks in the Gel Coat, which means that they have to be ground down to the Fiberglass Mat, then Feather Sand the Edges with 120 Grit Sand Paper, followed by Resurfacing with a product like Evercoat's Feaher Fill...which is a High Build Primer/Filler.

From there, Wet Sand with 180, then 220 or 240, followed by 320 Grit.

As for whether you should do it or not...I don't know your skill level but Spider Crack Repairs are only an Amateur Project, if you can live with an Amateur Result.

[teigan]

don't like feather fill because it can't be wet sanded. i am as amateur as amateur gets, but the so called professionals have still managed to consistently deliver lower quality work. whatever happened to craftsmanship?

[kylie]

You could also use gelcoat if its really shallow crazing. You can wet sand that.

If you dont want to do it in the end, go to people who build fibreglass car bodies like hot rodders or similar high tech custom stuff. You can usually find some one who been there done that and got show car examples for proof of workmanship. When they paint it for you tell them to hit it with heat. >60degc for 1/2hr+ light colour car. Navy or black cars attract 80deg c in the sun so you want them to turn the heat dial up Post curing is very important to iron out further imperfections. You dont want to have to keep going back.

[ndixon]

you need to put an angle grinder to the car, to get a result like this

http://ndixon.home.cern.ch/ndixon/gri

then bond some figerglass tissue over the repair ( looks like kleenex )

then filler

A full body, like the Europa shown took about 18 months working in spare time, Admitedly at slow speed.
I guess a full car could be done working 3-4 weeks full time.

wear a mask, as glsass fibre is not to good on the lungs

Neil

[deecee]

teigan said:

don't like feather fill because it can't be wet sanded.

You don't know what you're talking about...

Hey, Tim..

>> Edited by deecee on Sunday 14th May 19:15

[teigan]

i don't pretend to know what i'm talking about, but in this case you are the one mistaken. the manufacturer specifically states that if wet sanding is required, then you must use their other product called slick sand.

[teigan]

i don't pretend to know what i'm talking about, but in this case you are the one mistaken. the manufacturer specifically states that if wet sanding is required, then you must use their other product called slick sand.

[82s3]

I'd leave it to a professional body shop with expertise in working on composite materials.

My S3 is currently with Option One Sportscars in Bromsgrove nr Birmingham for a full re-spray.

They've been EM-ing pictures so that I have a full photographic record of their work.

.... with luck & a fair wind I'll get the car back in around a fortnight, ..... they'll have had it for about four months!

>> Edited by 82s3 on Sunday 14th May 22:25

[deecee]

teigan said:

i don't pretend to know what i'm talking about, but in this case you are the one mistaken. the manufacturer specifically states that if wet sanding is required, then you must use their other product called slick sand.

They are one and the same, other than Slick Sand has more Solids for a Higher Mil Thickness and Either can be Wet Sanded.

Tell me where the Manufacturer "Specifically States" that it can't be Wet Sanded.

[teigan]

4 months! i was thinking a 40 hour workweek for 2 guys. suppose i can still drive the car with it in transition, provided i'm doing the work. would rather just pay someone though. i'll keep scouting around this summer. i appreciate everyone's input, including deecee; relax, i'm not here to argue with you. i happened to have some feather fill in the garage and was reading from the package notes. i'll probably follow kylie's advice and use plain polyester gel coat, because the cracking on my car is everywhere although tiny. i can even dye it the same color as the car so the patches aren't too noticable before final painting.

[deecee]

I also have the Instructions...so where does it say any of the things that you are claiming?

...and maybe you'll be able to pay for it with the money that you get from your Granny for your 15th Birthday...

Meanwhile, back in Fantasy Land...



>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 04:09

>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 04:11

>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 04:22

[teigan]

i'm puzzled. why would you want to pick a fight with someone innocently asking for advice? it would be counterproductive for me to alienate you in any way since i'm trying to get your help. i will do the honorable thing and not discredit you in front of this internet audience which seems so important to you in some inflated way. you are welcome to contact the manufacturer off forum if you can't let go of such a trivial detail regarding a minor consumer product. don't you wish you had a time machine?

[deecee]

[quote=teigan]i happened to have some feather fill in the garage and was reading from the package notes. [quote]

OK, turn to the Evercoat's Product Information Sheet (505-FF-PIS).

So, which part of Paragraph 3, "Features and Benefits", where it states: "Wet or Dry Sands Easily with Fine Grit Sandpaper." didn't you understand?

In addition...there is No Reference to Slick Sand, what so ever, on any of these pages.

And No, there is Not 2 Versions of the Instruction...I called Evercoat and confirmed that fact.

1 Instruction Sheet...Never been Changed...has been around for Years...

The actual document can be accessed by clicking onto "deecee" in the top left corner of this post and then click on the document to automatically enlarge it...

Gee...Thanks for allowing me to Save Face. LOL






>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 17:30

>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 17:32

>> Edited by deecee on Monday 15th May 18:03

[deecee]

"hi all. i'm new here. i just purchased an '84 esprit turbo. it's a mess! i noticed you are discussing the practicality of CF parts. i agree that CF does not help much on weight. it is however stiffer than steel. you could actually build your chassis entirely of carbon fiber cost unprohibited. as for my esprit, the first part i'll be making is a front spoiler. the current one is breached, and the previous owners were both timid drivers. i'm sure scraping bottom is a common occurence, which is why a kevlar front spoiler is way practical. it would flex and yet be bulletproof to scraping bottom. by using black tinted resin, i could mimic the carbon fibre look. not sure i like the CF look. too trendy. if any of you need parts, call me. i do my own molds. i'm planning on replacing every panel on the vehicle eventually. i've done it before for stock car racing."

-Teigan's first post in October, 2004.

There seems to be some Confusion.......

[teigan]

remember i did warn you, and if you must persist in this, you are the one making yourself look ridiculous. this incident has obviously consumed and tortured you. i am reading right off the package, and i am not so insecure that i need to scan a bucket to change your mind. i purchased the product from aircraft spruce circa 2003, and if anyone wishes to check their current catalog, it says in bold letters DO NOT WET SAND. this document is also available online. www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/featherfill.php
feather fill was very pourous when i applied it, and with all those holes, wet sanding would be pointless. for any further verification it's best to contact the manufacturer ECI directly, since they are paid to have these sorts of discussions. i felt sorry for you, and was willing to drop the whole thing and let you salvage some dignity.
so don't hold a grudge, or resort to vandalism. i tried my best to spare you any emotional distress. when i was 15, i was slightly entertained by complete strangers insisting on being humiliated, but like anything else, it all gets very repetetive.

You obviously didn't notice that the top of the Instruction Sheet has Todays Date and the Phone Number is Evercoat's (ECI's) Fax Number...they sent it today.

So, what has Building an Aircraft got to do with Priming a Lotus?

By the way, it has Nothing to do with Pinholes, the reason that you Never Wet Sand an Aircraft is...

...but the again, someone like you who has built Molds and made those Carbon Fiber Stock Car Bodies would already know the answer. LOL

[teigan]

polyester primer soaks up moisture like a sponge. only a fool would want to add water and set themselves up for delamination. the reason has no specifics to aircraft, but you are in desperation mode. i happen to buy from spruce because they are local to me.

[kylie]

teigan said:

polyester primer soaks up moisture like a sponge. only a fool would want to add water and set themselves up for delamination. the reason has no specifics to aircraft, but you are in desperation mode. i happen to buy from spruce because they are local to me.

Here here fellas I will put you both in the corner with hands on your head

Just be careful when listing "how to do" DIY projects on here. Many people use this site hoping to hear the right answers, I would be peed off if some numpty gave me incorrect info. I am not saying you dont have the correct info, but I will add to this in the best interest of others.....With regards to wet sanding, I have personally done quite a bit of practical work here and set things up for spraying as you suggest not to. IMO if the prep is done right and things are properly dry (heat cured after wetsanding and left over night in warm area) theres no reason why you cant. A final wiping with prepsol on the area will help remove surfave residues for painting too.

Will leave it back to you fellas

[deecee]

kylie said:

teigan said: polyester primer soaks up moisture like a sponge. only a fool would want to add water and set themselves up for delamination. the reason has no specifics to aircraft, but you are in desperation mode. i happen to buy from spruce because they are local to me. Here here fellas I will put you both in the corner with hands on your head Just be careful when listing "how to do" DIY projects on here. Many people use this site hoping to hear the right answers, I would be peed off if some numpty gave me incorrect info. I am not saying you dont have the correct info, but I will add to this in the best interest of others.....With regards to wet sanding, I have personally done quite a bit of practical work here and set things up for spraying as you suggest not to. IMO if the prep is done right and things are properly dry (heat cured after wetsanding and left over night in warm area) theres no reason why you cant. A final wiping with prepsol on the area will help remove surfave residues for painting too. Will leave it back to you fellas

First off...

1) Polyesther Primer Does Not Soak up Water...Don't take my word for it, call any Body Shop Supply Company or Paint Manufacturer.

2) Aircraft are Typically made out of Aluminum...During Wet Sanding, the Water may Microscopically corrode the Aluminum surface and cause the lack of Adhesion. Those people familiar with Sanding a Metal Car Bodied Car are probably familiar with the advice to Acid Etch the bare spots prior to Priming...Similar problem. Don't take my word for it, call any company that specializes in Aircraft Painting.

3) Feather Fill is a Catalyzed Polyesther product...In other words it generates its own heat in order to affect a Cure. I've worked in several shops that had Bake Tunnels and I've never heard of baking a car after priming...let alone one with Catalyzed Primer. Don't take my word for it, call any Body Shop.

Just One Other Thing...

I completed my 3 year apprenticeship as an Auto Body Mechanic at NAIT (the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology) in Edmonton, Canada in the late 70's, when I got out of High School.

I worked as a Professional Bodyman and Painter in the Edmonton area with companies such as Double 5 Autobody, Fane & Robinson, Michael's, Northgate Pontiac Buick, Mickay Fith, Vette Set and A&D...to name afew.

I moved to Los Angeles in the early 80s, where I worked for Bob Lisko @ BJ's in Camarillo, Jim Nailor @ Autographics in Oxnard and California Custom Coaches in Thousand Oaks.

Autographics once did a Custom for Liberace using Crushed Industrial Diamonds instead of Metal Flake.

California Custom Coaches did alot of Customs for the Movies and the Television Industry...although their Rival, George Barris, seemed to alway get the Credit.

At BJ's, my Specialty was the talent to match the Art Work of other painters, so that Insurance Companies didn't have to pay for a Total Repaint after a Collision...Stripes, Flames, Cob Webs, Acetylene, Flake, Pearl, Candys, etc.

Probably the most notable Paint Job that I have done was a Silver Micro Sequins Corvette, with 3 Shades of Candy Apple Blue and 17 coats of Clear.

The New Vette was supplied by G.M. and the paint was supplied by PPG (a division of G.M.).

It took 3 Months to complete because the Vette's Body was so Wavy that we had to Strip the Factory Paint and Straighten the entire Body prior to Priming.

The project was commissioned to mark the introduction of Deltron Paint to the General Public and the car appeared on PPG Posters, the Back Cover of the Early 80's General Motors High Performance Parts Catalogue, as well as Touring on the Show Car Circuit.

So, Teigan, other than your Carbon Fiber Bodied Stock Cars for NASCAR...what are your Credentials? LOL







>> Edited by deecee on Tuesday 16th May 20:00