Reason for spigot/pilot bearing not having two seals?
Discussion
I am replacing my spigot bearing on my Esprit and the replacement bearing I have has a seal on both sides whereas the original has the seal removed on the one side that sits in the shaft. I can remove one of the seals but wonder if there is any good reason why I shouldn't just leave the seal on. Seems better to me. Does anybody know if having both seals or just one really makes any difference?
Thanks JK1, yes, I meant no seal toward camshaft on engine side. Have you ever done one of these? The bearing does not slide over the tranny input shaft at all and it seems it would take some heavy force (like with a hammer to get it on)...the old bearing is that way too. Is that normal or should I remove some metal on the input shaft to be able to ease the shaft back into the bearing when attaching it back to the block?
Cliff
Cliff
You should not have to force the input shaft into the spigot bearing. It should slide in fairly easily. Something isn't right there. If you have to pound it on, you'll never stab the transmission. You'll be laying on your back in grease and oil swearing and wondering why the danmed thing wont go in.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
Thanks Dr. Hess. I thought that this didn't seem right...it took some pulling to get the input shaft out in the first place but you are right, it seems like it would be really tough to guide the transmission back on. Both the old bearing and new one have the same problem so it must have been an issue all along. I actually have a spare input shaft for realigning the clutch and both bearings slide easily on that one. Odd. Any thoughts from anyone?
jk1 said:
It shouldn't matter and I agree 2 seals is better than one. I would think the original should have the no seal side towards the engine block and the seal side towards the tranny input shaft.
Having just replaced mine, I can verify that this orientation is correct. Next time I plan to source a bearing with seals on both sides.
cliffq said:
Both the old bearing and new one have the same problem so it must have been an issue all along. I actually have a spare input shaft for realigning the clutch and both bearings slide easily on that one. Odd. Any thoughts from anyone?
What is the number of the ball bearing you are using?
What year Esprit/ which transaxle. If it's an Stevens-Turbo with Renault transaxle, then the bearing bore is 17mm and the shaft is supposed to be just a tiny bit smaller for a snug slip fit, but NOT a force fit.
If it's a Guigaro-Esprit with Citroen transaxle, then the input shaft's spigot journal is 15mm and the standard needle bearing has a slightly larger ID for a snug slip fit. However, if you are doing an upgrade to a ball bearing, then the closest ball bearing also has a 15mm more. That's a line to line fit with the 15mm journal OD and too tight... a light press fit. Part of the retrofit procedure is to turn the input shaft spigot journal down a couple of thousandths. Just enough to give a close slip fit into the ball bearing.
Renault UN1 – Esprit, SKF 6003-2RS.
OD ........ 35mm +0/ -0.013mm (1.37795 inch)
ID / Bore. 17mm +0/ -0.008mm (0.6693 inch)
Thickness 10mm +0/ -0.125mm (0.3937 inch)
Citroen - Esprit, SKF 6202-2RS
OD ........ 35mm +0/ -0.013mm (1.37795 inch)
ID / Bore. 15mm +0/ -0.008mm (0.59055 inch)
Thickness 11mm +0/ -0.125mm (0.43307 inch)
If the spigot journal is over-sized or corroded, correct the problem before proceeding. On Turbo models, the journal is a hardened sleeve that is installed over the smaller shaft journal, and secured with Loctite. Removing it will require heat and a puller of sorts.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Sunday 16th April 04:10
One caveat, be careful not to pack too much grease behind the bearing or it can actually create a hydraulic force when the input shaft is inserted and push the bearing back out of it's seat in the block. I had that happen on mine and when I pulled it the next time the bearing was only half way seated in the block. 
Cheers,
Jim
>> Edited by jk1 on Sunday 16th April 21:55
Cheers,
Jim
>> Edited by jk1 on Sunday 16th April 21:55
jk1 said:
(Snip)... and when I pulled it the next time the bearing was only half way seated in the block.
Jim,
Did you install the bearing with Loctite? With Loctite it should require serious heat and a puller to remove the bearing.
And you are correct, the pocket should only be partially filled with grease.
Tim
sanj said:
Is that what is recommended? If so, what type of grease is suitable?
Hi Sanj,
The Lotus manuals specify a one-seal ball bearing with the seal outer-most ("Seal side rearmost"
. And a one-seal bearing is what you get if you order an OEM replacement from Lotus. On the other hand, some independent parts suppliers deliver a two-seal version of the bearing. I've used both styles of spigot bearings without a problem; however, I think I prefer the one-seal type. I like being able to pack my own bearings just so I know what's in there.
Lotus recommended Esso Unirex N3 grease or equivalent. Basically, any high temp ball bearing grease will suffice, but I prefer to use a synthetic, high temperature disk brake wheel bearing grease. The Lotus manual only says to pack the bearing with grease before installation. Putting additional grease in the spigot-pocket came from a local Lotus mechanic. Don't fill it full or it will expand, ooze out and make a mess in the clutch. Half full or less.
Lotus also recommended installing the bearing into the crank with Loctite 648 Retaining Compound.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Esprit2 said:
(Snip)... and when I pulled it the next time the bearing was only half way seated in the block.
Jim,
Did you install the bearing with Loctite? With Loctite it should require serious heat and a puller to remove the bearing.
And you are correct, the pocket should only be partially filled with grease.
Tim
Tim,
Actually, the first time I never pulled it. I inspected the bearing with the tranny out and it was fine so I just packed grease in the hole not thinking that I could use too much..Rookie mistake
The next time I did replace the bearing as I had one on hand and did use loctite.
It's almost time for my annual engine pull anyway so I can check it again...
Cheers,
Jim
>> Edited by jk1 on Monday 17th April 13:05
Esprit2 said:
Lotus recommended Esso Unirex N3 grease or equivalent. Basically, any high temp ball bearing grease will suffice, but I prefer to use a synthetic, high temperature disk brake wheel bearing grease. The Lotus manual only says to pack the bearing with grease before installation. Putting additional grease in the spigot-pocket came from a local Lotus mechanic. Don't fill it full or it will expand, ooze out and make a mess in the clutch. Half full or less.
Lotus also recommended installing the bearing into the crank with Loctite 648 Retaining Compound.
This sucks.
I installed it dry, the '88-'92 manual says nothing about grease. The '93-on manual does, however. Oh well, at least the transaxle is still on the bench...
>> Edited by sanj on Monday 17th April 13:21
Well, I pulled the pressure plate, clutch and bearing out, packed a new bearing with synthetic lube, added a small glob in the pocket for good measure, and reinstalled with a bit of Loctite 609 retaining compound. Live and learn. Thanks, Tim!!!
>> Edited by sanj on Tuesday 18th April 13:57
>> Edited by sanj on Tuesday 18th April 13:57
Esprit2 said:
Is that what is recommended? If so, what type of grease is suitable?
Hi Sanj,
The Lotus manuals specify a one-seal ball bearing with the seal outer-most ("Seal side rearmost"
I've used both styles of spigot bearings without a problem; however, I think I prefer the one-seal type. I like being able to pack my own bearings just so I know what's in there.
Lotus recommended Esso Unirex N3 grease or equivalent. Basically, any high temp ball bearing grease will suffice, but I prefer to use a synthetic, high temperature disk brake wheel bearing grease. The Lotus manual only says to pack the bearing with grease before installation. Putting additional grease in the spigot-pocket came from a local Lotus mechanic. Don't fill it full or it will expand, ooze out and make a mess in the clutch. Half full or less.
Lotus also recommended installing the bearing into the crank with Loctite 648 Retaining Compound.
Regards,
Tim Engel
That's what I did when I replaced min 2 years ago. I used the Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing/general purpose grease. Made sure the bearing was packed, plus a little in the spigot. But I think I didn't use Loctite to retain the bearing... Oh well, my engine is out I can double check that now
No leakage after several 1000 miles. I also did my rear main seal without the aid of a centering tool, but I was very careful. I pressed the seal in the cover plate using a large round of titanium on a hydraulic press. No leaks.Gassing Station | Esprit | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff