Are the service notes available from Lotus' website
Discussion
I swear I read somewhere in an older post that you can pay a membership fee on the Lotus website, after which the service notes and other supplements are available for viewing / download in pdf format. Is this true? I have the 1993 Onwards service notes, but my car is a 12/92 build date and it looks like I need the 88-92 service notes. Thanks for any help!!
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:48
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:48
Here is where I got my service notes
www.lotus-books.com/html/body_esprit.html
I'm assuming you have a pre-brembo S4 to be needing these. If that's the case I think you should be able to get away with just sections 2+3. What part of the car do you plan on working on? Most of the car is the same from the SE to S4 except for power steering, brakes, and suspension.
www.lotus-books.com/html/body_esprit.html
I'm assuming you have a pre-brembo S4 to be needing these. If that's the case I think you should be able to get away with just sections 2+3. What part of the car do you plan on working on? Most of the car is the same from the SE to S4 except for power steering, brakes, and suspension.
I don't think it's an S4....it has the s4 style hatch, but other than that the only other difference are the Sport 300 style wheels, and a larger rear spoiler (bigger than standard se, smaller than twin turbo models...not a hi-wing). The interior looks identical to older 89-92 models. Engine as well. I am starting to think this model was the "left over bits" year before production of S4's began.
Does anyone have a copy of the ebay manual as seen here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lotus-
I'd be willing to make it worth your while for a burned copy. If you have it, email me at mustangpaul@earthlink.net The price he is asking seems a little steep...considering the 93- sells for less than $15 shipped.
Thanks!!
Paul
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:55
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:57
Does anyone have a copy of the ebay manual as seen here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lotus-
I'd be willing to make it worth your while for a burned copy. If you have it, email me at mustangpaul@earthlink.net The price he is asking seems a little steep...considering the 93- sells for less than $15 shipped.
Thanks!!
Paul
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:55
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Thursday 6th April 17:57
If you're asking me if it's ok to steal a TV from someone who stole it to begin with then I would say yes. That is like saying someone who copies a music cd has rights to the stolen material. Unless that person has copyrights to resell the original material from Lotus, then he is violating copyright laws to begin with. Spare me your righteousness ...
And to add to that...every automotive forum I've been a member of has typically had the factory manuals available for download free.....it helps keep the cars on the road, and allows people to sometimes keep cars by doing the work themselves, when they would have been bankrupted or forced to sell the car otherwise. Do you think this guy is giving a portion of his profits back to Lotus? I think not.
Paul93Lotus said:
Unless that person has copyrights to resell the original material from Lotus, then he is violating copyright laws to begin with. Spare me your righteousness ...
A. Neither of us knows if the e-Bay seller has a license. Therefore, for the time being I will not cast aspersion on the seller.
B. Your prior post was a clear request to violate the copyright in the manuals.
C. What happens on other boards is irrelevant to the law.
D. A subsequent violation of the copyright act does not harm the original thief it continues the harm of the copyright holder.
E. The books are available from Lotus. Call them, pay them and move on. Referring to posts on other boards as allowing continued ownership is disingenuous as a $100 savings is drop in the bucket when it comes to maintaining these cars.
Howdy Dr. Hess
Nothing like a spirited debate. Particularly when I don't feel like reading a contract.
If anyone is interested in the potential damages associated with copyright infringement (or has insomnia), check out sections 504-506 in this link: www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
The term "statutory damages" means the plaintiff need only prove an infringement. The plaintiff does not need to demonstrate any harm resulting from the infringement. Also, the amount awarded is per infringing copy. So, if the infringement is willful and if the court is willing to approach the upper limit set by statute, the dollars add up real fast.
Nothing like a spirited debate. Particularly when I don't feel like reading a contract.
If anyone is interested in the potential damages associated with copyright infringement (or has insomnia), check out sections 504-506 in this link: www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
The term "statutory damages" means the plaintiff need only prove an infringement. The plaintiff does not need to demonstrate any harm resulting from the infringement. Also, the amount awarded is per infringing copy. So, if the infringement is willful and if the court is willing to approach the upper limit set by statute, the dollars add up real fast.
okc-esprit said:
A. Neither of us knows if the e-Bay seller has a license. Therefore, for the time being I will not cast aspersion on the seller.
You've got to be kidding me. You're purposely ignoring the obvious for the benefit of your argument. Why don't you send your resume here : www.riaa.com/issues/piracy/default.asp
I'm sure they can use your expertise....maybe you should go bully people using Kazaa instead of people on a Lotus Esprit forum.
[quote=Paul93Lotus
....maybe you should go bully people...
[/quote]
Bullying - oh please your emotional reactions (earlier accusation of "righteousness"
indicate a guilty conscious. Simple facts seem to really bother you. How typical, those in the wrong always end up casting aspersions on others in an attempt to deflect attention from their own actions. Why don't you simply admit that you could care less about the law and will do what you want to do?
Respect for other people's property is the essence of a civilized society.
Ask the guys that sell reprogrammed chips how they feel about people copying, i.e. stealing, their IP. Incidentally, a large chunk of California’s economy relies on the protections afforded by IP law. Frankly, the quality of IP law enforcement is a major distinction between developed and third world countries. Countries that are catching up with the West, China & India, are even starting to enforce their IP Acts, not fast enough, but there is improvement.
As for copyright infringement cases, I frequently end up helping people who didn't listen to my advice and are being pursued by the copyright police. That may change as we now have one of the copyright police as a client.
In any event, my previous posts on IP law seemed to be appreciated by others on the board; however, since you have no interest in gaining even a slight understanding of the importance and value of IP this will be my last post responding to your comments. You may have the last word.
>> Edited by okc-esprit on Saturday 8th April 16:11
....maybe you should go bully people...
[/quote]
Bullying - oh please your emotional reactions (earlier accusation of "righteousness"
indicate a guilty conscious. Simple facts seem to really bother you. How typical, those in the wrong always end up casting aspersions on others in an attempt to deflect attention from their own actions. Why don't you simply admit that you could care less about the law and will do what you want to do? Respect for other people's property is the essence of a civilized society.
Ask the guys that sell reprogrammed chips how they feel about people copying, i.e. stealing, their IP. Incidentally, a large chunk of California’s economy relies on the protections afforded by IP law. Frankly, the quality of IP law enforcement is a major distinction between developed and third world countries. Countries that are catching up with the West, China & India, are even starting to enforce their IP Acts, not fast enough, but there is improvement.
As for copyright infringement cases, I frequently end up helping people who didn't listen to my advice and are being pursued by the copyright police. That may change as we now have one of the copyright police as a client.
In any event, my previous posts on IP law seemed to be appreciated by others on the board; however, since you have no interest in gaining even a slight understanding of the importance and value of IP this will be my last post responding to your comments. You may have the last word.
>> Edited by okc-esprit on Saturday 8th April 16:11
Maybe I am giving away my lack of youth by mentioning this but I cannot follow any document that's not a hard copy. The pdf's just don't float my boat. Zoom in and zoom out. Scroll left, right, up and down. Blah. Plus it's also nice to curl up in my kennel with my cheesy Lotus binder with all those glossy 3 hole punched pages on a blustery day.
I paid US $300 for the 1988-1992 plus EMG, EMH, SIR and the Electrical. It did not seem unreasonable to me at the time and makes a nice compliment to the car.
Just like the library, I am sure that if you require a couple of pages to cover a specific procedure someone would gladly scan them for you. Just not the whole manual.
Steve
edit: Ferrari does allow you to download owners manuals from their site if you register your serial number with them. Others may as well. Certainly reduces bootlegging of ripped copies.
>> Edited by arium on Saturday 8th April 16:31
I paid US $300 for the 1988-1992 plus EMG, EMH, SIR and the Electrical. It did not seem unreasonable to me at the time and makes a nice compliment to the car.
Just like the library, I am sure that if you require a couple of pages to cover a specific procedure someone would gladly scan them for you. Just not the whole manual.
Steve
edit: Ferrari does allow you to download owners manuals from their site if you register your serial number with them. Others may as well. Certainly reduces bootlegging of ripped copies.
>> Edited by arium on Saturday 8th April 16:31
okc-esprit said:
Bullying - oh please your emotional reactions (earlier accusation of "righteousness"
I will give you what you're looking for . Yes, I need the correct manual, and am trying to get it at the lowest price possible. I have the 93+ hardbound manual already, but realized that my car is technically a 92. The simple facts are that Lotus charges ridiculous prices for a complete workshop manual set...that's the fact that bothers me. (Again, you ignore the fact that the manual on Ebay is likely copied illegally.) Oh, I assure you I am conscious, but no, I don't have a guilty conscience. I made my intentions very obvious...the only apersions I'm casting is that you feel a need to lecture people.
okc-esprit said:
In any event, my previous posts on IP law seemed to be appreciated by others on the board; however, since you have no interest in gaining even a slight understanding of the importance and value of IP this will be my last post responding to your comments.
Congratulations...You are a legend in your own mind.
okc-esprit said:
You may have the last word.
You threw the first stone. That you continue your attempts to school me about the law and place yourself at the top of the morality pyramid is comical.
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Saturday 8th April 23:02
>> Edited by Paul93Lotus on Monday 10th April 21:01
artificial value is intrinsically unstable. .when products are priced fairly, it isn't worth anyone's trouble to copy or steal them. i think patents only aid the lawyers and court bureaucracy. if anything, patents and copyrights hinder innovation and create tedious life strangling paperwork.
Gassing Station | Esprit | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff