'Moniker' Issues...
Discussion
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cnh1990 said: In all my rantings I forgot to apologize to Jim that I offended him. I am also sorry for causing such a controvery on the forum which caused an end to the nicknames. Everyone, please do not think to badly of us.
Calvin
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Calvin,
There is absolutely no need for you to apologize for anything. So, while I do appreciate your friendship in offering one, I will not accept your apology. I just called you on your post regarding the monikers being used. And, as I stated at that time, I still very much value your friendship. I hope we will remain friends for a long time to come.
It may interest you to know that I received numerous emails regarding my post. These spanned a range of opinions from very supportive messages to openly hostile admonishments, and some which I can only believe are the product of 'Internet Time in the Asylum'. The majority of messages were however, overwhelmingly supportive of my position, or my right to state it.
No one can say why one person may be offended by something while others take no offense at all. Most disturbing to me was the fact that these 'monikers' were assigned without my foreknowledge or consent. It was very encouraging to me that most people understood that I was truly offended and sympathised with my point of view in that regard.
Admirably, Dave Edmonston (a.k.a. - Uncle Ted??), took my concern to heart and apologized to me, both on and off the list. I am thankful to Dave for his generous, caring concern. Dave also took action to remove the offense. Dave did this, I might add, in the face of some strong criticism by others who expressed that, should I not like it, I was free to leave the list.
This of course was, and is, very true. But, Dave and others, including yourself, realized that the individual is far more deserving, and necessary to the well-being of this list, than to be shrugged off so hastily.
So, Calvin, to you, Dave Edmonston, and all the others who at least attempted to understand and support my position, a heartfelt Thank You.
To those others who could neither accept or understand my point of view, I respect and support your right to be heard as well...Jim '85TE
Admirably, Dave Edmonston (a.k.a. - Uncle Ted??), took my concern to heart and apologized to me, both on and off the list. I am thankful to Dave for his generous, caring concern.
In English that would mean that Dave didn't want you to sue him so he took evasive action and was forced to apologise. Shame,in my opinion, he should have removed you from the list and banned you from Pistonheads for life.
Dave also took action to remove the offense.
Offence??? What offence would that be? You were reffered to as a Gasbag. In this country (and may I remind you that this is England, not Politicaly Correct America) the term "gasbag" refers to someone who chats a lot. It was explained to you more than once but still you had to carry on. In the terms of this website it meant you were a frequent Gasser. It is called "Gassing station" or hadn't you noticed that??
To those others who could neither accept or understand my point of view, I respect and support your right to be heard as well...Jim '85TE
For your information, we haven't been allowed to express our opinions since you ruined our fun last week and many of us have had our posts deleted that expressed our anger at your petty and churlish reaction to being termed a "gasbag".
I have spoken to many people who frequent this site in the last few days and every single one them was very disturbed at your actions. Threatening legal action on here because you don't like something could spell the end of our freedom of speech, and ruin the community spirit on here that has taken years to forge. To compare calling someone a "gasbag" with a racist comment like you did in an earlier post is an absolute disgrace.
I'd like to think you would read this and take my points on board, but somehow I doubt you will. Thanks to your unbelievable reaction last week it will probably be deleted to protect your huge ego.
flasher said:
Admirably, Dave Edmonston (a.k.a. - Uncle Ted??), took my concern to heart and apologized to me, both on and off the list. I am thankful to Dave for his generous, caring concern.
In English that would mean that Dave didn't want you to sue him so he took evasive action and was forced to apologise. Shame,in my opinion, he should have removed you from the list and banned you from Pistonheads for life.
Dave also took action to remove the offense.
Offence??? What offence would that be? You were reffered to as a Gasbag. In this country (and may I remind you that this is England, not Politicaly Correct America) the term "gasbag" refers to someone who chats a lot. It was explained to you more than once but still you had to carry on. In the terms of this website it meant you were a frequent Gasser. It is called "Gassing station" or hadn't you noticed that??
To those others who could neither accept or understand my point of view, I respect and support your right to be heard as well...Jim '85TE
For your information, we haven't been allowed to express our opinions since you ruined our fun last week and many of us have had our posts deleted that expressed our anger at your petty and churlish reaction to being termed a "gasbag".
I have spoken to many people who frequent this site in the last few days and every single one them was very disturbed at your actions. Threatening legal action on here because you don't like something could spell the end of our freedom of speech, and ruin the community spirit on here that has taken years to forge. To compare calling someone a "gasbag" with a racist comment like you did in an earlier post is an absolute disgrace.
I'd like to think you would read this and take my points on board, but somehow I doubt you will. Thanks to your unbelievable reaction last week it will probably be deleted to protect your huge ego.
You obviously have some very strong feelings...
he is not alone on this.......the whole point of the site is the 'spirit' of community which means as adults we can exchange banter, have a bit of fun at each others expense if you like. In the UK we have a different sense of humour to most other countries and being a UK website it would be polite to understand this and adapt or leave. To threaten our friend with legal action is totally uncalled for, it is almost like going to a foriegn country and threatening to bomb them because you don't understand them..............uncomfortable analogy isn't it?
Yes. I think you went completely over the top Jim. I'm not the only one. I don't want you to leave, just to accept that the "gasbag" thing was a tongue in cheek term that offends no-one in this country. If someone had really offended you and made a nasty personal insult then I could understand your anger.
Maybe we should just leave it there.
Maybe we should just leave it there.
Having been raised overseas, and having lived and schooled in the UK, I am struck by the change in contemporary Britons over those I knew in my youth. Perhaps it is the loss of Empire which has caused this, I don't know.
As far as someone's analogy about bombing a foreign country, I don't see it as being even remotely germain to the topic at hand. If it is an attempt to slight Americans or their government's foreign policy, it comes off as rather feeble, especially in light of Britain's own stand on the matter.
Far be it from me to shy away from criticsm. If you feel the list does not offer adequate opportunity to freely express your views, then by all means email them to me directly. I will be happy to consider them. Should they turn out to be too vulgar or lack any intelligent content, there is always the delete key...Jim '85TE
As far as someone's analogy about bombing a foreign country, I don't see it as being even remotely germain to the topic at hand. If it is an attempt to slight Americans or their government's foreign policy, it comes off as rather feeble, especially in light of Britain's own stand on the matter.
Far be it from me to shy away from criticsm. If you feel the list does not offer adequate opportunity to freely express your views, then by all means email them to me directly. I will be happy to consider them. Should they turn out to be too vulgar or lack any intelligent content, there is always the delete key...Jim '85TE
lotusguy said: Having been raised overseas, and having lived and schooled in the UK, I am struck by the change in contemporary Britons over those I knew in my youth. Perhaps it is the loss of Empire which has caused this, I don't know.
As far as someone's analogy about bombing a foreign country, I don't see it as being even remotely germain to the topic at hand. If it is an attempt to slight Americans or their government's foreign policy, it comes off as rather feeble, especially in light of Britain's own stand on the matter.
Far be it from me to shy away from criticsm. If you feel the list does not offer adequate opportunity to freely express your views, then by all means email them to me directly. I will be happy to consider them. Should they turn out to be too vulgar or lack any intelligent content, there is always the delete key...Jim '85TE
I did, you didn't reply, or offer a reasonable excuse for impinging on others freedom of expression.
Flasher & Apache,
In my opinion, the guy obviously has some serious issues about self importance and has totally undermined his own credibility and respect with his outlandish, unreasonable and downright objectionable postings. He has in many respects alienated himself from the main core of PH memebers judging by the many responses to his outrageous statements and regardless of whether he has a valid point or not about the monikers which appeared below our name tags, he went about voicing his concerns in totally the wrong way and as such has brought ill feeling to a valuable and highly respected website and for that I personally cannot forgive him.
Jas.
In my opinion, the guy obviously has some serious issues about self importance and has totally undermined his own credibility and respect with his outlandish, unreasonable and downright objectionable postings. He has in many respects alienated himself from the main core of PH memebers judging by the many responses to his outrageous statements and regardless of whether he has a valid point or not about the monikers which appeared below our name tags, he went about voicing his concerns in totally the wrong way and as such has brought ill feeling to a valuable and highly respected website and for that I personally cannot forgive him.
Jas.
apache said:
lotusguy said: Having been raised overseas, and having lived and schooled in the UK, I am struck by the change in contemporary Britons over those I knew in my youth. Perhaps it is the loss of Empire which has caused this, I don't know.
As far as someone's analogy about bombing a foreign country, I don't see it as being even remotely germain to the topic at hand. If it is an attempt to slight Americans or their government's foreign policy, it comes off as rather feeble, especially in light of Britain's own stand on the matter.
Far be it from me to shy away from criticsm. If you feel the list does not offer adequate opportunity to freely express your views, then by all means email them to me directly. I will be happy to consider them. Should they turn out to be too vulgar or lack any intelligent content, there is always the delete key...Jim '85TE
I did, you didn't reply, or offer a reasonable excuse for impinging on others freedom of expression.
Hi,
Thanks for your input, I'm sure I did receive your email, but I see none from 'apache' amongst them. Could you have signed under a different name?
Further, while I welcome your emails, I make no assurance that I will reply to them. Some have asked for an explanation, I believe that my initial post is pretty self explanitory.
I am not seeking anyone's affirmation, nor condemnation for that matter. I said what I said and my reasons are fairly well expressed in my post's content I believe.
My original post was not intended to provoke the degreee of controversy which it seems to have. I am not eager to see the matter continue ad infinitum, and so this will be my final public post on the matter. If you care to email me offlist, that will be fine. If my actions or explanations are somehow insufficient for you, then you are, of course, free to ignore any future posts or contributions I may make. Thanks...Jim '85TE
The Gassbag moniker is a harmless expression in the UK I have been called that a few times as in "How are you doing you old gassbag". A non offensive term to me. But Jim was offended, maybe Jim's response did not sit right with a few or percieved as heavy handed. I'm not sure if Jim even knew this was a UK site at the time he made it. As far the other sections of PH it is just about all populated from the other side of the Atlantic from the USA. Only the Esprit section has a lot of Americans and a smattering of others. This is an international site with many from different countries. We must be sensetive to customs and cultural differences of other countries. The item about legal action is not even an issue. One has a hard time initiating such a process across borders for much more important issues than this. We are all hobby car people, we are different from most people or who I call outsiders. Car people understand each other, we go beyond cultural, political, and nationality differences. Other than this one subject there has not been such flaming on the Esprit site as on the other site. I like this site for that reason. Do not let this get out of hand, get so petty, and personal. We should go back to car chat after all that is what brought everyone here.
Calvin 90 SE
Calvin 90 SE
thanks for your input Calvin, I know Jim is a friend of yours and your response was thoughtful. As has been said before, if offence was taken by the term it was more than adequately explained and apologised for. This site is a 'broad church' and allowances must be made for others sensitivities, however to take it to the extreme of a threat of legal action is almost bizarre. Ted offers a service here and it would be totally counterproductive to actively offend anyone. If your friend was upset he had perfect freedom to express this to the site administrator in an open manner not demand the site adapt to his personal taste under threat of legal action. I'm afraid all this does is reinforce the impression of the litigious nature of our American cousins
For me that was the main issue - I am quite happy for Jim to have an opinions that is different to mine; in fact this makes for interesting debate on the site. From what I can see, Jim has spent a lot of time answering technical posts on Lotuses, in the same way that Steve Heath has done for TVRs - this is obviously great for the site & we need more posters like this.
cnh1990 said:The item about legal action is not even an issue.
But rather than raising a flag by sending out a post, or private email to Ted, asking what was going on, big guns were used right from the beginning, which to me seemed downright inappropriate.
I won't say any more than that as I think this thread may be closed swiftish anyway, but feel very strongly that uncontrolled litigation is one of the evils that is crippling American society with UK following close behind.
Craig.
Well said. And my point entirley. Jim obviously should have emailed Ted offline and said that he didn't want to be called a gasbag. Taking it this far is absolutley unbelievable. What enraged me was reading the pompous, self righteuos post at the top of this thread. If it was black guy who had been labelled "n***er" or something of that ilk then I could understand it, but "gasbag"??? It's so pathetic that an "adult" could be upset by a term like "gasbag" that words completley fail me. If this sort of thing is going to happen, it threatens our future as gassers. I wanted to point out to Jim just how strong the feeling is this side of the pond because he obviously (by the nature of his comments at the top of the thread) didn't realise.
>> Edited by flasher on Sunday 29th December 09:38
Well said. And my point entirley. Jim obviously should have emailed Ted offline and said that he didn't want to be called a gasbag. Taking it this far is absolutley unbelievable. What enraged me was reading the pompous, self righteuos post at the top of this thread. If it was black guy who had been labelled "n***er" or something of that ilk then I could understand it, but "gasbag"??? It's so pathetic that an "adult" could be upset by a term like "gasbag" that words completley fail me. If this sort of thing is going to happen, it threatens our future as gassers. I wanted to point out to Jim just how strong the feeling is this side of the pond because he obviously (by the nature of his comments at the top of the thread) didn't realise.
>> Edited by flasher on Sunday 29th December 09:38
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