Early Esprit trouble spots?
Discussion
Hi,
I'm toying with the idea of getting an early (S2 most likely) Esprit - what are some of the more common things to look out for? Which systems give trouble, which are reliable?
Apologies if this has been asked a million times. Links would be good.
Cheers
J
J,
The S2 model offers significant improvements over the S1 model, bit as the model line was still in it's infancy, there are several issues to be aware of. First, the S2 did not have a galvanised frame or chassis, so care should be taken to insure it is in good order. Next, the front suspension utilizes an oil filled trunnion in place of a sealed lower ball joint similar to early Triumphs, Healys etc. These must be topped off regularly to prevent excess wear to the joint. Be sure to inspect the front suspension thoroughly to insure everything is tight, yet moves freely under load. Then there are the valve covers, these are set so the lower edge of the cover lives below the oil level in the head, This means that they leak. You can seal them tirelessly, but understand that it is just a matter of time before they leak again. This problem was not corrected until the Turbo model cam towers placed the valve cover above the oil level in the head. Many S1, S2 owners convert to the Turbo cam towers as a permanent fix to this. Next, the otter switch, which triggers the radiator cooling fans is located high up on the aluminum tube coming off the water pump. The problem with this is that the switch often is sitting in an air pocket if the cooling system isn't absolutely filled to the brim and properly bled, this will prevent the switch from actuating the cooling fans resulting in overheating. The solution is to upgrade to the coolant pipe used on the Turbo model which moves the 'Otter' switch down below the coolant level in the engine which insures that this switch is always immersed in coolant.
Also, the half shafts on the S1 and S2 use 'U' joints, nake sure these are tight or plan to replace them. The power windows are often a problem, this is because the power for the motors travels through the switch which really doesn't handle all thet amperage too well. Lotus never really corrected this properly, but a procedure exists which converts the windows to run on a separate circuit governed by a relay which in turn is actuated by the switch. Also, on the S1 and early S2's, the headlamp pods are drivem by a single lift motor, ideally you want a later S2 where a motor is dedicated to each headlamp. Also, there were a couple carburration options available, Strombergs, Webbers or Dellortos. Due to their tunability, the latter two are preferred. There are several other differences, including the brakes and clutch mechanism, but while not as good or reliable as latter models, do not in themselves pose a problem. Hope this helps...Jim '85TE
Why not get a S3?
Have you got the Jeremy Walton book "Lotus Esprit, The Complete Story"? This is a good reference for cars up to about 1990.
Apart from the JPS cars, which are an attractive limited edition, the S2 doesn't have anything to offer that a S3 can't do better.
Or am I just a biased S3 owner?
Lotus did a HC version of the NA S3, which is surely the best G shape non turbo. I am led to believe that the S3 doesn't have the same suspension problems, front or rear, that the S1 and S2 have.
Have you got the Jeremy Walton book "Lotus Esprit, The Complete Story"? This is a good reference for cars up to about 1990.
Apart from the JPS cars, which are an attractive limited edition, the S2 doesn't have anything to offer that a S3 can't do better.
Or am I just a biased S3 owner?
Lotus did a HC version of the NA S3, which is surely the best G shape non turbo. I am led to believe that the S3 doesn't have the same suspension problems, front or rear, that the S1 and S2 have.
Why not get an SE with more zip?
But then I am biased SE owner.
Oh there must be a reason he wants an S1/S2.
He sounds like someone who is researching before he buys one. He sounds handy which is good because with the reliability issues he will need those skills the later models has so much more performance and a lot more reliable. He must like the early G car look and there is nothing wrong with that. All Esprit's are neat.
Calvin 90 SE
Calvin
But then I am biased SE owner.
Oh there must be a reason he wants an S1/S2.
He sounds like someone who is researching before he buys one. He sounds handy which is good because with the reliability issues he will need those skills the later models has so much more performance and a lot more reliable. He must like the early G car look and there is nothing wrong with that. All Esprit's are neat.
Calvin 90 SE
Calvin
I do like the G car look, and yes I'm researching - I'll most likely have a fair bit of time to research before jumping in yet! That book sounds good, I might have to pick one up.
I actually had the notion that I could pick up an early Esprit with a blown engine for cheep, and swap in a tuned Mazda rotary. Budget supercar (oxymoronic, yes I know!). Hence why I was wondering about the engines, if they tend to blow up that would make that option look that much better. However if they're reliable I might just stick with the Lotus motor.
So the S3 is the last G car? What years would that be, '82-'88 right? When did the galvanized chassis come out?
Thx
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 00:52
I actually had the notion that I could pick up an early Esprit with a blown engine for cheep, and swap in a tuned Mazda rotary. Budget supercar (oxymoronic, yes I know!). Hence why I was wondering about the engines, if they tend to blow up that would make that option look that much better. However if they're reliable I might just stick with the Lotus motor.
So the S3 is the last G car? What years would that be, '82-'88 right? When did the galvanized chassis come out?
Thx
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 00:52
Johnny Freon said: I do like the G car look, and yes I'm researching -
I actually had the notion that I could pick up an early Esprit with a blown engine for cheep, and swap in a tuned Mazda rotary. Budget supercar (oxymoronic, yes I know!). Hence why I was wondering about the engines, if they tend to blow up that would make that option look that much better. However if they're reliable I might just stick with the Lotus motor.
So the S3 is the last G car? What years would that be, '82-'88 right? When did the galvanized chassis come out?
Thx
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 00:52
J,
I do hope you don't get a 'G' car amd 'Pimp' it out by swapping engines out in favor a 'Rice Tumbler'...
If that is your ilk, please do it to a later model car. The 'G' cars were produced in such limited numbers, compared to the 'Sausage Grinding' production
of thousands of Stevens bodied cars, I hate to see one go to this purpose. Better to leave it to someone who will renovate and cherish it for what it is, rather than what you can bastardize it into. I realize that my saying so won't necessarily prevent it from happening, but I do hope it's given you something to think about...Jim '85TE (Mid-year model- 1 of 61 produced)
Gak, sorry Jim! I shoulda known I'd offend someone . . . however you have to admit that Lotus have a long history of using other makers' engines. And I have a notion that using a tuned rotary, for about the same weight but nearly twice the power, is probably something that Chapman wouldn't have objected to at all. However I completely see your point, that Lotus-engined cars should stay that way. I used to be a purist myself.
But engines are engines whether they're made in Hethel or Hiroshima.
If I were ever to do this (big if) I'd start with a basket-case. If I found a nice original car, I'd keep it that way.
Thanks again for your help!
Cheers
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 14:57
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 14:59
But engines are engines whether they're made in Hethel or Hiroshima.
If I were ever to do this (big if) I'd start with a basket-case. If I found a nice original car, I'd keep it that way.
Thanks again for your help!
Cheers
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 14:57
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 14:59
Jim,
Is a bit passionate about the G cars. There are more than several people have modifed the early G cars and some later ones too using V8's to V6 SHO motors and Yamaha transmissions. I would suppose they change the handling aspects with the difference in the engine weight. The S cars even though there are quite a few of them out there are usually powerfull enough as they are or pumped up with a simple chip change. Most people don't go through the trouble to drop in a different engine. Some people feel G cars are a bit anemic and want to go beyond the usual tweeking. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, just use the money you were planning on using for the upgrades and just buy one that is already capable or closer to it, then just tweek it to your needs. Buy the newest Esprit as you possibly can unless you are really in love with the older look as the newer models are built a little better with updates and improvements to a lot of areas.
Good luck,
Calvin 90 SE
Is a bit passionate about the G cars. There are more than several people have modifed the early G cars and some later ones too using V8's to V6 SHO motors and Yamaha transmissions. I would suppose they change the handling aspects with the difference in the engine weight. The S cars even though there are quite a few of them out there are usually powerfull enough as they are or pumped up with a simple chip change. Most people don't go through the trouble to drop in a different engine. Some people feel G cars are a bit anemic and want to go beyond the usual tweeking. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, just use the money you were planning on using for the upgrades and just buy one that is already capable or closer to it, then just tweek it to your needs. Buy the newest Esprit as you possibly can unless you are really in love with the older look as the newer models are built a little better with updates and improvements to a lot of areas.
Good luck,
Calvin 90 SE
I'm the same way about RX-7s - a little (okay, a lot) more mundane they may be, but we all have our passions and that's great.
I am a great admirer of Chapman and firmly believe in the dictum of 'for speed add lightness'. That's why I'd pick the rotary for a swap instead of a V6 or (ye gads) a V8. Power to weight ratio and all that.
As far as the cost, six-port 13Bs are a dime a dozen and I can do all the work myself - rather enjoy it in fact.
However this is all contingent on finding a car really in need of serious help, and what are the chances of that?
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 15:47
I am a great admirer of Chapman and firmly believe in the dictum of 'for speed add lightness'. That's why I'd pick the rotary for a swap instead of a V6 or (ye gads) a V8. Power to weight ratio and all that.
As far as the cost, six-port 13Bs are a dime a dozen and I can do all the work myself - rather enjoy it in fact.
However this is all contingent on finding a car really in need of serious help, and what are the chances of that?
J
>> Edited by Johnny Freon on Friday 20th December 15:47
Johnny Freon said:
However this is all contingent on finding a car really in need of serious help, and what are the chances of that?
Pretty good. I saw several a while ago that need help. There is a lot of expense to bring a S1/S2 back to stock from neglect and very little return or market value. You can still get a running one for less than 10K. Anymore than your into Turbo money. There are areas that need to be looked at. The older cars are lighter but there are that way because the body and frame were not as robust as in the later cars. I recall there were a few that did the rotary conversion a ROTUS as many call it. I think there are also Sevens with a rotary that they call a ROTUS.
Calvin
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