HELP NEEDED HERE ...er what is it ...simple or LOTUS
Discussion
Gday all
umm ...where do i start ...
Yesterday my bro...came over from West Australia... to see older bro.
I thought i would take him out in Gcar for a spin,as he hadnt seen it b4.
Beforehand i started the car up (as it hadnt been started for a couple of weeks(normally i start it about every 2 weeks) although it hadnt been driven for a month or so .
Having started it up ...and let it warm up and listen for engine managment sort itself out.
Having warmed up .....
Jumped... er eased myself in cockpit
Foot on clutch.......good pressure
Engaged 1st gear ...... 2nd ..3rd ...reverse
Nothing but neutral !!!!!!!!!!!
@##%%$##@@# (opps sorry about the language)
Turned off engine
Clutch in
Engaged 1st..2nd ..3rd...4th ..reverse
No problems
Ok ...started engine again
Same problem as b4
What could it be???
Gcar , doesnt get used all that much (as im away a fair bit)
The gearbox gate needs to be played with sometime ..and new bushes fited to get rid of the sloppiness in gearstick
Any ideas from you gurus
Many Thanks
Alex 87S3HC na
umm ...where do i start ...
Yesterday my bro...came over from West Australia... to see older bro.
I thought i would take him out in Gcar for a spin,as he hadnt seen it b4.
Beforehand i started the car up (as it hadnt been started for a couple of weeks(normally i start it about every 2 weeks) although it hadnt been driven for a month or so .
Having started it up ...and let it warm up and listen for engine managment sort itself out.
Having warmed up .....
Jumped... er eased myself in cockpit
Foot on clutch.......good pressure
Engaged 1st gear ...... 2nd ..3rd ...reverse
Nothing but neutral !!!!!!!!!!!
@##%%$##@@# (opps sorry about the language)
Turned off engine
Clutch in
Engaged 1st..2nd ..3rd...4th ..reverse
No problems
Ok ...started engine again
Same problem as b4
What could it be???
Gcar , doesnt get used all that much (as im away a fair bit)
The gearbox gate needs to be played with sometime ..and new bushes fited to get rid of the sloppiness in gearstick
Any ideas from you gurus
Many Thanks
Alex 87S3HC na
Does clutch feel normal on pressure ( normal "over centre" feel half way up )
Does gearstich feel notchy on movement (ie, does it feel like the stick is working something or is it loose.
The only time I ever experienced a boxful of neutrals was in an X 1/9 when the gearbox locked up and totally destroyed the clutch, reducing it to a metal carrier and a pile of dust !
There can only be so many causes for this problem:
1. The gearstick isn't connected to the selector forks or isn't moving the forks, or
2. The clutch is somehow stuck in the open position.
Firstly, I would get under the back of the car (CHOCKED ON TWO WHEELS) whilst a colleague works the gearstick. You should saee the selector rod moving left and right and rotating when the stick is moved.
Second, I would take the slave cylinder off the bell housing. (much easier witht the boot floor out) and see if the fork is moveable at all by hand.
Third, I would take the slave mounting bracket off which exposes an inspection port through which you can see part of the clutch etc.
It sounds as if something is seized. I wouldn't start the motor whilst doing any of this, just in case the clutch suddenly engages whilst in gear and smacks your beloved straight through the garage wall !! Might damage the car as well !!!
Does gearstich feel notchy on movement (ie, does it feel like the stick is working something or is it loose.
The only time I ever experienced a boxful of neutrals was in an X 1/9 when the gearbox locked up and totally destroyed the clutch, reducing it to a metal carrier and a pile of dust !
There can only be so many causes for this problem:
1. The gearstick isn't connected to the selector forks or isn't moving the forks, or
2. The clutch is somehow stuck in the open position.
Firstly, I would get under the back of the car (CHOCKED ON TWO WHEELS) whilst a colleague works the gearstick. You should saee the selector rod moving left and right and rotating when the stick is moved.
Second, I would take the slave cylinder off the bell housing. (much easier witht the boot floor out) and see if the fork is moveable at all by hand.
Third, I would take the slave mounting bracket off which exposes an inspection port through which you can see part of the clutch etc.
It sounds as if something is seized. I wouldn't start the motor whilst doing any of this, just in case the clutch suddenly engages whilst in gear and smacks your beloved straight through the garage wall !! Might damage the car as well !!!
Alex;
It is likely that you have a shift linkage problem from what you have described. I.E. the transaaxle was working when last driven, and it requires some work. I would look at 2 main possibilities:
1) Your crown wheel/pinion have failed (CWP)
2) Your shift linkage is worn out or in need of adjustment
You can test the CWP simply by getting the car into gear (read on for a procedure to do this) and trying to push the car (with the engine off, of course) against the engine.
As for the shift linkage, you didn't identify which model G-car you have. Is it an early car (i.e. an S1 or S2) or is it a late car (S3 or Turbo)? It makes a difference as the shift linkage (at least the fore-aft portion) on the early cars is on the left hand side of the transaxle and the late cars have it on the right. You can get under the back of the car and manually put the car into gear by pushing the shift arm forward or backward. It will go into either 3rd or 4th gear if the shift lver is not loaded side to side in the cockpit. Give this a try.
If you find that you can select a gear then you know that your linkage is in need of service.
Here is a quick primer on how the shifter works:
1st and 2nd gear are on the same shifting fork inside the transaxle. If you can select 1st or 2nd gear you know that the shift gate cable (located on the passenger side of the transaxle) is providing adequate side-to-side gear gate travel. FYI:
1st - 2nd are on one shift fork. 3rd - 4th are on another shift fork. 5th is
on its own fork in the extreme rear of the gearbox. Reverse is on its own fork at the extreme passenger (right) side in the main gearbox cavity.
You can easily determine if an adjustment to the shifter linkage is required by getting under the car and shifting through the gears using the shift arm on the left side of the transaxle (early car or right side on a late car) and the L-shaped lever (called the cross gate lever) on the right side (on both early and late cars). The shaft that the shift arm pivots on is called the cross shaft. The shift arm rotates the cross shaft and the cross gate lever moves the cross shaft from side to side.
The shift arm is about 6" long and is located just on the side of the transaxle just a few inches in front of the back end of the transaxle. The arm moves back and forth (front-to-back) to select gears. The cross gate lever moves the cross shaft from side-to-side to select gear gates (1-2, 3-4, 5 and reverse). Start out with the car in neutral. From neutral if you push the arm toward the front of the car will select 3rd gear. If you push the arm toward the back of the car will select 4th gear.
Next try moving the arm from side to side. There is a pretty stiff spring
inside the gearbox that positions the shift arm in the 3rd-4th gear gate when no side-to-side force is applied to the shift arm. You may find that you can't effectively push the arm from side to side. Not to worry, move over to the right side of the transaxle. On the opposite end of the shaft that the shift arm rotates on is the cross gate lever (the L-shaped) arm near the top of the transaxle. It will be easier to select gear gates (moving the shift arm side-to-side) by moving the cross gate lever.
To select 1st gear move the cross shaft all the way to the left side of the car (either by pulling on the shift arm or by rotating the cross gate arm) and push the shift arm forward. To select 2nd gear, again move the cross shaft all the way to the left side of the car and push the shift arm to the back of the car. Since you know that 2nd gear already works start by selecting 2nd gear and then moving to 1st.
If all of this is too complicated by way of description you can easily visualize how it is supposed to work by having a helper shift through the gears from inside the car while you are underneath it. Please note that if you're helper is your significant other try to remain calm and remember that this procedure, much like bleeding brakes, has been know to test the true measure of your relationship!
After you see how everything moves and is supposed to work have your helper select 2nd gear. Note the side-to-side position of the cross shaft. Then have your helper try to select 1st gear. If it won't go in try pushing on the shift arm. If it goes into gear you may need a fore-aft shift rod adjustment or some new bushings in the shift rods. If this doesn't work repeat the procedure, 2nd into 1st, and try moving the cross gate lever to give a little additional movement of the cross shaft towards the left side of the transaxle. If the problem is side-to-side gear gate linkage adjustment you should be able to shift into 1st gear in this manner. If you still can't select 1st gear then I would advise you to get it checked out by someone more familiar with the transaxle.
If you are able to engage 1st gear then proceed with the following to attempt to diagnose the problem: If the cross gate lever is not providing enough travel the first thing to do is make sure that the cable is properly secured to the bellhousing. To do this trace the cable forward to where it passes through a hole on the bellhousing near the starter motor. The cable sheath is secured there by a pair of nuts, about 21 or 22 mm if I remember correctly (a 7/8" wrench will work but be careful not to round off the points on the nuts). If these jamb juts are not tight there will be slop in the cable that will prevent you from having full side-to-side travel of the shifter. If these nuts are tight then a cross gate lever adjustment is likely necessary.
Cross gate lever adjustment is made by adjusting the turnbuckle (the cross gate cable rod in Lotus-speak) that joins the shift cable to the cross gate lever on the transaxle. Simply loosen the turnbuckle jamb nut (the nut, a 10mm I think, is at the forward end of the turnbuckle), remove the clevis pin that connects the turnbuckle to the cross gate lever and rotate the turnbuckle to give you more side-to-side travel towards the 1st gear gate. It won't require much adjustment, probably only a 1/2 or 1 turn as you can already select 2nd gear. Then reconnect the cable to the cross gate lever and try to shift into 2nd then 1st. Don't forget to remember how much you moved the turnbuckle so that you can get back to the original adjustment if you go the wrong way. Also remember that increasing the side-to-side thorw on the 1st gear side decreases the throw on the 5th gear / reverse side.
If more fore aft travel is needed to engage 1st gear then the first thing to do is inspect the bushings in the shift linkage rods. At each joint of the shift linkage rods there is a 3-piece bushing/bearing assembly and a shoulder bolt. The bushings are really nothing more than rubber grommets and the bearings are little teflon inserts that go between the bushing (grommet) and the shoulder bolt. Sevearl of these joints are right next to the exhaust and deteriorate rapidly due to heat and exposure to oil and gasoline. Just grab onto the linkage rods and move them while inspecting each joint for excessive free-play. If the joints are deteriorated they will need to be replaced. Each bearing/bushing combo is about $16.50. There a total of 7 of them going from the shift lever in the cockpit all the way back to the shift arm on the side of the transaxle. I know because I just replaced all of mine. They are readily available stateside from Tingle, JAE, RD, Dave Bean, etc. As a low buck quick-fix you can use -6 rubber hose (3/8"
in lieu of the bushing/bearing combo and it will work for a while. I know as I have used this trick when I have been in immediate need of reapair and poor at the same time.
If the rod end bushing/bearings are intact then you will need to adjust the
length of the shift rod(s) to get increased fore-aft shift arm travel. The
easiest rod end to get to is the link that runs from the shift arm on the
transaxle to the pivot link on the bellhousing. Disconnect the rods at this
location and adjust the rod end to give additional travel in the appropriate
direction. Again remember how many turns you rotate the rod end so that you can return to the original position if required. Again remember that increasing the throw towards 1st gear decreases the throw towards 2nd.
Just have some patience and use common sense and you'll be able to figure this out. Its not rocket science.
BTW: I have a pair of .jpg pictures that I can send you if it will help you to visualize the shift arm and cross gate lever on the transaxle. Contact me
off-list and I will forward them to you directly.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ron Schramm
'84 Trubo (x2)
'77 S1
It is likely that you have a shift linkage problem from what you have described. I.E. the transaaxle was working when last driven, and it requires some work. I would look at 2 main possibilities:
1) Your crown wheel/pinion have failed (CWP)
2) Your shift linkage is worn out or in need of adjustment
You can test the CWP simply by getting the car into gear (read on for a procedure to do this) and trying to push the car (with the engine off, of course) against the engine.
As for the shift linkage, you didn't identify which model G-car you have. Is it an early car (i.e. an S1 or S2) or is it a late car (S3 or Turbo)? It makes a difference as the shift linkage (at least the fore-aft portion) on the early cars is on the left hand side of the transaxle and the late cars have it on the right. You can get under the back of the car and manually put the car into gear by pushing the shift arm forward or backward. It will go into either 3rd or 4th gear if the shift lver is not loaded side to side in the cockpit. Give this a try.
If you find that you can select a gear then you know that your linkage is in need of service.
Here is a quick primer on how the shifter works:
1st and 2nd gear are on the same shifting fork inside the transaxle. If you can select 1st or 2nd gear you know that the shift gate cable (located on the passenger side of the transaxle) is providing adequate side-to-side gear gate travel. FYI:
1st - 2nd are on one shift fork. 3rd - 4th are on another shift fork. 5th is
on its own fork in the extreme rear of the gearbox. Reverse is on its own fork at the extreme passenger (right) side in the main gearbox cavity.
You can easily determine if an adjustment to the shifter linkage is required by getting under the car and shifting through the gears using the shift arm on the left side of the transaxle (early car or right side on a late car) and the L-shaped lever (called the cross gate lever) on the right side (on both early and late cars). The shaft that the shift arm pivots on is called the cross shaft. The shift arm rotates the cross shaft and the cross gate lever moves the cross shaft from side to side.
The shift arm is about 6" long and is located just on the side of the transaxle just a few inches in front of the back end of the transaxle. The arm moves back and forth (front-to-back) to select gears. The cross gate lever moves the cross shaft from side-to-side to select gear gates (1-2, 3-4, 5 and reverse). Start out with the car in neutral. From neutral if you push the arm toward the front of the car will select 3rd gear. If you push the arm toward the back of the car will select 4th gear.
Next try moving the arm from side to side. There is a pretty stiff spring
inside the gearbox that positions the shift arm in the 3rd-4th gear gate when no side-to-side force is applied to the shift arm. You may find that you can't effectively push the arm from side to side. Not to worry, move over to the right side of the transaxle. On the opposite end of the shaft that the shift arm rotates on is the cross gate lever (the L-shaped) arm near the top of the transaxle. It will be easier to select gear gates (moving the shift arm side-to-side) by moving the cross gate lever.
To select 1st gear move the cross shaft all the way to the left side of the car (either by pulling on the shift arm or by rotating the cross gate arm) and push the shift arm forward. To select 2nd gear, again move the cross shaft all the way to the left side of the car and push the shift arm to the back of the car. Since you know that 2nd gear already works start by selecting 2nd gear and then moving to 1st.
If all of this is too complicated by way of description you can easily visualize how it is supposed to work by having a helper shift through the gears from inside the car while you are underneath it. Please note that if you're helper is your significant other try to remain calm and remember that this procedure, much like bleeding brakes, has been know to test the true measure of your relationship!
After you see how everything moves and is supposed to work have your helper select 2nd gear. Note the side-to-side position of the cross shaft. Then have your helper try to select 1st gear. If it won't go in try pushing on the shift arm. If it goes into gear you may need a fore-aft shift rod adjustment or some new bushings in the shift rods. If this doesn't work repeat the procedure, 2nd into 1st, and try moving the cross gate lever to give a little additional movement of the cross shaft towards the left side of the transaxle. If the problem is side-to-side gear gate linkage adjustment you should be able to shift into 1st gear in this manner. If you still can't select 1st gear then I would advise you to get it checked out by someone more familiar with the transaxle.
If you are able to engage 1st gear then proceed with the following to attempt to diagnose the problem: If the cross gate lever is not providing enough travel the first thing to do is make sure that the cable is properly secured to the bellhousing. To do this trace the cable forward to where it passes through a hole on the bellhousing near the starter motor. The cable sheath is secured there by a pair of nuts, about 21 or 22 mm if I remember correctly (a 7/8" wrench will work but be careful not to round off the points on the nuts). If these jamb juts are not tight there will be slop in the cable that will prevent you from having full side-to-side travel of the shifter. If these nuts are tight then a cross gate lever adjustment is likely necessary.
Cross gate lever adjustment is made by adjusting the turnbuckle (the cross gate cable rod in Lotus-speak) that joins the shift cable to the cross gate lever on the transaxle. Simply loosen the turnbuckle jamb nut (the nut, a 10mm I think, is at the forward end of the turnbuckle), remove the clevis pin that connects the turnbuckle to the cross gate lever and rotate the turnbuckle to give you more side-to-side travel towards the 1st gear gate. It won't require much adjustment, probably only a 1/2 or 1 turn as you can already select 2nd gear. Then reconnect the cable to the cross gate lever and try to shift into 2nd then 1st. Don't forget to remember how much you moved the turnbuckle so that you can get back to the original adjustment if you go the wrong way. Also remember that increasing the side-to-side thorw on the 1st gear side decreases the throw on the 5th gear / reverse side.
If more fore aft travel is needed to engage 1st gear then the first thing to do is inspect the bushings in the shift linkage rods. At each joint of the shift linkage rods there is a 3-piece bushing/bearing assembly and a shoulder bolt. The bushings are really nothing more than rubber grommets and the bearings are little teflon inserts that go between the bushing (grommet) and the shoulder bolt. Sevearl of these joints are right next to the exhaust and deteriorate rapidly due to heat and exposure to oil and gasoline. Just grab onto the linkage rods and move them while inspecting each joint for excessive free-play. If the joints are deteriorated they will need to be replaced. Each bearing/bushing combo is about $16.50. There a total of 7 of them going from the shift lever in the cockpit all the way back to the shift arm on the side of the transaxle. I know because I just replaced all of mine. They are readily available stateside from Tingle, JAE, RD, Dave Bean, etc. As a low buck quick-fix you can use -6 rubber hose (3/8"
in lieu of the bushing/bearing combo and it will work for a while. I know as I have used this trick when I have been in immediate need of reapair and poor at the same time. If the rod end bushing/bearings are intact then you will need to adjust the
length of the shift rod(s) to get increased fore-aft shift arm travel. The
easiest rod end to get to is the link that runs from the shift arm on the
transaxle to the pivot link on the bellhousing. Disconnect the rods at this
location and adjust the rod end to give additional travel in the appropriate
direction. Again remember how many turns you rotate the rod end so that you can return to the original position if required. Again remember that increasing the throw towards 1st gear decreases the throw towards 2nd.
Just have some patience and use common sense and you'll be able to figure this out. Its not rocket science.
BTW: I have a pair of .jpg pictures that I can send you if it will help you to visualize the shift arm and cross gate lever on the transaxle. Contact me
off-list and I will forward them to you directly.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ron Schramm
'84 Trubo (x2)
'77 S1
Gday all
Many thanks for the info and advice ...many much appreciated.....
Guess that gives me something to do over the xmas break....
Yes HOPE IT IS NOT THE CROWN PINION
Though overall i have not had much problem with Gcar ...so a little money spent now ..is not wasted
I do know the the gear selector and now very sloppy ( i can lift and slap it all over the place ,making a bit of noise ..bang bang bang )..... maybe a bolt has parted company.......(hope)
So hopefully it is the selectors ..out of alignment .....
If i need any more advice ...be sure i will call u GURUS
Many Thanks
Alex 87S3HC na
Many thanks for the info and advice ...many much appreciated.....
Guess that gives me something to do over the xmas break....
Yes HOPE IT IS NOT THE CROWN PINION
Though overall i have not had much problem with Gcar ...so a little money spent now ..is not wasted
I do know the the gear selector and now very sloppy ( i can lift and slap it all over the place ,making a bit of noise ..bang bang bang )..... maybe a bolt has parted company.......(hope)
So hopefully it is the selectors ..out of alignment .....
If i need any more advice ...be sure i will call u GURUS
Many Thanks
Alex 87S3HC na
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