What do you say about "Esprit Road Test, V8"?
Discussion
My comments on that road test.
Firstly they're using a US spec car so as your based in the UK that won't apply to you (i'm guessing!)
1. Steering
On the UK cars, you get a decent Momo sports steering wheel (without airbag) which has an excellent feel.
2. Presumably, being a US car it's LHD so the peddles would have to be shifted over to avoid a clash with the wheel arch. In the UK car, the peddles are well placed and there is a foot rest.
3. Interior vision - agree with the comments but the mirrors offer good rearward visibility once you get used to them.
4. I'd have to query the 0-60 times. On a standard V8, you should be looking at between 4.5 - 4.9 seconds 0-60 and about 10 seconds 0-100
5. Soft suspension. I suspect this might be another quirk of the US market - it most definitely isn't soft!
6. Looks of the car is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's a dated design but I beleive it still holds it's own today.
7. I have no sqeaks and rattles in mine and it's done 12K. I don't know of other V8 owners experiences but I've not heard of anything major on that front.
8. Boot space is actually not that bad considering (the spoiler mentioned is on earlier V8s, on newer ones, the spoiler lifts with the tailgate making access easier), and you get space under the bonnet as well.
In short, the best thing to do if considering a purchase is, obviously, to drive a few examples and see what you think.
Regards
John
Firstly they're using a US spec car so as your based in the UK that won't apply to you (i'm guessing!)
1. Steering
On the UK cars, you get a decent Momo sports steering wheel (without airbag) which has an excellent feel.
2. Presumably, being a US car it's LHD so the peddles would have to be shifted over to avoid a clash with the wheel arch. In the UK car, the peddles are well placed and there is a foot rest.
3. Interior vision - agree with the comments but the mirrors offer good rearward visibility once you get used to them.
4. I'd have to query the 0-60 times. On a standard V8, you should be looking at between 4.5 - 4.9 seconds 0-60 and about 10 seconds 0-100
5. Soft suspension. I suspect this might be another quirk of the US market - it most definitely isn't soft!
6. Looks of the car is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's a dated design but I beleive it still holds it's own today.
7. I have no sqeaks and rattles in mine and it's done 12K. I don't know of other V8 owners experiences but I've not heard of anything major on that front.
8. Boot space is actually not that bad considering (the spoiler mentioned is on earlier V8s, on newer ones, the spoiler lifts with the tailgate making access easier), and you get space under the bonnet as well.
In short, the best thing to do if considering a purchase is, obviously, to drive a few examples and see what you think.
Regards
John
0-60mph in 5.8 seconds! Did he start in 3rd gear? Tell him to read the May 1998 Motor Trend issue. They compared the Lotus V8, Corvette, Ferrari 355, Viper GTS, Porsche 911, Aston Martin, BMW M roadster, and Panoz. In EVERY performance category the Lotus was second, trailing only the Viper of course. He misses the entire point.
I think if you read all of the reviews, including the recent review of an 02 car, you'll see the car in balance. Imo, the author of that article did not see the car in balance, in fact it looked to me like he picked apart every detail he could.
US Mags have tested the Esprit at 4.2 to 4.6 second 0-60 times. It will eat a 993 or 996 for lunch in that catagory.
Many of his other comments apply to most of the worlds "supercars". There are things about the Esprit that bug me but I still think its a great car. My new 996 Cab was in the shop 8 times in 2 years, many of which were to fix rattles. After I sold it the tranmission went out on it. My 996TT gearchange broke with 700 miles on the car. You can get more stuff in the trunk of an Esprit than either of my Porsches.
The Esprit has its flaws but imo it's one of the last great supercars...
Roy
US Mags have tested the Esprit at 4.2 to 4.6 second 0-60 times. It will eat a 993 or 996 for lunch in that catagory.
Many of his other comments apply to most of the worlds "supercars". There are things about the Esprit that bug me but I still think its a great car. My new 996 Cab was in the shop 8 times in 2 years, many of which were to fix rattles. After I sold it the tranmission went out on it. My 996TT gearchange broke with 700 miles on the car. You can get more stuff in the trunk of an Esprit than either of my Porsches.
The Esprit has its flaws but imo it's one of the last great supercars...
Roy
What a weenie driver to get 5.8 sec on a 0-60 mph. He should not be test driving cars is that is all he got out of it. My 84 year old dad could beat him with a sports sedan. Many of these reports and reviews do nothing for me. Once I read glowing remarks about the M3 in a magazine as the best car for any type of money. Although fast and a very nice car I discounted that review after I learned how these test drives for reviews and report are conducted. In this particular case BMW flew a group of reviewers from the USA to Spain, put them up in 1st class accomodations, wined and dined at their expense, arranged non auto related full tours (golf, bull fights, wine tours, etc.) The took them to a race track for a days driving. The reviews all glowed and they gushed over the car. I'm sure the journalistic integerty kicked in and they all gave impartial opinions
. Well I'm told they (car companies) just about all do that. So all you auto companies, I just want you to know I am available to do such reviews and am prepared to write glowing reviews from any 1st class resort in the world you choose
. I don't even buy car mags anymore but I look at the pictures and a few stats from time to time.
Calvin 90 SE
. Well I'm told they (car companies) just about all do that. So all you auto companies, I just want you to know I am available to do such reviews and am prepared to write glowing reviews from any 1st class resort in the world you choose. I don't even buy car mags anymore but I look at the pictures and a few stats from time to time. Calvin 90 SE
I've read the Revs Magazine's test here on this site, and the Esprit V8 sounds like a quite mediocre car.
I think it was more a mediocre driver...
What do you V8-owners think about this test? Is it a fair judgement?
No.
Oh, you want reasons? Well, he compares the car to an MR2. He appears to think that the best thing about the car is the ability to "get chicks". He completely misses the plot regarding the engine. The Lotus 918 can produce a whopping 550 bhp with nothing more than an ecu upgrade. The limiting factor is the transmission (which was never mentioned). Lotus limits power so everyone doesn't drive off the lot and rip out synchros and half shafts.
I wouldn't even classify this guy as a journalist. That would be doing a disservice to journalists worldwide (even the current crop of SUV loving muppets). IIRC, this review was (originally) posted on a site were they were more interested in flogging pictures of nude women than writing about cars. I also believe that there were a fair amount of "rice-boy" (AKA Max Power) type cars on the site that were considered automotive Nirvana...
...When reading a review, consider the source!
IMHO
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Tuesday 26th November 14:49
Hi all,
This guy clearly simply doesn't like the car. If anyone here thinks you can get an objective appraisal of any car in a commercial medium, you are living in dreamland.
People have more of a tendency to label an article objective if they personally agree with it's conclusions, and non-objective if they don't. But that doesn't make it so.
The 'product' produced by ANY commercial medium, be it television, radio, magazines or newspapers is YOU. This is what these mediums sell to their customers, who are not the readers or subscribers as some may think, but rather are the advertisers. These media can fix their advertising rates on their ability to deliver YOU to the advertiser. The more readers they can produce for the advertisers, the more money they make...period!
As such, they are going to produce a work which will deliver the greatest number of demographically correct readers. And in anything automotive related, this means the young (18-31 year old), single male. This will bias the results toward the more current, more mass produced, more 'bragging rights' cars.
Like it or not, while Lotus cars may be limited production, so are their owners. We, as a group, do not comprise a demographic which is particularly attractive to advertisers. We tend to be older, better educated, dispose of less of our income on trendy consumable items. Also, our sheer lack of numbers makes any attempt to attract us, rather than the 'correct' demographic, bad business practice.
Consequently, I never expect to see Lotus rate higher in reviews or tests than Porsche, Ferrari, BMW or even some of the product offerings from Japan.
And as far as the performance claims. These are always produced under ideal conditions, by professional drivers. The stats are used extensively in advertising and in countering those of rival carmakers. There isn't a person on this list that can take a V8 Esprit 0-60 in 4.2 except maybe in their dreams or after days of practice, and even then I doubt it.
When Lamborghini/Audi produced advertising stats for the Murcielago, it took them 3 days at a closed track, using 3 test drivers, tires from 4 different manufacturers, endless suspension set-ups and tire pressure changes, engine tuning tweaks and racing gas to produce the numbers they use in advertising. I can assure you that Lotus went to similar lengths to achieve the V8's numbers. So, I suspect that the author's numbers are somewhat 'real world' accurate for a car with 20k miles on it, driven by an amateur driver who has little familiarity with the car, and on stock tires and wet pavement.
There are even sedans which are now boasting numbers equal or near equal to those of the Esprit such as the Audi Rs6, Merc SL55AMG, BMW M5 etc. While they may be able to get them to go that fast, I certainly wouldn't want to be in one of them at those speeds.
What it all boils down to is that we are intensely passionate about, and fiercely loyal to, these cars and will assail anyone in an instant if they feel differently, especially in print. You'll never convince a Porsche or Ferrari owner that Lotus is better, nor will they have much chance of convincing you otherwise. Just my usual $0.02... Jim '85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 27th November 23:27
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 27th November 23:31
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 28th November 07:36
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 28th November 07:45
This guy clearly simply doesn't like the car. If anyone here thinks you can get an objective appraisal of any car in a commercial medium, you are living in dreamland.
People have more of a tendency to label an article objective if they personally agree with it's conclusions, and non-objective if they don't. But that doesn't make it so.
The 'product' produced by ANY commercial medium, be it television, radio, magazines or newspapers is YOU. This is what these mediums sell to their customers, who are not the readers or subscribers as some may think, but rather are the advertisers. These media can fix their advertising rates on their ability to deliver YOU to the advertiser. The more readers they can produce for the advertisers, the more money they make...period!
As such, they are going to produce a work which will deliver the greatest number of demographically correct readers. And in anything automotive related, this means the young (18-31 year old), single male. This will bias the results toward the more current, more mass produced, more 'bragging rights' cars.
Like it or not, while Lotus cars may be limited production, so are their owners. We, as a group, do not comprise a demographic which is particularly attractive to advertisers. We tend to be older, better educated, dispose of less of our income on trendy consumable items. Also, our sheer lack of numbers makes any attempt to attract us, rather than the 'correct' demographic, bad business practice.
Consequently, I never expect to see Lotus rate higher in reviews or tests than Porsche, Ferrari, BMW or even some of the product offerings from Japan.
And as far as the performance claims. These are always produced under ideal conditions, by professional drivers. The stats are used extensively in advertising and in countering those of rival carmakers. There isn't a person on this list that can take a V8 Esprit 0-60 in 4.2 except maybe in their dreams or after days of practice, and even then I doubt it.
When Lamborghini/Audi produced advertising stats for the Murcielago, it took them 3 days at a closed track, using 3 test drivers, tires from 4 different manufacturers, endless suspension set-ups and tire pressure changes, engine tuning tweaks and racing gas to produce the numbers they use in advertising. I can assure you that Lotus went to similar lengths to achieve the V8's numbers. So, I suspect that the author's numbers are somewhat 'real world' accurate for a car with 20k miles on it, driven by an amateur driver who has little familiarity with the car, and on stock tires and wet pavement.
There are even sedans which are now boasting numbers equal or near equal to those of the Esprit such as the Audi Rs6, Merc SL55AMG, BMW M5 etc. While they may be able to get them to go that fast, I certainly wouldn't want to be in one of them at those speeds.
What it all boils down to is that we are intensely passionate about, and fiercely loyal to, these cars and will assail anyone in an instant if they feel differently, especially in print. You'll never convince a Porsche or Ferrari owner that Lotus is better, nor will they have much chance of convincing you otherwise. Just my usual $0.02... Jim '85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 27th November 23:27
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 27th November 23:31
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 28th November 07:36
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 28th November 07:45
lotusguy:
I agree with most of what you have said except for one thing:
This muppet tested acceleration in the rain! In the RAIN! I'm waiting for his next road test when he will test acceleration on the Ferrari 360 on a 45 degree grade, uphill, with a strong wind (in the snow of course, "because this is Canada") Idiot! The man's lucky to be alive (with his G-Force accelerometer self) considering the lack of LSD in the standard V8. He's a Darwin Award candidate. I stand by my original statement that as a motor journalist he is the walking litmus test for "what not to do"...
(rant mode off)
Had this been a normal "It's cramped", "There's no cupholder", "I banged my head getting into the thing" or even "My overweight @rse couldn't fit" but ended up with the obligatory "...but it's a blast to drive in the twisties as it handles like it's on rails" type of review, I would have let it go... (
after all, we are all used to those by now from the motoring press)
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 28th November 01:37
I agree with most of what you have said except for one thing:
This muppet tested acceleration in the rain! In the RAIN! I'm waiting for his next road test when he will test acceleration on the Ferrari 360 on a 45 degree grade, uphill, with a strong wind (in the snow of course, "because this is Canada") Idiot! The man's lucky to be alive (with his G-Force accelerometer self) considering the lack of LSD in the standard V8. He's a Darwin Award candidate. I stand by my original statement that as a motor journalist he is the walking litmus test for "what not to do"... (rant mode off)
Had this been a normal "It's cramped", "There's no cupholder", "I banged my head getting into the thing" or even "My overweight @rse couldn't fit" but ended up with the obligatory "...but it's a blast to drive in the twisties as it handles like it's on rails" type of review, I would have let it go... (
after all, we are all used to those by now from the motoring press) ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 28th November 01:37
Great post Jim! Us "Lotus" people seem to be more humble, intelligent, and friendlier than any other car owner groups out there. in MY opinion. I've hopped around different auto group forums and it's just different...It's hard to explain but it just seems more like family with the Lotus folk....Were we talking about "Esprit Road Tests?"...
Ed-
Ed-
ErnestM said: lotusguy:
I agree with most of what you have said except for one thing:
(rant mode off)
Had this been a normal "It's cramped", "There's no cupholder", "I banged my head getting into the thing" or even "My overweight @rse couldn't fit" but ended up with the obligatory "...but it's a blast to drive in the twisties as it handles like it's on rails" type of review, I would have let it go... (
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 28th November 01:37
ErnestM,
I never said the author wasn't a blithering idiot, nor did I propose that his article was anywhere near 'Pulizer' material.
I think you are spot on. I merely pointed out that these kinds of articles shouldn't surprise anyone.
Also, that we shouldn't accept Lotus statistical claims as Bible either. Even if a stock V8 can produce these numbers, they certainly can't do so repeatedly without very frequent and spendy repair bills. We love these cars for their superior overall balance, unusual styling and exclusivity, and that's a lot.
Porsche grinds out 911's in Stuttgart like link sausages, and these cars have a broad appeal. Especially to those who wish to be the envy of the entire flock. That doesn't make them especially good cars, despite the favor which writers continually bestow upon them...Jim '85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Thursday 28th November 08:51
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