V8 Clutch Problem
Discussion
My '97 V8 was recently at a main dealer for a variety of reasons but the engine was out and the dealer suggested fitting a new clutch as it looked worn. I asked them to measure the friction thickness and was told it was 6mm exactly. A new clutch is 7mm and the service limit is 5.75mm The clutch had done 22,000 miles. When I got the old clutch home, it measures 6.5mm to 6.7mm. Now, I am very, very light on clutches and do 5,000 miles a year. Doesn't take much maths to work out that there was probably over 20,000 miles or 4 years left in the clutch !
I have had my measurement verified by the factory who now have the clutch.
The point is this: If it is reasonable to replace a clutch just because it looks worn, then what's the point of having a service limit measurement ? If the new clutch is only 7mm, then a fully worn one at 5.75mm would look very little different. The dealer is, of course, banking on the "worn out looking" ploy but I still feel they were wrong to advise me of the 6mm measurement. Which approach is correct and what can I do about it ?
>> Edited by toyroom on Sunday 30th October 22:44
I have had my measurement verified by the factory who now have the clutch.
The point is this: If it is reasonable to replace a clutch just because it looks worn, then what's the point of having a service limit measurement ? If the new clutch is only 7mm, then a fully worn one at 5.75mm would look very little different. The dealer is, of course, banking on the "worn out looking" ploy but I still feel they were wrong to advise me of the 6mm measurement. Which approach is correct and what can I do about it ?
>> Edited by toyroom on Sunday 30th October 22:44
toyroom said:
If the new clutch is only 7mm, then a fully worn one at 5.75mm would look very little different. The dealer is, of course, banking on the "worn out looking" ploy but I still feel they were wrong to advise me of the 6mm measurement. Which approach is correct and what can I do about it ?
Nothing to be done at this point other than bite the bullet and fume. I assume you signed an authorization to proceed with the work.
toyroom said:
My '97 V8 was recently at a main dealer for a variety of reasons but the engine was out and the dealer suggested fitting a new clutch as it looked worn. I asked them to measure the friction thickness and was told it was 6mm exactly. A new clutch is 7mm and the service limit is 5.75mm The clutch had done 22,000 miles. When I got the old clutch home, it measures 6.5mm to 6.7mm. Now, I am very, very light on clutches and do 5,000 miles a year. Doesn't take much maths to work out that there was probably over 20,000 miles or 4 years left in the clutch ! <br/>I have had my measurement verified by the factory who now have the clutch. <br/>The point is this: If it is reasonable to replace a clutch just because it looks worn, then what's the point of having a service limit measurement ? If the new clutch is only 7mm, then a fully worn one at 5.75mm would look very little different. The dealer is, of course, banking on the "worn out looking" ploy but I still feel they were wrong to advise me of the 6mm measurement. Which approach is correct and what can I do about it ?
Oh well, let me know if you want to reline the disc. I found someone here in the U.S. that relined my clutch disc. Mine only lasted 25,000 miles. The reline is 7.2 which is acceptable thickness and works fine. I cannot go wrong using other material since the AP racing material is sucks. Cost me $210. (for two) I bought a new clutch throw out bearing & pilot bearing. All my other clutch components are ok.
I have to disagree... the AP clutch is fine in general. I wound up replacing mine after 42K miles due to a manufacturing defect... they never lubed the clutch splines and they rusted up creating a bind. Lotus actually replaced the gearbox as the synchros were ground to dust in less than 20K miles. And of course, the dopey dealer also forgot to lube the splines when they replaced the gearbox (despite my asking them to check this), so the same thing happened again. But, even after 42K miles of what can easily be considered hazardous clutch duty, the disc linings are fine, still over 7mm thick. If your clutch didn't last very long on the lining, I have to suspect somebody doesn't know how to drive... either previous or current owner or you have a problem with clutch hydraulics. Sorry, but I still think the clutch is NOT a bad piece.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Regards, KM
2000 V8
busanostra said:
You can disagree as much as you want all the way to your 42,000 miles. I bought this car used and ready for a new clutch. Go to Esprit archive and see for yourself. Look for a bunch of clutch problems in the thread.
Ask Harry too at Viking Motorsports & the guy from Boston (I think RS motorsports),ask how many they replaced.
While there, ask that stupid 2 row V8 radiator that easily clog like your toilet pipes.
Muy bien senor if you reach that far. I am here to help in case he wants to relign the disc.
Sorry, but I think you missed the point... I'm not pointing the finger at you personally. It could easily be that the previous couldn't drive the clutch properly... which I've seen before. The AP clutch hsa a narrow friction band and can easily get burned by an inexperienced driver. As for the radiator.... it's well underrated, per older threads posted by me. I had a custom unit made by Griffin which they have on file (which means other owners can get one). This will easily keep your engine's cool.... and hopefully yours too.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
In this forum and archive, There were 14 V8 related clutch problems.
In the Esprit fact files, they vividly mentioned the clutch inferior material.
"I asked them to measure the friction thickness and was told it was 6mm exactly. A new clutch is 7mm and the service limit is 5.75mm "
The guy went to Lotus dealer, they visually & measured the thickness. Regardless of which micrometer is right, you have to give the dealer
the benefit of the doubt. The owner has to make a wise decision or it could be doomed in the long run. I will not tell the guy that his clutch is fine
since I have not seen it. I can only give him an alternative of relining his clutch if he wanted to. A bit chepear route.
"But, even after 42K miles of what can easily be considered hazardous clutch duty, the disc linings are fine, still over 7mm thick."
The Lotus spec in a new clutch is 7mm, how could yours over 7mm over 42k. Your clutch keeps getting better as you putting a bunch of miles?
In the Esprit fact files, they vividly mentioned the clutch inferior material.
"I asked them to measure the friction thickness and was told it was 6mm exactly. A new clutch is 7mm and the service limit is 5.75mm "
The guy went to Lotus dealer, they visually & measured the thickness. Regardless of which micrometer is right, you have to give the dealer
the benefit of the doubt. The owner has to make a wise decision or it could be doomed in the long run. I will not tell the guy that his clutch is fine
since I have not seen it. I can only give him an alternative of relining his clutch if he wanted to. A bit chepear route.
"But, even after 42K miles of what can easily be considered hazardous clutch duty, the disc linings are fine, still over 7mm thick."
The Lotus spec in a new clutch is 7mm, how could yours over 7mm over 42k. Your clutch keeps getting better as you putting a bunch of miles?
Sorry for the brain-fart... I was in Europe and lack of sleep. Yes, 7.0mm is the specification for a new clutch. According to my service notes the limit is shown as "TBA" so perhaps Lotus finally picked a limit. In any case, now that I'm home I measured the original clutch discs (with 42K miles) and they are 6.86mm hence my original opinion that the clutch is not a bad unit. I'm not going to be surprised if there are some defective ones... after all, tis Lotus-sourced. However, I've seen a few of these as well... and some have been smoked in a short time from poor driver control and/or bad hydraulics and of course, lack of lubrication of the splines. I'm just not convinced every clutch failure has been poor quality versus mechanical and/or driver related issues.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Sorry guys, this still isn't answering the question of which is correct: Replace it when it looks worn or replace it when it wears down to 5.75mm (Factory service limit as of October 2005). These can't both be correct. If the clutch is to be replaced when it looks worn out then there is no point in stating a service limit and vice versa.
My beef is that the dealer told me the thickness was 6mm when it was 6.5mm (verified by the factory) and as I had covered 22,000 miles on this clutch at 5,000 a year, I am suggesting that the clutch had four to five years left if the service limit is to be the criterion for replacement. The dealer knows I am a retent and they gave me the old part so I belive this was a genuine mistake. I just don't think I should have to pay for another's mistake.
My beef is that the dealer told me the thickness was 6mm when it was 6.5mm (verified by the factory) and as I had covered 22,000 miles on this clutch at 5,000 a year, I am suggesting that the clutch had four to five years left if the service limit is to be the criterion for replacement. The dealer knows I am a retent and they gave me the old part so I belive this was a genuine mistake. I just don't think I should have to pay for another's mistake.
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