Esprit S3 Gearbox Wanted
Discussion
Esprit-Citroen transaxles aren't exactly plentiful. It may be easier and more cost effective to rebuild it. Harry Martens in the Netherlands can provide you with just about any part you need.
Harry Martens Limmen
De Wieken 22
1906 DC Limmen
Netherlands
www.ds-vitesse.com/home.html website
info@ds-vitesse.com e-mail
0031 (0) 72 505 55 70 phone
Independent Citroen transmission repair specialist. Claims to have every part in stock. New, or very good used.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North, USA
Harry Martens Limmen
De Wieken 22
1906 DC Limmen
Netherlands
www.ds-vitesse.com/home.html website
info@ds-vitesse.com e-mail
0031 (0) 72 505 55 70 phone
Independent Citroen transmission repair specialist. Claims to have every part in stock. New, or very good used.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North, USA
Thanks for the reply's.
The splines are warn down on the clutch shaft (aka input shaft) where it connects into the gearbox primary shaft. I know that the clutch shaft is still available from Lotus but unfortunately it looks like the splines on the primary shaft are also warn and apparently these are obsolete.
Thanks
Mark
The splines are warn down on the clutch shaft (aka input shaft) where it connects into the gearbox primary shaft. I know that the clutch shaft is still available from Lotus but unfortunately it looks like the splines on the primary shaft are also warn and apparently these are obsolete.
Thanks
Mark
mark three said:
The splines are warn down on the clutch shaft (aka input shaft) where it connects into the gearbox primary shaft. I know that the clutch shaft is still available from Lotus but unfortunately it looks like the splines on the primary shaft are also warn and apparently these are obsolete.
Mark,
If only the input shaft requires replacement, the "gearbox" itself doesn't have to come apart. Just remove the output shaft housings and the bell housing.
If the primary shaft spline is also bad, then you will have to partially dismantle the gearbox. If all you do inside the box is R&R the primary shaft, then no special tools are required
If you elect to replace the 1st & 2nd gear synchros while you're in there, then the secondary shaft will have to come out as well. For that you will need a special wrench to remove the speedo gear/nut that holds it all together. I can send a drawing to you that shows how to modify a 36mm or 1 3/8" crowsfoot wrench for the task.
For something as minor as replacing the input & primary shafts, I'd definitely suggest rebuilding over replacing.
Harry Martens has got all the parts you need at a fraction of the price Lotus would have charged if Lotus had them.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Thanks Tim
I'll probably have a go at removing the primary shaft because as far as I can see through the bellhousing the spines are warn here also. Do you know if it will be a case of just replacing the primary shaft in the gearbox or are there any ancillaries, such as oil seals, that should be changed?
Thanks
Mark
I'll probably have a go at removing the primary shaft because as far as I can see through the bellhousing the spines are warn here also. Do you know if it will be a case of just replacing the primary shaft in the gearbox or are there any ancillaries, such as oil seals, that should be changed?
Thanks
Mark
Mark - There is always something else to replace...
You might want to check with Harry first to figure out just what you will need to replace. I seem to recall that the parts he has may have slightly different gear ratios than Lotus originally specified, so you may be replacing first or second gear along with the shaft. Syncros are usually a good idea as long as the box is apart, as are bearings.
Mike
>> Edited by mike.griese on Wednesday 19th October 15:02
You might want to check with Harry first to figure out just what you will need to replace. I seem to recall that the parts he has may have slightly different gear ratios than Lotus originally specified, so you may be replacing first or second gear along with the shaft. Syncros are usually a good idea as long as the box is apart, as are bearings.
Mike
>> Edited by mike.griese on Wednesday 19th October 15:02
Mark,
The only must haves are gaskets for the output shaft housings, O-rings for the tube through which the input shaft runs, a new circlip to secure the input shaft into the primary shaft, and a new Nylatron thrust washer for the input shaft (Lotus only, Harry can't help you there).
You may need a new stop ring. It's a glorified snap ring. It's available in several thicknesses and sets the end float in the primary shaft assembly. Change a major part (like the shaft) and it may be necessary to change the shim/ stop ring.
The front ball bearing on the primary shaft is cheap as dirt and one of the more common bearings on the planet. It would be wise to replace it as long as it has to come out anyway in order to remove the primary shaft.
Synchro rings are optional as long as you are in there and you will have 3, 4 & 5 in your hands. Unfortunately, 1 & 2 are the ones that typically wear out first, but they're down on the secondary shaft deeper in the gearbox.
The cross-shaft is sealed with O-rings that tend to dry out (they are all old by now) and leak. It's not necessary to change them to accomplish your repair, but changing them is easy and relatively quick. I suggest that you replace them.
The 1st & 2nd gear pinions are a part of the primary shaft. Change the shaft and you automatically change the pinions. To be perfectly correct about he repair, gears are always replaced in matched sets. The mating gears are on the secondary shaft in the bottom of the box.
If you elect to go all the way, then the job turns into more of a full rebuild. Not that you have to replace everything, but you will have it fully disassembled before you're done.
Removing the secondary shaft will require a special tool (I can send a drawing to you).
Replacing the 1st & 2nd gears on the secondary shaft will probably alter the pinion height setting. To properly measure the pinion height, you will need a fixture that is no longer produced. Harry may be able to set you up with one on a loaner basis. Then you will need a selection of shim washers. Harry can send you a few... send back what you don't use.
With the pinion height re-shimmed, it would be best to re-shim the differential to set the bearing load and backlash.
Do you "have" to replace 1st & 2nd in matched sets? It's best, but no you don't. My best advice is to go all the way and replace gears in sets. But, to live within budgets, I have replaced only the primary shaft a couple of times and have had no problems. If things were to go wrong, sypmtoms may vary widely from simply more gear whine in 1st & 2nd, to increased wear from running mis-matched teeth on one another, to premature gear failure sometime down the road. That's worst case and possible, but not a strong probability.
Scare you off? I didn't mean to. I just thought you should know the details and then choose. You can still just replace the primary shaft and probably not suffer any downside. E-mail Harry for an opinion.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
The only must haves are gaskets for the output shaft housings, O-rings for the tube through which the input shaft runs, a new circlip to secure the input shaft into the primary shaft, and a new Nylatron thrust washer for the input shaft (Lotus only, Harry can't help you there).
You may need a new stop ring. It's a glorified snap ring. It's available in several thicknesses and sets the end float in the primary shaft assembly. Change a major part (like the shaft) and it may be necessary to change the shim/ stop ring.
The front ball bearing on the primary shaft is cheap as dirt and one of the more common bearings on the planet. It would be wise to replace it as long as it has to come out anyway in order to remove the primary shaft.
Synchro rings are optional as long as you are in there and you will have 3, 4 & 5 in your hands. Unfortunately, 1 & 2 are the ones that typically wear out first, but they're down on the secondary shaft deeper in the gearbox.
The cross-shaft is sealed with O-rings that tend to dry out (they are all old by now) and leak. It's not necessary to change them to accomplish your repair, but changing them is easy and relatively quick. I suggest that you replace them.
The 1st & 2nd gear pinions are a part of the primary shaft. Change the shaft and you automatically change the pinions. To be perfectly correct about he repair, gears are always replaced in matched sets. The mating gears are on the secondary shaft in the bottom of the box.
If you elect to go all the way, then the job turns into more of a full rebuild. Not that you have to replace everything, but you will have it fully disassembled before you're done.
Removing the secondary shaft will require a special tool (I can send a drawing to you).
Replacing the 1st & 2nd gears on the secondary shaft will probably alter the pinion height setting. To properly measure the pinion height, you will need a fixture that is no longer produced. Harry may be able to set you up with one on a loaner basis. Then you will need a selection of shim washers. Harry can send you a few... send back what you don't use.
With the pinion height re-shimmed, it would be best to re-shim the differential to set the bearing load and backlash.
Do you "have" to replace 1st & 2nd in matched sets? It's best, but no you don't. My best advice is to go all the way and replace gears in sets. But, to live within budgets, I have replaced only the primary shaft a couple of times and have had no problems. If things were to go wrong, sypmtoms may vary widely from simply more gear whine in 1st & 2nd, to increased wear from running mis-matched teeth on one another, to premature gear failure sometime down the road. That's worst case and possible, but not a strong probability.
Scare you off? I didn't mean to. I just thought you should know the details and then choose. You can still just replace the primary shaft and probably not suffer any downside. E-mail Harry for an opinion.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Thanks for all that detail Tim. From just having the top cover off the gearbox all looks unwarn , oil was clean with no bits of metal on the magnetic drain plug.
I think that taking it apart to see is the best option. Nothing to loose I suppose as it's no good as it is.
Unless I could just replace the box with the right thing at the right price.
Garry, was your gearbox a worker when it was on the car. Is it from an S3?
Thanks
Mark
I think that taking it apart to see is the best option. Nothing to loose I suppose as it's no good as it is.
Unless I could just replace the box with the right thing at the right price.
Garry, was your gearbox a worker when it was on the car. Is it from an S3?
Thanks
Mark
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