can not get rerverse gear
Discussion
please help just bought a s3 esprit did a stupid thing did not test reverse gear it is trying to go in but will not go in to the gear hope fully it is the linkage and not the gear box can i get an overhaul kit for the linkage please help .not a good start also need an exaust manifould cheers mike
Mike:
Get under the back of the car and locate the linkages where they go into the gearbox. Work out from the stick movement how they operate, then manually pull the box into gear. Start her up with the clutch down and see if it works.
My car sometimes jumps out of reverse, this test proved the box was OK but the linkages had so much slop in the pivots that the stick couldn't engage the gear properly. I improved it by 'lengthening' the rod at the bellcrank on the right-hand engine mounting.
I bet you a fiver yours has the same problem
Get under the back of the car and locate the linkages where they go into the gearbox. Work out from the stick movement how they operate, then manually pull the box into gear. Start her up with the clutch down and see if it works.
My car sometimes jumps out of reverse, this test proved the box was OK but the linkages had so much slop in the pivots that the stick couldn't engage the gear properly. I improved it by 'lengthening' the rod at the bellcrank on the right-hand engine mounting.
I bet you a fiver yours has the same problem
Mike,
Excuse the obvious comment, but there is a lockout in the shifter mechanism. To get reverse, you must lift up on the shift lever until it stops, then go full right and back. If you don't lift first, then a pin in the mechanism stops the lever's motion to the right when it's aligned with the 5th gear gate. Lift the lever/pin to continue moving right to the reverse gate... then back.
If you knew all that and it still doesn't work, then the usual culprit is the cross gate cable adjustment.
Get under the car and look at the bell crank on the left rear of the gearbox where the cross gate cable attaches. The bell crank moves a shifter cross shaft side to side, and reverse is full right. Look at the set up and it should be pretty obvious that in order to pull the cross shaft hard right, the cable must push it's leg of the bell crank hard back/ aft.
If manually forcing the bell crank a little further back suddenly makes reverse available, then the cross gate cable adjustment is the problem.
Remove the cable from the bell crank. Turn the fitting on the end of the cable to the left, counter-clockwise, unscrewing it to make the cable assembly longer. Re-fit it to the bell crank and give it a try. Very small adjustments make a difference. I suggest your work up to success in a series of half-turn steps.
Stop as soon as it works and don't go beyond. The shifter's range of motion is "just" enough to get both the reverse gate and the 1-2 gate, with little or nothing to spare. If you over adjust in favor of reverse, you may lose 1-2.
With a new, fresh cross gate cable the motion is very positive. As it ages, the cable gets spongy and gets sloppy. Some of that is a result of the crimped-on ferrules coming loose and sliding back and forth (there are ferrules front and rear). Any ferrule movement is lost motion and the shifter doesn't have enough extra range to accommodate it. If the cable is sloppy, the only fix is a new cable.
On my bell crank, I drilled a new hole about half way between the original hole and the pivot point. That reduces the amount of shifter motion required, but also makes more total cross shaft motion available at the gearbox end. Sort of a one-axis short-shifter conversion. If the cable has gotten sloppy, this will help extend it's life... but it's only a band aid. The cure is a new cable. The only long term justification for the new hole is if you like the feel of the shorter cross gate throw.
If the cable and it's adjustments are all perfect and it still won't go into reverse, then the problem is internal.
There are metal fingers brazed to the cross shaft inside the gearbox. They hang down and engage the shift rails to move the shift forkes back and forth. They are known to bend, or more often for the brazing to fail. In that case, a replacement cross shaft can be installed without removing the gearbox from the car. I also know folk who have had the fingers re-brazed and put the old shaft back into service with no ill effects.
If someone has been into the gearbox recently, it's easy to mess up when locating the reverse shift dog. If it's out of position by just a little bit, you won't be able to engage reverse. That too can be adjusted without removing the gearbox from the car. However, this time at least the boot floor will have to be removed. You can remove the top cover with the boot floor in place, but you would have a hard time seeing what you're doing using mirrors. Especially if it's your first time in there. Remove the floor.
There is no synchro on reverse, so there's little else to go wrong inside. However, there's also nothing else making it easier to get into reverse. So try shifting into 1st or 2nd immediately prior to making your move for reverse. That should bring all the relavent parts to a halt before trying to engage reverse.
If the clutch is not releasing fully, there will be some torque/rotation transmitted to the gearbox. That will make selecting any gear more difficult since the synchros cannot overcome the steady supply of torque... especially the lower ratios like first and reverse... and especially reverse since it's not synchronised.
If that's the case, hope for red-hose syndrome. The clutch hydraulic hose is red plastic. Some folk maintain that as the hose gets hot, it expands under pressure. Then motion is wasted expanding the hose rather than moving the clutch, and the clutch doesn't release fully. The fix is to install a steel braided hose (ie, AeroQuip). There are those who will cry, "balderdash", but I'm of the opinion it makes a difference.
Finally, and you don't want this, the Citroen gearbox's input shaft is spring loaded forward and retained by a delicate little circlip. On S1/S2 input shafts there was a definite step/shoulder for the circlip to bear against so it could provide positive retention. However, on the Turbo Citroen, the step on the input shaft was softened to a conical taper to remove stress risers and strengthen the shaft. However, the taper only facilitates the input shaft slipping past the circlip.
If that happens, the spring will force the input shaft forward against the spigot bearing and the end of the crankshaft. There's a Nylatron thrust washer in there, but it will wear out in short order under the pressure. Then the shaft will auger into the spigot and crank. When that happens, there will be a constant friction drag between the crank and input shaft even if the clutch is fully dis-engaged. Shifting becomes difficult as a first sign of trouble.
If left unchecked, the input shaft will machine it's way forward into the crank until the splines at the rear disengage to the point that they can no longer transmit the torque. Then they strip and your dead along side the road. No go in any gear, but a terrible skreeching when you let out the clutch while in gear.
OEM repair... new input and primary shafts installed in the gearbox (disassembly) and take the crankshaft to a machine shop for repair (engine disassembly). Permanent fix... replace the spigot needle bearing with a proper ball bearing similar to Esprit-Renault configuration.
Hopefully you will solve your problem by lifting the shift lever or adjusting the cross gate cable length.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North, USA
Excuse the obvious comment, but there is a lockout in the shifter mechanism. To get reverse, you must lift up on the shift lever until it stops, then go full right and back. If you don't lift first, then a pin in the mechanism stops the lever's motion to the right when it's aligned with the 5th gear gate. Lift the lever/pin to continue moving right to the reverse gate... then back.
If you knew all that and it still doesn't work, then the usual culprit is the cross gate cable adjustment.
Get under the car and look at the bell crank on the left rear of the gearbox where the cross gate cable attaches. The bell crank moves a shifter cross shaft side to side, and reverse is full right. Look at the set up and it should be pretty obvious that in order to pull the cross shaft hard right, the cable must push it's leg of the bell crank hard back/ aft.
If manually forcing the bell crank a little further back suddenly makes reverse available, then the cross gate cable adjustment is the problem.
Remove the cable from the bell crank. Turn the fitting on the end of the cable to the left, counter-clockwise, unscrewing it to make the cable assembly longer. Re-fit it to the bell crank and give it a try. Very small adjustments make a difference. I suggest your work up to success in a series of half-turn steps.
Stop as soon as it works and don't go beyond. The shifter's range of motion is "just" enough to get both the reverse gate and the 1-2 gate, with little or nothing to spare. If you over adjust in favor of reverse, you may lose 1-2.
With a new, fresh cross gate cable the motion is very positive. As it ages, the cable gets spongy and gets sloppy. Some of that is a result of the crimped-on ferrules coming loose and sliding back and forth (there are ferrules front and rear). Any ferrule movement is lost motion and the shifter doesn't have enough extra range to accommodate it. If the cable is sloppy, the only fix is a new cable.
On my bell crank, I drilled a new hole about half way between the original hole and the pivot point. That reduces the amount of shifter motion required, but also makes more total cross shaft motion available at the gearbox end. Sort of a one-axis short-shifter conversion. If the cable has gotten sloppy, this will help extend it's life... but it's only a band aid. The cure is a new cable. The only long term justification for the new hole is if you like the feel of the shorter cross gate throw.
If the cable and it's adjustments are all perfect and it still won't go into reverse, then the problem is internal.
There are metal fingers brazed to the cross shaft inside the gearbox. They hang down and engage the shift rails to move the shift forkes back and forth. They are known to bend, or more often for the brazing to fail. In that case, a replacement cross shaft can be installed without removing the gearbox from the car. I also know folk who have had the fingers re-brazed and put the old shaft back into service with no ill effects.
If someone has been into the gearbox recently, it's easy to mess up when locating the reverse shift dog. If it's out of position by just a little bit, you won't be able to engage reverse. That too can be adjusted without removing the gearbox from the car. However, this time at least the boot floor will have to be removed. You can remove the top cover with the boot floor in place, but you would have a hard time seeing what you're doing using mirrors. Especially if it's your first time in there. Remove the floor.
There is no synchro on reverse, so there's little else to go wrong inside. However, there's also nothing else making it easier to get into reverse. So try shifting into 1st or 2nd immediately prior to making your move for reverse. That should bring all the relavent parts to a halt before trying to engage reverse.
If the clutch is not releasing fully, there will be some torque/rotation transmitted to the gearbox. That will make selecting any gear more difficult since the synchros cannot overcome the steady supply of torque... especially the lower ratios like first and reverse... and especially reverse since it's not synchronised.
If that's the case, hope for red-hose syndrome. The clutch hydraulic hose is red plastic. Some folk maintain that as the hose gets hot, it expands under pressure. Then motion is wasted expanding the hose rather than moving the clutch, and the clutch doesn't release fully. The fix is to install a steel braided hose (ie, AeroQuip). There are those who will cry, "balderdash", but I'm of the opinion it makes a difference.
Finally, and you don't want this, the Citroen gearbox's input shaft is spring loaded forward and retained by a delicate little circlip. On S1/S2 input shafts there was a definite step/shoulder for the circlip to bear against so it could provide positive retention. However, on the Turbo Citroen, the step on the input shaft was softened to a conical taper to remove stress risers and strengthen the shaft. However, the taper only facilitates the input shaft slipping past the circlip.
If that happens, the spring will force the input shaft forward against the spigot bearing and the end of the crankshaft. There's a Nylatron thrust washer in there, but it will wear out in short order under the pressure. Then the shaft will auger into the spigot and crank. When that happens, there will be a constant friction drag between the crank and input shaft even if the clutch is fully dis-engaged. Shifting becomes difficult as a first sign of trouble.
If left unchecked, the input shaft will machine it's way forward into the crank until the splines at the rear disengage to the point that they can no longer transmit the torque. Then they strip and your dead along side the road. No go in any gear, but a terrible skreeching when you let out the clutch while in gear.
OEM repair... new input and primary shafts installed in the gearbox (disassembly) and take the crankshaft to a machine shop for repair (engine disassembly). Permanent fix... replace the spigot needle bearing with a proper ball bearing similar to Esprit-Renault configuration.
Hopefully you will solve your problem by lifting the shift lever or adjusting the cross gate cable length.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North, USA
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