waste gate capsule. is it faulty?
Discussion
right
just been doing some work on my gt3, in the bloody rain!
boost would not go any highter that 0.7 bar approx
i suspect the wastegate capsule because it seems as if the spring has gone weak and is opening the waste gate too early. hense loss of boost.
so i put a small pair of clamp pliers on the pressure feed pipe that supplies the capsule, limmiting the pressure to the diaphram. this in my mind would give the effect of a stiffer spring.
am i right?
well anyway i tried it up the road and hey presto i have full boost.
from this i would assume the capsule is faulty.
or am i just getting round a problem?
would be interested 2 see what people think
p.s: one thing i did notice a few days ago when i had the capsule off that i could pull the bar out of the capsule quite easy, as if there wasnt much spring there. does this sound right?
cheers dave
just been doing some work on my gt3, in the bloody rain!
boost would not go any highter that 0.7 bar approx
i suspect the wastegate capsule because it seems as if the spring has gone weak and is opening the waste gate too early. hense loss of boost.
so i put a small pair of clamp pliers on the pressure feed pipe that supplies the capsule, limmiting the pressure to the diaphram. this in my mind would give the effect of a stiffer spring.
am i right?
well anyway i tried it up the road and hey presto i have full boost.
from this i would assume the capsule is faulty.
or am i just getting round a problem?
would be interested 2 see what people think
p.s: one thing i did notice a few days ago when i had the capsule off that i could pull the bar out of the capsule quite easy, as if there wasnt much spring there. does this sound right?
cheers dave
What is your intercooler temp?
If the chargecooler pump is not working the ECU will limit boost to .65. Does chargecooler box feel warm?
While on boost what does the knock sensor say on freescan?
Also any attempt to adjust the wastegate capsule and if the rod turns/rotates instead of the adjustment nut the diaphram attached to rod will tear.
Calvin
If the chargecooler pump is not working the ECU will limit boost to .65. Does chargecooler box feel warm?
While on boost what does the knock sensor say on freescan?
Also any attempt to adjust the wastegate capsule and if the rod turns/rotates instead of the adjustment nut the diaphram attached to rod will tear.
Calvin
reply from calvin
The chargecooler is probably fine because the box is cold.
Engine temp might be a problem if your thermostat has gone bad. The ECU will limit boost on a cool engine.
As far as the ECU in learning mode, it does limit boost while in this mode. I would say 40 miles is not enough for the ECU learn. Have to open it up and boost should increase around 100-150 miles.
When resetting the ECU I always let it fully warm up at idle, turn on the A/C for a bit, then go out for a robust drive engaging turbo boost throughout all gears. Full boost should return. I would not be concerned till you burned a tank of gas after ECU reset.
By pinching off the actuator hose you are probably overriding the safe mode. The ECU controls the wastegate.
Also try not to fiddle with the actuator rod as the diaphram is fragile. I have seen it ripped by rotating the rod instead of the adjustment nut. The rod has to be held stationary with a tool while rotating the nut only or you will be sorry you did that.
A simple test for the wastegate function is accomplished by using pressure pump or the bulb hand pump from the the seat bladders located underneath each seat. Does the GT3 have SE/S4 style seats?
Calvin
hi
yes it has a pump on the seats.
i made sure i didnt twist the actuator arm on the capsule but it has been into a garage that has been doing some work on it
dave
The chargecooler is probably fine because the box is cold.
Engine temp might be a problem if your thermostat has gone bad. The ECU will limit boost on a cool engine.
As far as the ECU in learning mode, it does limit boost while in this mode. I would say 40 miles is not enough for the ECU learn. Have to open it up and boost should increase around 100-150 miles.
When resetting the ECU I always let it fully warm up at idle, turn on the A/C for a bit, then go out for a robust drive engaging turbo boost throughout all gears. Full boost should return. I would not be concerned till you burned a tank of gas after ECU reset.
By pinching off the actuator hose you are probably overriding the safe mode. The ECU controls the wastegate.
Also try not to fiddle with the actuator rod as the diaphram is fragile. I have seen it ripped by rotating the rod instead of the adjustment nut. The rod has to be held stationary with a tool while rotating the nut only or you will be sorry you did that.
A simple test for the wastegate function is accomplished by using pressure pump or the bulb hand pump from the the seat bladders located underneath each seat. Does the GT3 have SE/S4 style seats?
Calvin
hi
yes it has a pump on the seats.
i made sure i didnt twist the actuator arm on the capsule but it has been into a garage that has been doing some work on it
dave
IAC replaced and set up correctly along with fuel filter.
Seems to have cleared my cold start problem and runs a lot smoother.
still got the stumble at very low revs but im not too bothered about that.
Just got to try and sort the low boost now.
suspecting the EPROM chip. Every reading ok and no leaks or blockages were ther shouldnt be.
might try a chip upgrade to prove a point.
im presuming if there is something limiting my boost to 0.85 it will still do the same with a higher boost chip.
if it runs up to 1.2 bar on a puk 11 chip then all is ok.
will keep posted
dave
Seems to have cleared my cold start problem and runs a lot smoother.
still got the stumble at very low revs but im not too bothered about that.
Just got to try and sort the low boost now.
suspecting the EPROM chip. Every reading ok and no leaks or blockages were ther shouldnt be.
might try a chip upgrade to prove a point.
im presuming if there is something limiting my boost to 0.85 it will still do the same with a higher boost chip.
if it runs up to 1.2 bar on a puk 11 chip then all is ok.
will keep posted
dave
Even though we are really talking vacuum.. is it just pressure below atmospheric... still pressure nonetheless......
presure is still pressure... putting pliers on the hose can not change the pressure ... if they pinch the hose completely, then there will be Zero pressure..
if they leave a small opening the pressure will be the same, just the flow will be less through the hose and there will be a delay of what ever the pressure is doing..
Your test is totally not conclusive nor technical.. it is meaningless in my opinion.
measusre presure with a a gauge, they are cheap. Regulate presure with a pressure regulator ...
if you want to check the waste gate visually apply vacuum and see how the thing moves..( engine off first..)
presure is still pressure... putting pliers on the hose can not change the pressure ... if they pinch the hose completely, then there will be Zero pressure..
if they leave a small opening the pressure will be the same, just the flow will be less through the hose and there will be a delay of what ever the pressure is doing..
Your test is totally not conclusive nor technical.. it is meaningless in my opinion.
measusre presure with a a gauge, they are cheap. Regulate presure with a pressure regulator ...
if you want to check the waste gate visually apply vacuum and see how the thing moves..( engine off first..)
thanks for your input but the last post i put doesnt really refer to your comments.
as only a lotus esprit novice and lover and not a technichan i can only use knowlege i have to fault find. test that have been done so far have proved points and helped me identify faulty components/areas.
dave
as only a lotus esprit novice and lover and not a technichan i can only use knowlege i have to fault find. test that have been done so far have proved points and helped me identify faulty components/areas.
dave
Dave,
I apologise if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but reading through your post I don't think you understand the fundamentals of how the car controls boost. I've always gone with the attitude that understanding how something works is 90% of the way to fixing it
What you're seeing with the 0.7 bar will be the rated boost pressure of the wastegate capsule. If the pressure outlet from the compressor was to be directly connected to the wastegate then at 0.7bar the wastegate would open and boost would stop building - which is what you are seeing.
Removing this hose or pinching it totally shut {or having a split diaphram} would result in no wastegate control at all which would mean that the boost would build as high as the turbo could produce, or the the ECU instigates fuel cut to reduce boost - whichever is lower. And as Bojangles says pinching it slightly will merely reduce flow not pressure, the only affect on this will be a lagin boost pressure seen at the wastegate capsule.
However, the compressor outlet and the wastegate capsule are not directly connected and the ECU has control over this.
I've been looking through the sevice notes trying to understand how the ECU controls boost on the 4 pots and it's not very clear, so I'll explain my understanding of how it's normally controlled on turbod vehicles and how it looks like it's controlled on a 4 pot Esprit - and you can work your way from there. Mayb someone will fill in the gaps
Generally speaking there will be a T in the boost hose that connects the compressor outlet to the wastegate capsule. This T then feeds off to a boost control solenoid {wastegate solenoid}. The boost control solenoid vents pressure away from the hose by being pulsed open and closed by the ECU many times a second. Thus if the turbo is producing 10psi of boost, the solenoid mayb opening and closing in such a way to vent of 4psi so that the wastegate is only seeing 6psi.
The amount it is opening and closing is known as the boost solenoid duty and will be based on the input from various sensors, throttle, rpm, MAP, etc and it's built in mappings to determine how rapidly this should be opening and closing to achieve the desired boost.
===============
Looking through the sevice notes for the 4 pot it is not very clear at all how the boost solenoid does it's job. It looks to me like it's connected completely inline between the compressor outlet and the wastegate capsule and works by opening and closing to allow the wastegate capsule to see boost or not.
This would imply that your problem is that this valve is permanently open. The trick is to understand why;
It mayb faulty, jammed etc - in which case take it off and clean it with brake cleaner or something.
It mayb that the ECU just isn't closing it for some reason, Freescan or similar should give you some sort of idea whether the ECU is attempting to do this or not.
There is a fuse that feeds it, though if this was blown I'd very much expect a CEL to be thrown, likewise if it had become disconnected.
You could also confirm that boost solenoid is actually the issue by connecting the compressor outlet directly to the wastegate capsule - you should see pretty much the same amount of boost being produced. Allowing for the fact that there are restrictors in the line between the solenoid, these wont reduce pressure but do reduce flow which will change how quickly the wastegate acts. However, if you find that having the wastegate directly connected results in an even lower boost then for sure the wastegate capsule is at fault.
Beware also that if you've managed to increase your boost to 0.85 bar by adjustting the actuator rod then this will also result in an increase in boost once you fix your problem - you may end up going over the fuel cut ceiling.
===================
I apologise if I've yawned you to death, but hopefully something in there will be of some use.
Col
I apologise if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but reading through your post I don't think you understand the fundamentals of how the car controls boost. I've always gone with the attitude that understanding how something works is 90% of the way to fixing it
What you're seeing with the 0.7 bar will be the rated boost pressure of the wastegate capsule. If the pressure outlet from the compressor was to be directly connected to the wastegate then at 0.7bar the wastegate would open and boost would stop building - which is what you are seeing.
Removing this hose or pinching it totally shut {or having a split diaphram} would result in no wastegate control at all which would mean that the boost would build as high as the turbo could produce, or the the ECU instigates fuel cut to reduce boost - whichever is lower. And as Bojangles says pinching it slightly will merely reduce flow not pressure, the only affect on this will be a lagin boost pressure seen at the wastegate capsule.
However, the compressor outlet and the wastegate capsule are not directly connected and the ECU has control over this.
I've been looking through the sevice notes trying to understand how the ECU controls boost on the 4 pots and it's not very clear, so I'll explain my understanding of how it's normally controlled on turbod vehicles and how it looks like it's controlled on a 4 pot Esprit - and you can work your way from there. Mayb someone will fill in the gaps
Generally speaking there will be a T in the boost hose that connects the compressor outlet to the wastegate capsule. This T then feeds off to a boost control solenoid {wastegate solenoid}. The boost control solenoid vents pressure away from the hose by being pulsed open and closed by the ECU many times a second. Thus if the turbo is producing 10psi of boost, the solenoid mayb opening and closing in such a way to vent of 4psi so that the wastegate is only seeing 6psi.
The amount it is opening and closing is known as the boost solenoid duty and will be based on the input from various sensors, throttle, rpm, MAP, etc and it's built in mappings to determine how rapidly this should be opening and closing to achieve the desired boost.
===============
Looking through the sevice notes for the 4 pot it is not very clear at all how the boost solenoid does it's job. It looks to me like it's connected completely inline between the compressor outlet and the wastegate capsule and works by opening and closing to allow the wastegate capsule to see boost or not.
This would imply that your problem is that this valve is permanently open. The trick is to understand why;
It mayb faulty, jammed etc - in which case take it off and clean it with brake cleaner or something.
It mayb that the ECU just isn't closing it for some reason, Freescan or similar should give you some sort of idea whether the ECU is attempting to do this or not.
There is a fuse that feeds it, though if this was blown I'd very much expect a CEL to be thrown, likewise if it had become disconnected.
You could also confirm that boost solenoid is actually the issue by connecting the compressor outlet directly to the wastegate capsule - you should see pretty much the same amount of boost being produced. Allowing for the fact that there are restrictors in the line between the solenoid, these wont reduce pressure but do reduce flow which will change how quickly the wastegate acts. However, if you find that having the wastegate directly connected results in an even lower boost then for sure the wastegate capsule is at fault.
Beware also that if you've managed to increase your boost to 0.85 bar by adjustting the actuator rod then this will also result in an increase in boost once you fix your problem - you may end up going over the fuel cut ceiling.
===================
I apologise if I've yawned you to death, but hopefully something in there will be of some use.
Col
hi
thanks for the post.
I didnt know at the time when i originally posted this topic how the turbo system works on these cars but now do.
this is what i am getting and what i understand:
0.65 bar with the wastegate solenoid disconnected (correct as far as im aware)
0.8 bar with the wastegate solenoid connected in closed loop mode with 75% or greater throttle (i can get 100%) and above 5000 rpm giving me WOT (wide open throttle)
I should be getting 1 bar at WOT. This is acheived by a 12v square wave form pulse fed to the wastegate solenoid. in effect opening and closing it to acheive the desired/correct boost. i.e: at the the moment 0.8 bar
I have confirmed there are no leaks from the wastegate solenoid by attaching up to 1.5 bar pressure to the solenoid and energising it (appling 12v). there are no leaks at all and is opening and closing as sweet as a nut with the supply connected and disconnected. so that rules that out.
There are also no leaks on the plumming from/to the turbo.
The actuator is brand new as the old actuator was only giving 0.45 MAX with it adjusted fully and the wastegate solenoid disconnected.
As i said i am now getting 0.65 bar with no wastegate solenoid connected which is correct.
There are no imperfections on the internal wastegate in the turbo and is closing 100% with no leaks.
THIS IS THE PART WERE PEOPLE THINK IM SLIGHTLY BONKERS I THINK. THE REASON FOR RESTRICTING THE PRESSURE TO THE ACTUATOR CAPSULE WITH THE WASTEGATE COMPLETELY CLOSED/SEALED OR DISCONNECTING THE HOSE FROM THE ACTUATOR WAS TO SEE IF THE TURBO WAS CAPABLE OF GIVING ME THE 1 BAR BOOST I SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET OR OVERBOOST. I PERSONLY DONT HAVE ANY OTHER WAY OF CHECKING TO SEE IF THE TURBO IS EITHER LOW PRESSURE/WORN OR HAS A FRACTURE IN THE CASING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
But anyway i can get over boost with the hose off therefore i know the turbo is ok.
This makes sense to me and rules another part out of the equation if it doesnt to anyone else.
So now i know the turbo, waste gate, actuator, plumming, and waste gate solenoid are ok im on to faulty sensors or reading being given wrong to the ECU.
BUT:
TPS 0.7V - 4.5V AND GIVES 100% AT WOT
MAT AT A CONSTANT 30 DEG C
NOT SHOWING IT IS RUNING LEAN
BARO OK
INTEGRATOR OK
MAP GETTING TO 2.1 BAR (CONFIRMING THE 0.8 BAR SHOWN BY THE BOOST GAUGE)
IAC SET CORRECTLY (STARTS 170 WHEN COLD AND 35-40 WHEN AT 82 DEG AND AT IDLE SPEED 1050 RPM)
NO KNOCK COUNTS
IGNITION NOT BEING RETARDED
Coolant temp at 82 deg c
As you can probably tell i have free scan. i cant remember all the values or sensors but i have checked them all over and over again and Dermot has also confirmed for me that all is show 100% on free scan.
Items replaced that either needed replacing or were faulty:
Spark plugs (NGK)
Magnecor ignition leads
Fuel filter
TPS sensor
IAC valve
Air filter K & N ( RAM induction mod)
Larini twin exit sports exhaust
Cat convertor definately not blocked (ok)
Actuator
Rubber elbow joints on fuel vacume pipes (cracked and leaking)
Oil catch tank
I know some of these would have no effect on the fault but there just there so people know what i have done.
There are also plenty of more bits (£3k worth) just cant bring them all to mind
Therefor my personal conclusion on all this would say that there is a problem with either the ECU, MEMCAL or the EPROM in the MEMCAL.
If i had to take a guess i would say the EPROM is corrupt.
I repair washing machines and telvevisions for a living so i know all to well how these items can fail.
This is what im thinking: Chip the MEMCAL to prove if there is a gremlin that i cant find still causing the ECU to limit the boost to 0.8 bar. If i get over 0.8 bar then i have prooved that the EPROM was faulty or just not programmed to give above 0.8 bar.
THE END
sorry for the essay guys and i do apreciate the help at all times. What ive said makes sense to me and this is how i think my setup is working, if im wrong im wrong but ive tried specialist lotus garages and they get no where too.
Ill wait for the thousand of replies lol
Dave
thanks for the post.
I didnt know at the time when i originally posted this topic how the turbo system works on these cars but now do.
this is what i am getting and what i understand:
0.65 bar with the wastegate solenoid disconnected (correct as far as im aware)
0.8 bar with the wastegate solenoid connected in closed loop mode with 75% or greater throttle (i can get 100%) and above 5000 rpm giving me WOT (wide open throttle)
I should be getting 1 bar at WOT. This is acheived by a 12v square wave form pulse fed to the wastegate solenoid. in effect opening and closing it to acheive the desired/correct boost. i.e: at the the moment 0.8 bar
I have confirmed there are no leaks from the wastegate solenoid by attaching up to 1.5 bar pressure to the solenoid and energising it (appling 12v). there are no leaks at all and is opening and closing as sweet as a nut with the supply connected and disconnected. so that rules that out.
There are also no leaks on the plumming from/to the turbo.
The actuator is brand new as the old actuator was only giving 0.45 MAX with it adjusted fully and the wastegate solenoid disconnected.
As i said i am now getting 0.65 bar with no wastegate solenoid connected which is correct.
There are no imperfections on the internal wastegate in the turbo and is closing 100% with no leaks.
THIS IS THE PART WERE PEOPLE THINK IM SLIGHTLY BONKERS I THINK. THE REASON FOR RESTRICTING THE PRESSURE TO THE ACTUATOR CAPSULE WITH THE WASTEGATE COMPLETELY CLOSED/SEALED OR DISCONNECTING THE HOSE FROM THE ACTUATOR WAS TO SEE IF THE TURBO WAS CAPABLE OF GIVING ME THE 1 BAR BOOST I SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET OR OVERBOOST. I PERSONLY DONT HAVE ANY OTHER WAY OF CHECKING TO SEE IF THE TURBO IS EITHER LOW PRESSURE/WORN OR HAS A FRACTURE IN THE CASING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
But anyway i can get over boost with the hose off therefore i know the turbo is ok.
This makes sense to me and rules another part out of the equation if it doesnt to anyone else.
So now i know the turbo, waste gate, actuator, plumming, and waste gate solenoid are ok im on to faulty sensors or reading being given wrong to the ECU.
BUT:
TPS 0.7V - 4.5V AND GIVES 100% AT WOT
MAT AT A CONSTANT 30 DEG C
NOT SHOWING IT IS RUNING LEAN
BARO OK
INTEGRATOR OK
MAP GETTING TO 2.1 BAR (CONFIRMING THE 0.8 BAR SHOWN BY THE BOOST GAUGE)
IAC SET CORRECTLY (STARTS 170 WHEN COLD AND 35-40 WHEN AT 82 DEG AND AT IDLE SPEED 1050 RPM)
NO KNOCK COUNTS
IGNITION NOT BEING RETARDED
Coolant temp at 82 deg c
As you can probably tell i have free scan. i cant remember all the values or sensors but i have checked them all over and over again and Dermot has also confirmed for me that all is show 100% on free scan.
Items replaced that either needed replacing or were faulty:
Spark plugs (NGK)
Magnecor ignition leads
Fuel filter
TPS sensor
IAC valve
Air filter K & N ( RAM induction mod)
Larini twin exit sports exhaust
Cat convertor definately not blocked (ok)
Actuator
Rubber elbow joints on fuel vacume pipes (cracked and leaking)
Oil catch tank
I know some of these would have no effect on the fault but there just there so people know what i have done.
There are also plenty of more bits (£3k worth) just cant bring them all to mind
Therefor my personal conclusion on all this would say that there is a problem with either the ECU, MEMCAL or the EPROM in the MEMCAL.
If i had to take a guess i would say the EPROM is corrupt.
I repair washing machines and telvevisions for a living so i know all to well how these items can fail.
This is what im thinking: Chip the MEMCAL to prove if there is a gremlin that i cant find still causing the ECU to limit the boost to 0.8 bar. If i get over 0.8 bar then i have prooved that the EPROM was faulty or just not programmed to give above 0.8 bar.
THE END
sorry for the essay guys and i do apreciate the help at all times. What ive said makes sense to me and this is how i think my setup is working, if im wrong im wrong but ive tried specialist lotus garages and they get no where too.
Ill wait for the thousand of replies lol
Dave
lol
I woz tempted to suggest you unplum the wastegate capsule, then drive it carefully to see what boost you can achieve that way, it's certainly one of the things I'd have tried - the trouble is I don't like to suggest to other people that they try that sort thing with equipment that isn't mine so to speak .....
==============
The trouble is, although doing that does show that the turbo etc are capable of producing the correct boost it doesn't rule out any of the items as being faulty.
The ECU will have preset maps for the duty of the boost solenoid based on the circumstances at that time. But these maps will not adjust themselves to accomadate something that is failing/failed.
For example if something is buggered in your turbo, eg the turbine or compressor wheels may have lost some chunks then boost build up is going to be slower and so the values for the boost solenoid duty are going to be effectively incorrect and so boost will be lower.
Likewise if your zorst is blocked someplace, there's a crack in your turbo {internally} etc.
==========
For me, though the ECU may be buggered I REALLY cannot for one second see it being an Eprom thing.
Looking at the manual I think it has a relay that controls the solenoid, mayb this is a little sluggish, try swapping it with another.
I woz tempted to suggest you unplum the wastegate capsule, then drive it carefully to see what boost you can achieve that way, it's certainly one of the things I'd have tried - the trouble is I don't like to suggest to other people that they try that sort thing with equipment that isn't mine so to speak .....
==============
The trouble is, although doing that does show that the turbo etc are capable of producing the correct boost it doesn't rule out any of the items as being faulty.
The ECU will have preset maps for the duty of the boost solenoid based on the circumstances at that time. But these maps will not adjust themselves to accomadate something that is failing/failed.
For example if something is buggered in your turbo, eg the turbine or compressor wheels may have lost some chunks then boost build up is going to be slower and so the values for the boost solenoid duty are going to be effectively incorrect and so boost will be lower.
Likewise if your zorst is blocked someplace, there's a crack in your turbo {internally} etc.
==========
For me, though the ECU may be buggered I REALLY cannot for one second see it being an Eprom thing.
Looking at the manual I think it has a relay that controls the solenoid, mayb this is a little sluggish, try swapping it with another.
hi
yer i know it wont tell me that the rest of the system is ok but it at least tells me the turbo its self is ok. it must be if it can over boost.
would have thought if it was the relay lazy the ECU would work the wastegate solenoid harder to try and produce the 1 bar and compensate for it, up to a point were if it had to, it would keep it closed more to give the correct boost. Or am i not making sense?
where is the relay situated by the way?
cheers
Dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Saturday 23 July 17:52
yer i know it wont tell me that the rest of the system is ok but it at least tells me the turbo its self is ok. it must be if it can over boost.
would have thought if it was the relay lazy the ECU would work the wastegate solenoid harder to try and produce the 1 bar and compensate for it, up to a point were if it had to, it would keep it closed more to give the correct boost. Or am i not making sense?
where is the relay situated by the way?
cheers
Dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Saturday 23 July 17:52
update!
is it possible that the boost could be limited if the ecu thought the clutch was slipping. think it is slipping slightly when in over boost but im not 100%
it seems the boost is getting lower after running it for 300 miles or so after an ecu reset. it is reaching 0.7 bar now at WOT but the 0.65 bar is is still there when the waste gate solenoid is disconnected. its as if its learning a boost curve for max 0.7 bar.
i can get 1.1 bar approx if i go into over boost (revved when stationary over 5000 rpm then pull off) only in first though
gone through the whole freescan thing and verything is reading 100% and no codes
actuator is new and set ok
any ideas?
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:43
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:45
is it possible that the boost could be limited if the ecu thought the clutch was slipping. think it is slipping slightly when in over boost but im not 100%
it seems the boost is getting lower after running it for 300 miles or so after an ecu reset. it is reaching 0.7 bar now at WOT but the 0.65 bar is is still there when the waste gate solenoid is disconnected. its as if its learning a boost curve for max 0.7 bar.
i can get 1.1 bar approx if i go into over boost (revved when stationary over 5000 rpm then pull off) only in first though
gone through the whole freescan thing and verything is reading 100% and no codes
actuator is new and set ok
any ideas?
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:43
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:45
DAVES_GT3 said:
update!
is it possible that the boost could be limited if the ecu thought the clutch was slipping. think it is slipping slightly when in over boost but im not 100%
it seems the boost is getting lower after running it for 300 miles or so after an ecu reset. it is reaching 0.7 bar now at WOT but the 0.65 bar is is still there when the waste gate solenoid is disconnected. its as if its learning a boost curve for max 0.7 bar.
i can get 1.1 bar approx if i go into over boost (revved when stationary over 5000 rpm then pull off) only in first though
gone through the whole freescan thing and verything is reading 100% and no codes
actuator is new and set ok
any ideas?
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:43
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Wednesday 3rd August 21:45
ECU does not know or care about a worn clutch.
I think you are on to something with the ECU control of the wastegate capsule. It sounds like it is opening it for no reason. Since you show no ignition retardation... If the ignition were being retarded then you wouldn't be able to build the boost. But you also disproved that when you took away the wastegate control and got overboost.
Try swapping with another GT3 ECU. Then try swapping just the Memcals.
You did make sure you have no leaks in the manifold right? Including the one way valves from the crancase breather and the charcoal cannister?
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
thanks for your reply.
now you seem to be making sense and on my wave length.
no leaks in any of the mentioned areas
i personlly think im down to faulty ecu, memcal, or eprom in the memcal.
BUT
in the memcal there is the ESC (electronic spark control) right?
well the spark control is showing fine so that rules that out.
there is also the electronics for the knock count and the ecu is only reading 1 knock which is pretty damn good if you ask me. and there fore not retarding the ignition.
so thats ok
im sure im correct when im saying the EPROM in the memcal provides the ecu with the correct info to send to the wastegate solenoid etc:
therefore i am now thinking eprom or ECU
id find it hard to believe if it was the ECU giving this fault and this is the reason for going for a chip upgrade.
this to me makes sense and rules out another item?
yes?
let me know
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Thursday 4th August 01:06
now you seem to be making sense and on my wave length.
no leaks in any of the mentioned areas
i personlly think im down to faulty ecu, memcal, or eprom in the memcal.
BUT
in the memcal there is the ESC (electronic spark control) right?
well the spark control is showing fine so that rules that out.
there is also the electronics for the knock count and the ecu is only reading 1 knock which is pretty damn good if you ask me. and there fore not retarding the ignition.
so thats ok
im sure im correct when im saying the EPROM in the memcal provides the ecu with the correct info to send to the wastegate solenoid etc:
therefore i am now thinking eprom or ECU
id find it hard to believe if it was the ECU giving this fault and this is the reason for going for a chip upgrade.
this to me makes sense and rules out another item?
yes?
let me know
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Thursday 4th August 01:06
definately 100% all values are correct as showing on freescan
ill be buggered if i can think of anything else it can be. ive even had dermot on the case.
[U]heres what ive got[/U]
TPS VOLTAGE 0.7 AT IDLE AND 4.5 AT WOT
TPS 0 - 100%
AVERAGE 1050 RPM WHEN IDLING WARM
O2 SENSOR FLUCTUATIN AS IT SHOULD (BRAND NEW)
RICH/LEAN COUNTING 0-256
INTEGRATOR 128
BLM FLUCTUATES 97 - 128
BLM CELL 19
IAC WHEN WARM 30
BARO 0.83 - 0.84
AIR FUEL RATIO 10.9 - 14.6
MAP 2.1 MAX SHOWING THE LOW BOOST ( 2.24 WHEN IN OVER BOOST)
MAT V 3.1 - 3.9
KNOCK RETARD CONSTANT 0
KNOCK KOUNT VERY OCCASIONALLY 1 (BELIEVE THIS TO BE VERY HEALTHY)
BAT VOLTAGE 12 - 14
ENGINE LOAD 5 - 100
SPARK 0 - 74.9
COOLANT TEMP AVERAGE - 82 DEG C
MAT - AVERAGE 29
WASTEGAE DC - 0 - 100
SECONDARY INJECTOR DC - 0 - 9
ACTUATOR SET AT 0.65 BAR WITH THE WASTEGATE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED ( BRAND NEW ACTUATOR)
FREESCAN SHOWS 2.24 ON MAP WHEN IN OVER BOOST WHICH IS 1.1 BAR OF BOOST SO THE WASTEGATE SOLENOID AND TURBO ARE MECHANICALLY OK.
NO RESTRICTED AIR INLET, EXHAUST, OR VACUME HOSES
NEED I SAY ANY MORE?
suggestions would be welcome as this problem is doin my nutt in
Dave
DAVES_GT3 said:
thanks for your reply.
now you seem to be making sense and on my wave length.
no leaks in any of the mentioned areas
i personlly think im down to faulty ecu, memcal, or eprom in the memcal.
BUT
in the memcal there is the ESC (electronic spark control) right?
well the spark control is showing fine so that rules that out.
there is also the electronics for the knock count and the ecu is only reading 1 knock which is pretty damn good if you ask me. and there fore not retarding the ignition.
so thats ok
im sure im correct when im saying the EPROM in the memcal provides the ecu with the correct info to send to the wastegate solenoid etc:
therefore i am now thinking eprom or ECU
id find it hard to believe if it was the ECU giving this fault and this is the reason for going for a chip upgrade.
this to me makes sense and rules out another item?
yes?
let me know
dave
>> Edited by DAVES_GT3 on Thursday 4th August 01:06
I think your reasoning is correct, though it does leave the possibility of faulty wiring as well (I think). Could a short in the wastegate control wire be causing it to open and reduce boost at the wastegate? Just a guess.
Travis
Thanks for the reply
Unsure about the faulty wiring but i will check it.
i presume i will trace it back to the ecu.
someone did say to me it was driven off a relay but i wouldnt see the purpose in having one because the signal the ecu sends out is a 12v square waveform. i.e: on and off, with the time base adjusted via the ecu depending on how often it requires the wastegate to be open (opening and closing the wastegate quicker or slower for longer or shorter periods)
was unsure how to explain that one so it may not make any sense.
thanks
dave
Unsure about the faulty wiring but i will check it.
i presume i will trace it back to the ecu.
someone did say to me it was driven off a relay but i wouldnt see the purpose in having one because the signal the ecu sends out is a 12v square waveform. i.e: on and off, with the time base adjusted via the ecu depending on how often it requires the wastegate to be open (opening and closing the wastegate quicker or slower for longer or shorter periods)
was unsure how to explain that one so it may not make any sense.
thanks
dave
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