Aussie S4 sad story...
Discussion
hi all,
i have a sad story about my first car accident ever in my life (15 years of clean driving!) and just wanted to know if anyone else has had problems with their ABS... The other day i was driving to work in peak hour traffic, when my brakes cut out.... the brake peddle felt strong and ok, but the car didn't brake at all, just kept rolling and i ended up going into the car (a Merc) in front... fortunately i was only going about 35-40kms per hour as it was gridlock, but had i been on the freeway..... (i don't even want to think about that!)
the abs light was going crazy and flashing after the accident... the brakes themselves were fine after the accident, however, after discussion and inspection with the mechanics at the workshop, they are certain that the abs must have been faulty....apparently it is considered, not a regular problem, but something that is fairly common... they said they will know for sure after the car is repaired and all of the computers are reset and everything tested and diagnosed via all of their codes and stuff.....
anyone else have this abs/braking problem? my car is a 94 S4... they estimate that the car is going to be in the panel shop for about 4-6 weeks!
also, i was considering taking the abs out altogether, has anyone else done that?
i will post some photos of the damage asap....
rgds,
anthony
i have a sad story about my first car accident ever in my life (15 years of clean driving!) and just wanted to know if anyone else has had problems with their ABS... The other day i was driving to work in peak hour traffic, when my brakes cut out.... the brake peddle felt strong and ok, but the car didn't brake at all, just kept rolling and i ended up going into the car (a Merc) in front... fortunately i was only going about 35-40kms per hour as it was gridlock, but had i been on the freeway..... (i don't even want to think about that!)
the abs light was going crazy and flashing after the accident... the brakes themselves were fine after the accident, however, after discussion and inspection with the mechanics at the workshop, they are certain that the abs must have been faulty....apparently it is considered, not a regular problem, but something that is fairly common... they said they will know for sure after the car is repaired and all of the computers are reset and everything tested and diagnosed via all of their codes and stuff.....
anyone else have this abs/braking problem? my car is a 94 S4... they estimate that the car is going to be in the panel shop for about 4-6 weeks!
also, i was considering taking the abs out altogether, has anyone else done that?
i will post some photos of the damage asap....
rgds,
anthony
Anthony,
Sorry to hear about the accident. I had an accident in my 1990 esprit 2 weeks ago. Where in Aussie are you ??. I am in Melbourne.
I also have front damage, would you beleive had an altercation with an unmarked police car, fortunately they were in the wrong. My panel shop says about the same time to fix.
Bit worrying about the ABS, we need brakes, too expensive to fix !!!
Regards
Jason
Sorry to hear about the accident. I had an accident in my 1990 esprit 2 weeks ago. Where in Aussie are you ??. I am in Melbourne.
I also have front damage, would you beleive had an altercation with an unmarked police car, fortunately they were in the wrong. My panel shop says about the same time to fix.
Bit worrying about the ABS, we need brakes, too expensive to fix !!!
Regards
Jason
quote:
Do not get ride of the ABS!!!!!!!
It is their to protect you.
This sound like you were having problems somwhere else.
ABS.. Absolutely Bl**dy Stupid *LOL*... umm a necessity for those that can't drive.. Just kidding. In reallity- drive 4 the conditions and you never need ABS..
thanks for all the kind thoughts guys... guess i'll just have to wait for my car to get fixed...
jason: i'm in sydney (north shore)
lotus s4s: you haven't had the same problem have you?
guy johnson: thanks for the advice mate, i have always been a big believer of abs (though have never, touch wood, engaged an abs sytem ever with any cars i have owned (toyotas, mercs, bmws, lotus) or other cars i have driven in my 15 yrs of driving), i have always thought of abs as an absolute must on cars... i have taken 2 levels of the ian luff "dynamic safety/ advanced driving" courses and consider myself a very conservative/defensive driver (a gold license with no speeding tix, no accidents, nothing at all in all my 15 yrs of driving)... my cars are my babies...
apologies, i'm not mentioning all of this to brag or anything, i'm just considering if the risk of a problem with the abs (that i never considered existed) is worth the potential benefit weighing against those factors above...
I still find it hard to imagine ever driving a car without the safety net of abs, but this recent experience/accident abs problem has made me have a think about it... the mechanics and panel beaters that were looking at my car said that the last 2 cars (merc and a holden)that they had in for accidents prior to mine were due to abs failure/problems, ie. the abs cut the car's brakes as well, causing the cars to crash into the cars in front....
definately possible that they were just driving too fast, but the 3 cars (including mine) all had faulty abs systems (computers or sensors) after the crash when checked out, and brake cylinder's and cables were all fine, ie. the brakes themselves were working fine after the accidents, it was only the abs that was not working..... can we prove that they were faulty before the crash? of course not, however, the symptoms we all had(ie. the brakes didn't work when pressed, but then worked fine after we crashed into something!) was the same in all cases...
i guess what i have realised is that abs is still another system that is not perfect and can fail and if it does, it could result in your brakes not being activated... same effect as a brake cylinder bursting or a brake cable getting cut i guess...
conclusion: would i take out my abs right now? at the moment, i'm still a defensive driving control freak, so probably not... but i am still at least considering it as there was nothing quite as frightening as feeling my brakes fail!!! (even at only 40km/h!)
syneyse summed it up pretty well: drive 4 the conditions and you will never need abs...
i have always tried to drive cautiously and be aware so that i should hopefully continue to NEVER need my abs and keep preventing accidents wherever possible...
anyway, safe driving to all!
regards,
anthony
jason: i'm in sydney (north shore)
lotus s4s: you haven't had the same problem have you?
guy johnson: thanks for the advice mate, i have always been a big believer of abs (though have never, touch wood, engaged an abs sytem ever with any cars i have owned (toyotas, mercs, bmws, lotus) or other cars i have driven in my 15 yrs of driving), i have always thought of abs as an absolute must on cars... i have taken 2 levels of the ian luff "dynamic safety/ advanced driving" courses and consider myself a very conservative/defensive driver (a gold license with no speeding tix, no accidents, nothing at all in all my 15 yrs of driving)... my cars are my babies...
apologies, i'm not mentioning all of this to brag or anything, i'm just considering if the risk of a problem with the abs (that i never considered existed) is worth the potential benefit weighing against those factors above...
I still find it hard to imagine ever driving a car without the safety net of abs, but this recent experience/accident abs problem has made me have a think about it... the mechanics and panel beaters that were looking at my car said that the last 2 cars (merc and a holden)that they had in for accidents prior to mine were due to abs failure/problems, ie. the abs cut the car's brakes as well, causing the cars to crash into the cars in front....
definately possible that they were just driving too fast, but the 3 cars (including mine) all had faulty abs systems (computers or sensors) after the crash when checked out, and brake cylinder's and cables were all fine, ie. the brakes themselves were working fine after the accidents, it was only the abs that was not working..... can we prove that they were faulty before the crash? of course not, however, the symptoms we all had(ie. the brakes didn't work when pressed, but then worked fine after we crashed into something!) was the same in all cases...
i guess what i have realised is that abs is still another system that is not perfect and can fail and if it does, it could result in your brakes not being activated... same effect as a brake cylinder bursting or a brake cable getting cut i guess...
conclusion: would i take out my abs right now? at the moment, i'm still a defensive driving control freak, so probably not... but i am still at least considering it as there was nothing quite as frightening as feeling my brakes fail!!! (even at only 40km/h!)
syneyse summed it up pretty well: drive 4 the conditions and you will never need abs...
i have always tried to drive cautiously and be aware so that i should hopefully continue to NEVER need my abs and keep preventing accidents wherever possible...
anyway, safe driving to all!
regards,
anthony
Jason,
I had a great weekend. I used to post a lot on the Turbo Esprit list and got to meet a lot of the genuine car people from the list. The list has grown so (1100+) much that lately there has been some strange posting, unusal advice like proclaiming advice as gospel and come to find out they have an MR-2 and void of actual experience with the proceedure or never even seen it done, and weird people showing up on the list under multiple names inciting near riots with inflamatory remarks. Except for the old people who I recognize their screen names I don't really read a lot of stuff from new people anymore. I like this place it is more 4 cyl. oriented and we work on our own cars more than the V8 guys. It is like what the turbo Esprit list used to be like. I only know of a few V8 guys that do their own work and theones that do are at the extreme of the scale. Excuse the rambling, getting back to the weekend. The LOG was great to see the 100-150 (est.) cars there. The Esprit V8 Police car was there and the Local cops were all having their pitures taken by it, a few officers had suggested that the little village where we had our event buy a few them for their use. My car took 3rd place in the 88-96 Esprit class in the informal concours show. Means a lot more to me than a 1st at a combined marquee auto show as the cars are looked at and balloted by other Lotus owners who know what to look for. There were a few pictures of my car on my web page from Track day and it brought back some racing memories of days long past when I used to drive for for one of the Nissan Dealer teams regularly. Just to have use of the full width of the road in the turns on nice long track was great and to be on the course with other competent drivers that I trust to watch for each other made me feel very safe on the track. A great experience A group of us hung out together and spoke the same language (car talk). Sanj, Pfeffer, Keen, Tim, Rick, Jim, Metz, Atwell. some people even made references to us as the Borg collective on Lotus issues. The V8 people had their own groups too Johan, Gordonie, Marsala, etc. Grat weekend and a must. I wonder what that sleepy little village thought of hundred + cars showing up in town. I know the kids were enthusiatic seeing cars they only had seen as toys and models. Do you people down under have a national gathering? Graham is someone I e-mailed a lot when doing reasearch in the early owner days. He hs a fantatic set of repair books for the 88-92 MY with many subjects still current for the later models. He gave me a set of books for the cost of shipping for which I will always be in his debt. It's just the way Lotus people are and he probably thought I would put the books to good use.
Regards,
Calvin
Oh on the subject of ABS. Never used it in performance car or on the track. The daily driver have them and during the harsh winter here with the glare and black ice I engage them sometimes everytime I press the brake pedal. It works for regular driving when I am very lazy in traffic. But I used to drive in ice conditions with non ABS, just had to modulate the pedal manually and work at steering without over correcting. I never drive the Esprit in winter in those condition.
I had a great weekend. I used to post a lot on the Turbo Esprit list and got to meet a lot of the genuine car people from the list. The list has grown so (1100+) much that lately there has been some strange posting, unusal advice like proclaiming advice as gospel and come to find out they have an MR-2 and void of actual experience with the proceedure or never even seen it done, and weird people showing up on the list under multiple names inciting near riots with inflamatory remarks. Except for the old people who I recognize their screen names I don't really read a lot of stuff from new people anymore. I like this place it is more 4 cyl. oriented and we work on our own cars more than the V8 guys. It is like what the turbo Esprit list used to be like. I only know of a few V8 guys that do their own work and theones that do are at the extreme of the scale. Excuse the rambling, getting back to the weekend. The LOG was great to see the 100-150 (est.) cars there. The Esprit V8 Police car was there and the Local cops were all having their pitures taken by it, a few officers had suggested that the little village where we had our event buy a few them for their use. My car took 3rd place in the 88-96 Esprit class in the informal concours show. Means a lot more to me than a 1st at a combined marquee auto show as the cars are looked at and balloted by other Lotus owners who know what to look for. There were a few pictures of my car on my web page from Track day and it brought back some racing memories of days long past when I used to drive for for one of the Nissan Dealer teams regularly. Just to have use of the full width of the road in the turns on nice long track was great and to be on the course with other competent drivers that I trust to watch for each other made me feel very safe on the track. A great experience A group of us hung out together and spoke the same language (car talk). Sanj, Pfeffer, Keen, Tim, Rick, Jim, Metz, Atwell. some people even made references to us as the Borg collective on Lotus issues. The V8 people had their own groups too Johan, Gordonie, Marsala, etc. Grat weekend and a must. I wonder what that sleepy little village thought of hundred + cars showing up in town. I know the kids were enthusiatic seeing cars they only had seen as toys and models. Do you people down under have a national gathering? Graham is someone I e-mailed a lot when doing reasearch in the early owner days. He hs a fantatic set of repair books for the 88-92 MY with many subjects still current for the later models. He gave me a set of books for the cost of shipping for which I will always be in his debt. It's just the way Lotus people are and he probably thought I would put the books to good use.
Regards,
Calvin
Oh on the subject of ABS. Never used it in performance car or on the track. The daily driver have them and during the harsh winter here with the glare and black ice I engage them sometimes everytime I press the brake pedal. It works for regular driving when I am very lazy in traffic. But I used to drive in ice conditions with non ABS, just had to modulate the pedal manually and work at steering without over correcting. I never drive the Esprit in winter in those condition.
Calvin,
I have looked in some of the magazines and I have not found much of a Lotus club here. There are a few coffee shops/Lotus dealers that may have something but I have just been enjoying driving the car. I do have a few contacts now but as the car is getting fixed and work has been a bit hectic I have not followed up but I will be. I must call Graham as I will be looking for some manuals. I love working on cars and was for a while looking to get a GT40 or Lambo kit car, then I decided for the Lotus for less money which has all the looks and finish you could ask for, and still gives me something I can work on (not too much I hope, just something to care for).
It would be great to get together with other owners, I think I will learn lots. Its interesting what you say about the advice, I found the Espritfactfile a necessity before buying the car. I must admit though, I saw the car on the hoist the other day. Couple of oil leaks, cracks in the frame etc that I would have preferred to have seen before now. There is one oil leak near the back brakes, it looks likes it has a drain tube to take oil away from the brakes but its in a shocking position so will need to get that fixed.
Catch you later.
Cheers
Jason
I have looked in some of the magazines and I have not found much of a Lotus club here. There are a few coffee shops/Lotus dealers that may have something but I have just been enjoying driving the car. I do have a few contacts now but as the car is getting fixed and work has been a bit hectic I have not followed up but I will be. I must call Graham as I will be looking for some manuals. I love working on cars and was for a while looking to get a GT40 or Lambo kit car, then I decided for the Lotus for less money which has all the looks and finish you could ask for, and still gives me something I can work on (not too much I hope, just something to care for).
It would be great to get together with other owners, I think I will learn lots. Its interesting what you say about the advice, I found the Espritfactfile a necessity before buying the car. I must admit though, I saw the car on the hoist the other day. Couple of oil leaks, cracks in the frame etc that I would have preferred to have seen before now. There is one oil leak near the back brakes, it looks likes it has a drain tube to take oil away from the brakes but its in a shocking position so will need to get that fixed.
Catch you later.
Cheers
Jason
quote:
Anthony,
How is the repair going. My shop is having trouble getting parts for my 1990. I have asked them if an updated front bumper etc could be obtained and if it will fit. A S4s would be good. Are you having any luck with delivery.
Jason
hi jason,
well, it's going along.... kinda slow though, spoke with the panel beater yesterday, he has estimated labour (only labour) at $6,000!! and is awaiting parts prices from rick damelian... they think they will have the assessor in tomorrow (thursday), get the ok, start stripping her down on friday and be ready to commence work on monday... though no word yet on the actual availability of the parts reqiured... what they have said so far:
- new front bumer
- front indicator lights
- pressure test all radiators (chargecooler, air con, radiator, oil coollers)
- possibly take off the whole front boot bit (basically the whole nose) due to some hairline cracks in the front boot that they noticed and are not sure about...
- possible more when they take the front bumper off and have a look...
there is still more to come as they haven't finished and produced a quote yet... that $6,000 for labour alone is only an estimate not the actual quote...
i ordered some window stickers from sj sportscars in the UK, u name it, they can get it! it is kind of expensive to send stuff from the UK, but like i said, if u want it, they have it!
so how's your car? what actually happened? what sorta damage are we talking here?
rgds,
ant
Captian Muppet,
You misunderstood. I was taking about the 1200 member Turbo Esprit List. Please read the whole message the next line after your quote clip states "I like this place". The Yahoo Turbo list of the old days are gone. With many posting from uncomfirmed people and people with mutiple screen names. This one posting regarding the MR-2 owner related to BOV's claiming we all need the recirulating type and gave instructions on installations. Well our cars have a MAP sensor and can vent to atmosphere, a much easier install even for the rookie. I don't care if you are an Engineer, gas station attendant, or owner. If you give advice and opinions as gospel that affects or cars you had better be correct. Snobby has nothing to do with it. So let this be the end of your thoughts of me as being snobby. On the Turbo Esprit list with sometimes with 50+ posts I will continue to pick and choose who I read. It all comes down to credibility.
Calvin 90 SE
You misunderstood. I was taking about the 1200 member Turbo Esprit List. Please read the whole message the next line after your quote clip states "I like this place". The Yahoo Turbo list of the old days are gone. With many posting from uncomfirmed people and people with mutiple screen names. This one posting regarding the MR-2 owner related to BOV's claiming we all need the recirulating type and gave instructions on installations. Well our cars have a MAP sensor and can vent to atmosphere, a much easier install even for the rookie. I don't care if you are an Engineer, gas station attendant, or owner. If you give advice and opinions as gospel that affects or cars you had better be correct. Snobby has nothing to do with it. So let this be the end of your thoughts of me as being snobby. On the Turbo Esprit list with sometimes with 50+ posts I will continue to pick and choose who I read. It all comes down to credibility.
Calvin 90 SE
Anthony,
Sounds like we both have similar damage. I need new bumber/spoiler, my RHS light POD has some damage at the hinge area (basically the bolt hinge broke the fibreglass), radiator cowling needs to be replaced, rads look O.K. but need to be checked, rads fans should be O.K. but are hard up against the radiator.
My repairer says about $11K but need to do some more work on parts so could come to $20K, I bet yours will be around the same. It funny really because you cant notice much from 10 metres away (I know that reads funny but with a Commodore etc the front crumples and it stands out like dogs balls but the Esprit doesnt).
My accident happened when an unmarked police car cut accross in front of me at a traffic light (you know, if you have lanes of built up traffic in front of you and you want to turn right you cant see traffic in the far lane), I was travelling in left hand lane and had no where to go but into their side.
Its been a bloody painful exercise, there's something funny about being in an accident when you own an exotic. You are presumed guilty, especially when a few coppers get out of the other car. Fortunately I had the green light and they were in the wrong, but it doesnt help when I wont have my car for 2 months - which we will both find they will be out of action for as my repairer doesnt want to paint the car until the fibreglass has cured with can take a few weeks.
Calvin answered my email about body skirt upgrade, I need to look into what the effect would be if I did a partial update. It would need to be cheaper and even then I dont think the assessor would let it go as they would be worried about any errors or problems that could occur but I will see.
Regards
Jason
Sounds like we both have similar damage. I need new bumber/spoiler, my RHS light POD has some damage at the hinge area (basically the bolt hinge broke the fibreglass), radiator cowling needs to be replaced, rads look O.K. but need to be checked, rads fans should be O.K. but are hard up against the radiator.
My repairer says about $11K but need to do some more work on parts so could come to $20K, I bet yours will be around the same. It funny really because you cant notice much from 10 metres away (I know that reads funny but with a Commodore etc the front crumples and it stands out like dogs balls but the Esprit doesnt).
My accident happened when an unmarked police car cut accross in front of me at a traffic light (you know, if you have lanes of built up traffic in front of you and you want to turn right you cant see traffic in the far lane), I was travelling in left hand lane and had no where to go but into their side.
Its been a bloody painful exercise, there's something funny about being in an accident when you own an exotic. You are presumed guilty, especially when a few coppers get out of the other car. Fortunately I had the green light and they were in the wrong, but it doesnt help when I wont have my car for 2 months - which we will both find they will be out of action for as my repairer doesnt want to paint the car until the fibreglass has cured with can take a few weeks.
Calvin answered my email about body skirt upgrade, I need to look into what the effect would be if I did a partial update. It would need to be cheaper and even then I dont think the assessor would let it go as they would be worried about any errors or problems that could occur but I will see.
Regards
Jason
I also meant to say that if your nose clip needs to be replaced then thats a huge job aparently. Calvin/others should be able to confirm this. My repairer said the car would always feel different and they basically take the whole front off the car. A few of the repairers I talked too and had done nose clips said they would only do the car if it didnt need to be done because its just such a huge job. Dashboard/ everything needs to be pulled off.
Jas
Jas
Does anyone have pictures they could e-mail me how bad the front looks like? A front clip is a huge job and the damage would have to be quite extensive. The car would feel okay as the front just hangs on the frame as long as the torsional stiffness was not altered (weakened) especially in the A pillar area. The clip is taken in front of the A pilars in most cases anyways at the rear of the front wheel arch or mid section of the wheel arch. The pilars should not have sustained any damage or there is big trouble. A full frontal clip involving the A pillar is serious business. Oh just because one orders a full clip one does not have to use the whole clip. Has the body shop measured the frame measurement points to make sure the frame is dimesionally correct and square? If not Graham has the measure points and the correct proceedure to check it. If the frame is bent most insurance companies will write off the car as Lotus recommends replacement. Only Keen Young near legend of Turbo Esprit list has ever attempted to repaired a frame after it was bent. In most case when the pushed in GRP pieces are removed the ripped parts of the GRP kind of flop back into place. They can be re-glassed together if done correctly. In the USA we take cars to the places that specializes in Corvettes as many of them are involved in shunts. As a club we do our own repairs. Dan Curry is better at GRP repair than Keen, Keen is better at metal repair they compliment each other. Dan is a near lengend but prefers to keep his exploits quiet. He has sneaked in to a car dealers lot with his cohorts as look outs in the early dawn hours of some Sunday and made molds on the spot of the body pieces in some sort quick cast and plastic wrap to protect the donor cars finish to repair this red 90 SE. That is a hilarous Lotus story that is circulated at gatherings and one not easily topped.
www.chrislee.tv/lotus/lotus_pics.html
Calvin
www.chrislee.tv/lotus/lotus_pics.html
Calvin
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