V8 intercooler --- missing!!
Discussion
I am new to the V8 Esprit. Can someone tell me the reason why Lotus did not fit an intercooler? Is it because of the space or doesn't need to?
In longevity, I think Intercooler will play a very important role. I think the engine will last longer. In this kind of age, I could not see any reason why intercooler were deleted to the design. A hi-price exotic like Lotus should have intercooler.
>> Edited by BusaNostra on Monday 16th May 20:12
In longevity, I think Intercooler will play a very important role. I think the engine will last longer. In this kind of age, I could not see any reason why intercooler were deleted to the design. A hi-price exotic like Lotus should have intercooler.
>> Edited by BusaNostra on Monday 16th May 20:12
Dr. Hess,
Years ago, the first person I saw fitted the 83 Esprit is by the name of Charlie Seabrook (NJ. USA).
I took his idea and perhaps I am the 2nd person at that time. I could remember everyone saying what you said "tranny will not hold" & also no place to put it on.
I still owned the 84 Esprit, boosted 12psi since, never had any major engine problem. I do believed intercooler helps extent my engine/tranny longevity.
Yes! dense air will produce more horsepower but installing intercooler also lost some of the pressure and add a few lag. Preventing me to lanch and abuse the tranny at dead stop.
Years ago, the first person I saw fitted the 83 Esprit is by the name of Charlie Seabrook (NJ. USA).
I took his idea and perhaps I am the 2nd person at that time. I could remember everyone saying what you said "tranny will not hold" & also no place to put it on.
I still owned the 84 Esprit, boosted 12psi since, never had any major engine problem. I do believed intercooler helps extent my engine/tranny longevity.
Yes! dense air will produce more horsepower but installing intercooler also lost some of the pressure and add a few lag. Preventing me to lanch and abuse the tranny at dead stop.
BusaNostra said:
Dr. Hess,
Years ago, the first person I saw fitted the 83 Esprit is by the name of Charlie Seabrook (NJ. USA).
I took his idea and perhaps I am the 2nd person at that time. I could remember everyone saying what you said "tranny will not hold" & also no place to put it on.
I still owned the 84 Esprit, boosted 12psi since, never had any major engine problem. I do believed intercooler helps extent my engine/tranny longevity.
Yes! dense air will produce more horsepower but installing intercooler also lost some of the pressure and add a few lag. Preventing me to lanch and abuse the tranny at dead stop.
I would think that boosting a 4 cyl 12psi to near 300 hp is a little different than boosting a 350hp V8 to 450? Maybe 500hp? gears and syncros would turn into little round wheels unless driven very carefully. I think even the race Esprit's had tranny/clutch problems with boosted HP. Most of us are not like Johan who has rebuilt is transmission many times and very adept at it. He probably can do this repair faster than anyone I know because he has so much practice at it. I think he might even have a spare box or two lying around as a back up for just such an ocassion.
I suppose it really depends on how hard you drive it. They say (I am not a V8 expert) that one should not apply full throtle in 5th gear as it is. And of course, broke half shafts appear to be somewhat common as well with the chips.
If it were me, before I put a charge cooler on a V8, I would put one of those upgraded transmission kits in with the new shafts, etc. Then you should be able to handle considerably more power.
Note my disclaimer:
I am not a V8 expert, but I have read what people have been saying about them for the past 2-3 years now, and observations of people complaining of blown transmissions, half shafts, etc. Some factory "chips" limit boost in 1st and 5th gears.
Dr.Hess
If it were me, before I put a charge cooler on a V8, I would put one of those upgraded transmission kits in with the new shafts, etc. Then you should be able to handle considerably more power.
Note my disclaimer:
I am not a V8 expert, but I have read what people have been saying about them for the past 2-3 years now, and observations of people complaining of blown transmissions, half shafts, etc. Some factory "chips" limit boost in 1st and 5th gears.
Dr.Hess
Well,
Michael Fridman of Michael's Motorsports (www.michaelsmotorsports.com/) just installed a pair of Claudius' (www.lotuspbc.com/) intercoolers as well as Quaiffe on my '01 Esprit. I asked about the gearbox upgrade and he wasn't too concerned. Many here think very highly of Michael and his work (as do I), so perhaps it is worth asking him for his thoughts on the added risk to the gearbox.
Stay well,
Paul
Michael Fridman of Michael's Motorsports (www.michaelsmotorsports.com/) just installed a pair of Claudius' (www.lotuspbc.com/) intercoolers as well as Quaiffe on my '01 Esprit. I asked about the gearbox upgrade and he wasn't too concerned. Many here think very highly of Michael and his work (as do I), so perhaps it is worth asking him for his thoughts on the added risk to the gearbox.
Stay well,
Paul
Do you think Lotus knew all along the V8 tranny will not handle the V8 engine with more than 350hp?
I don't think so!
I think Lotus fault by not considering the real world... different ways/habits of driving!!
There are 2 to tangle.
I don't think they knew all along that the tranny is a piece of porcelain.
I don't think so!
I think Lotus fault by not considering the real world... different ways/habits of driving!!
There are 2 to tangle.
I don't think they knew all along that the tranny is a piece of porcelain.
The V8 engine also doesn't have forged pistons, sodium filled valves, or bronze-silicon valve guides. They obviously didn't think it should run more boost than they intended. Those are all standard on the turbo Esprit 4cylinder cars.
Of course they knew that the transmission couldn't handle more than 350hp, that's exactly why they limited boost in the lower gears through the ECU programming.
The "half shaft issue" is actually by design. It's better to replace a broken half shaft than any gear of the tranny.
You generally don't need intercooling when you are only running 7psi of boost. So that would have been extra unnecessary complexity, expense, and weight.
Also an LSD can often lead to even more force on the tranny, since the extra power isn't sent to the easiest to spin wheel.
The '91 X180-R had a specially hardened tranny (gears and casing) to deal with trackday use, and its standard clutch type LSD.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
Of course they knew that the transmission couldn't handle more than 350hp, that's exactly why they limited boost in the lower gears through the ECU programming.
The "half shaft issue" is actually by design. It's better to replace a broken half shaft than any gear of the tranny.
You generally don't need intercooling when you are only running 7psi of boost. So that would have been extra unnecessary complexity, expense, and weight.
Also an LSD can often lead to even more force on the tranny, since the extra power isn't sent to the easiest to spin wheel.
The '91 X180-R had a specially hardened tranny (gears and casing) to deal with trackday use, and its standard clutch type LSD.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
KARMA.....I am not asking any advice. I am in the market of a V8. Any technical stuffs that I need to know about the V8 series is very important. I owned Lotuses for many years. I stopped & out of touch for a long,long time. I am trying to get back and refresh my Lotus instinct.
Since you called me jackass, I wish to GOD that I can meet you!
Since you called me jackass, I wish to GOD that I can meet you!
I work for a car parts supplier and I am quite sure that carmakers KNOW about all the claimed issues ( and a whole lot more that we dont know about )
give them a little more credit.. they deal with this as a full time job with a crew of the best engineers.. most of us put maybe an hour a day into it.
Whether or not they ADMIT knowiing about it is entirely polical and related to $$$$$$$$$.
Please dont think that they dont know about issues after 28 years of producing the same car... sheesh..
There is some markeeting related HP controls from the mainstream car companies.. but i think most lotus stuff is meant to be at the limit of technology each year..
give them a little more credit.. they deal with this as a full time job with a crew of the best engineers.. most of us put maybe an hour a day into it.
Whether or not they ADMIT knowiing about it is entirely polical and related to $$$$$$$$$.
Please dont think that they dont know about issues after 28 years of producing the same car... sheesh..
There is some markeeting related HP controls from the mainstream car companies.. but i think most lotus stuff is meant to be at the limit of technology each year..
karmavore said:
Can't the half shaft issue be cured with an LSD?
It is inconceivable to me that you would rebuild a gearbox so many times that you can break it down blind folded instead of spending all that time and money finding a real solution.
Lucas.
Lucas,
Some people prefer to do things the "hard" way, that's their choice. In Johan's case, he's stubborn, and he likes to do things himself. Given timing and other limitations he chose to use the standard transmission, to see how far he could push it. In reality he hasn't rebuilt the gearbox many times at all. He took it out once to have taller gearing put in. Then the shop hadn't calculated the gear ratios correctly, so he had to remove it again and send it back to get it done right. He also removed the transmission a few times to help Larry test out a new flywheel that wasn't fitting correctly when it got warm (seizing up really). Then he removed the tranny to fix a persistent rear main seal leak.
The only time the tranny was rebuilt was after he ran 210.8mph at Bonneville and 5th gear popped off the end of the shaft, that was at a sustained 200+mph and over 600hp! He lost drive at 210.8mph, and then coasted down to about 160mph, when the drive wheels locked up, and threw him into a slide. He finally regained control at about 100mph. So he sent the treanny out to be fixed, and in the meantime he got a loaner DeLorean Renault tranny (crownwheel turned over) to allow him to drive (including a 10.9s 1/4 mile at 5300ft altitude).
then he removed that to send it back, and he put his rebuilt tranny back in.
It may sound like a big waste of time to you, but to Johan, it was just what he had to do. And he enjoyed the ride.
Travis
Vulcan Greuy 89SE
www.lotusclorado.com/vulcangrey/
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