Debating on the V8 tt or the S4s, Your opinion???
Discussion
Is cost an issue?
I have noticed that more people work on their own 4 cyl. as opposed to the V8 people who send their cars out to the shop. I like working on my own car, it's part of the hobby and keeps me in tune with the car. Like you can fix small problems before it turns into big ones. I wish more people would work on their own cars. I still send my other cars out to the shop as I can not bring myself to performance tune a mini van or compact economy car.
Calvin 90 SE
I have noticed that more people work on their own 4 cyl. as opposed to the V8 people who send their cars out to the shop. I like working on my own car, it's part of the hobby and keeps me in tune with the car. Like you can fix small problems before it turns into big ones. I wish more people would work on their own cars. I still send my other cars out to the shop as I can not bring myself to performance tune a mini van or compact economy car.
Calvin 90 SE
It seems that cost is the big issue. a 4cyl can be made blindingly fast with more boost, etc. I spoke to Johan today with an 11 sec. V8 lotus and he told me that the tranny is about the same as the 4 cyl. This tells me that you could easily buy an older 4 cyl w. power steering (i think '95 and newer) ramp up the boost, T3/4 turbo/ extrude hone the head, exaust and intake and have a 400 hp supercar.
This all sounds great and I am really leaning towards the 4cyl car but my problem is that I live in california. The state with the most restrictive smog Ive ever scene. Is it possible to obtain the power of the v8 tt and also stay smog legal.
Thanks again for your responses. Your more then helping make a Lotus owner out of me.
Thanks again for your responses. Your more then helping make a Lotus owner out of me.
Yes there is a dual chip the Sanj has the have both stock and performance maps on it. Maps for both the stock and enhanced are field selectable. The only thing is you can not select on the fly. You must have the car at a stop and engine off to select. That way you can set the car to stock to pass emission and the switch back to performance once you get home.
Calvin
Calvin
Sounds like an awsome idea, but what about the rest of the performance parts. Mufflers, aftermarket turbos, internal block work etc. Is any of that needed to get the car to aprouch 400hp? And do they carry a carb number that will pass a clifornia emissions test?
Thanks for all your help guys
>> Edited by DreamMachine on Tuesday 3rd September 23:25
Thanks for all your help guys
>> Edited by DreamMachine on Tuesday 3rd September 23:25
I asked the same question on the Turbo Esprit list when an early V8 came up for sale here and I could have swaped my S4s for it. The general consensus was that unless I can afford a 2001+V8, not to do the swap as the S4s was the 20+years advancement of the 4 cyl engine while the older V8's were a brand new model that had the brand new model quirks. Also, cosmetically wise, my S4s has the V8 wheel arches, wheels and interior options, so apart from the dual exhaust it's indistinguishable from a V8.
Regarding performance figures. According to all the mags from here 0-60mph, S4s did it in 4.2s while the early V8 in 4.7s
Regarding performance figures. According to all the mags from here 0-60mph, S4s did it in 4.2s while the early V8 in 4.7s
The difference in performance may be down to some test drivers knowing how to get the S4s in to 'overboost' and some not. The esprit fact file mentions this.
Having owned both 4 cyl and v8, i'd say that any measure based on performance figures in magazines is pretty irrelevant. A well driven S4s will stay with a V8 no problem on a real road. Difference is that the S4s driver will be having to work that much harder to keep up. The V8 is fast on or off boost (295lbf torque) so the v8 driver will be having a much easier time of it..
Agree, most 4 cylinder owners seem to be able to do more of the maintenance than v8 owners. Plus for maintenance generally you've got a simpler engine with the 4 cyl. Other aspect to this though is that the v8 gets 350bhp as standard out of 3.5 litres and 2 turbos so only 100bhp per litre hence is NOT a stressed engine.
Simple - drive both cars and then make your choice.
Having owned both 4 cyl and v8, i'd say that any measure based on performance figures in magazines is pretty irrelevant. A well driven S4s will stay with a V8 no problem on a real road. Difference is that the S4s driver will be having to work that much harder to keep up. The V8 is fast on or off boost (295lbf torque) so the v8 driver will be having a much easier time of it..
Agree, most 4 cylinder owners seem to be able to do more of the maintenance than v8 owners. Plus for maintenance generally you've got a simpler engine with the 4 cyl. Other aspect to this though is that the v8 gets 350bhp as standard out of 3.5 litres and 2 turbos so only 100bhp per litre hence is NOT a stressed engine.
Simple - drive both cars and then make your choice.
Yes the car will pass CA emission with performance parts. If I am not mistaken a lot of those parts will not even come into play. The turbo and extra fuel fuel flow will not be engaged during testing. I'm not sure about current CA testing but don't they just put a probe in pipe at idle? and read co and monoxide levels? Yes the 4 cyl.is in the upper reaches of HP compared to a V8. But I have seen 4 cyl. Esprit's with 100k+ miles on it. Unheard of in other model of Lotus cars. Heck I was rebuilding my Europa at 40K with worn guides sucking oil. Yes even my SE will keep up with most V8's as many of the owners are a bit more conservative in driving. It could be what I call the the money factor, the thought of doing somehing to a car that costs double or triple of what my SE costs. They maybe are making large loan payments and can ill afford a major mechanical problem or accidents. Since I neither have a loan payment or have to pay service labor (only parts) I at times get a little bolder (there is a difference between bold and stupid however). A few owners however are very good drivers and they could smoke me with the extra HP. I would have to drive very smooth and they still could get sloppy and with the extra torque still have a high exit speed out of the turn. In any case if you are getting into the Esprit from a regular car whatever you get will be fast. Just remember that if you have not driven a performance car. The first year of Esprit ownership is the danger year with many new owners having lost it or near misses. Just like in flying private planes after the first year the accident rate goes down as one gets used to the car. Have fun with the hobby it is a good one.
Enjoy,
Calvin 90 SE
Enjoy,
Calvin 90 SE
Im not to worried about the performance aspect. Honestly Im taking a step down in performance when I buy a lotus. Well at least as far as forword speed. I need a car that can handle the turns and Im sure the lotus can do it. Now, without the concept of money in mind(bet you never heard a 19 year old say that) Which car is the better buy as a daily driver. Of course the car will be driven hard so the car that can take a beating will also be a factor.
quote:
Im not to worried about the performance aspect. Honestly Im taking a step down in performance when I buy a lotus. Well at least as far as forword speed. I need a car that can handle the turns and Im sure the lotus can do it. Now, without the concept of money in mind(bet you never heard a 19 year old say that) Which car is the better buy as a daily driver. Of course the car will be driven hard so the car that can take a beating will also be a factor.
If money is not an issue, then the new 2002MY V8's without a doubt. They are the most 'advanced' Esprits in numerous ways.
From the way you described Johan (the one with the 11 sec. car). I must assume when you mean a step down in forward performance you must be talking about some American V8 muscle car like a Chevy or Mopar product. While the stock SE will only do high 12's on it's best day I don't do that sort of thing on the track as I don't really like to stop at a 1/4 mile and go for a mile or two. If I want to beat American V8's I just keep going till they bail as they get floaty at high speeds. They back off real quick when highway turns in to a bend at that speed. Amazing what a slight bend does to those cars. Both model Esprit's handle well and can do 150+ planted firmly on the road on a semi regular basis. Just the other day I smoked a GSXR accelerating in the 60-150 range this is the only car that I have owned that can take on most sport bikes. The cars are quite finicky compared to Detroit iron and would not last long if that fact is forgotten. Have you ever seen the engine compartment of a V8 Esprit? It looks quite different. I sure it's all geting used to it. I think I would feel lost for while as I have been working on just 4 cyl. cars for a long time. If you got the money go for a V8, Do you like to do your own work? That is also a factor. Most V8 guys do not work on their own cars. The old carb and distributor days are gone in this era and type of car. better be good at computer diagnostics, chip maps, turbo flow and injector theory. Just go ride or drive one and make up your mind. After all you surely are not going to make up your mind based on the posts in this forum.
Good luck,
Calvin
Good luck,
Calvin
Thats a very true statment I have got to drive one before I realy will know what I want. I just have no idea where in Northern California I can find a dealership. Ive only seen one lotus on the road in my life. I do own an american Muscle car and yes any turn will throw her poorly designed chasey right off the road but its very stable at 175mph. I was very shocked by that.
I don't know if they will let you drive one, but they will surely let you ride in one for sure. You may have to go to the Bay area as they have 2 strong groups there. One is Golden Gate Lotus club and the other is just for Esprit's and called Bay area Esprit. Maybe you can go to their next track day and have a nice chat. You can see some of their cars at http://lombardstreetrun.home.mchsi.com Larry Marsala is one of Johan's cohorts and belongs to this group. While Johan is extreme speed, Larry's silver Esprit is a full on road course racer that he calls the Misstress. The car is also featured on Johan's Extreme Esprit website. If you like I can put you in contact with them or get in touch with Larry through the Extreme Esprit website.
Calvin 90 Se
Calvin 90 Se
Now everyone do not bash this guy for his decision.
It is hard for a person with a muscle car V8 background to make the shift to sports car. It is too different to just compare spec's. I wondered if he was going in the right direction when some of the comments he made had me thinking American V8 and he will be much happier driving something else for the money he will spend, something with a good hole shot, after all that is not what an Esprit was made to do. Riding in an Esprit would have helped, not many can make the transition from 1/4 mile car to sports GT.
Calvin 90 SE
It is hard for a person with a muscle car V8 background to make the shift to sports car. It is too different to just compare spec's. I wondered if he was going in the right direction when some of the comments he made had me thinking American V8 and he will be much happier driving something else for the money he will spend, something with a good hole shot, after all that is not what an Esprit was made to do. Riding in an Esprit would have helped, not many can make the transition from 1/4 mile car to sports GT.
Calvin 90 SE
Calvin, You are the Man!!!
After reviewing what I wrote I thought it might have been to harsh and would end up stirring some undesired critisism. Thank you very much and maybe when I do get the oppertunity to sit in the driver seat and feel the difference between The Domestic V8(sloppy horsepower) and the exotic sports car (true automotive design) then my mind will be changed for ever but until then Ill have to settle with bone crushing torque. Thanks again Calvin
After reviewing what I wrote I thought it might have been to harsh and would end up stirring some undesired critisism. Thank you very much and maybe when I do get the oppertunity to sit in the driver seat and feel the difference between The Domestic V8(sloppy horsepower) and the exotic sports car (true automotive design) then my mind will be changed for ever but until then Ill have to settle with bone crushing torque. Thanks again Calvin
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