Looking For Exhaust Manifold for 91SE
Discussion
Another cracked exhaust manifold. Does anyone happen to have a used one laying around for a 91SE that would like to part with it. New ones are priced at well over 1000.00usd. I'm located in Los Angeles - Any help??
jlicata@socal.rr.com
Thanks!
Joey
>>> Edited by Joey Licata on Saturday 26th March 07:36
jlicata@socal.rr.com
Thanks!
Joey
>>> Edited by Joey Licata on Saturday 26th March 07:36
Dr. Hess,
Thank you for your reply. I actually had mine welded up a while back, but I think they must not have went far enough, because the crack grew another 3" past the end of the weld. I think it's definately time to replace it - UGH. If you hear of any for sale or have any other ideas, please feel free to pass my email address around. jlicata@socal.rr.com
Thanks,
Joey
Thank you for your reply. I actually had mine welded up a while back, but I think they must not have went far enough, because the crack grew another 3" past the end of the weld. I think it's definately time to replace it - UGH. If you hear of any for sale or have any other ideas, please feel free to pass my email address around. jlicata@socal.rr.com
Thanks,
Joey
Hey Joey,
When I welded mine, this is what I did:
* ID each crack (3 or 4) and clean with a wire brush
* Drill a 1/8" hole all the way through at the end of each crack to stop it from propigating
* Grind a V down into the cracks, not all the way through.
* Preheat the manifold to 400 degrees F in my oven
* Weld up with nickle welding rod (expensive stuff, like $22/lb) with my AC stick welder
* Post heat back to 400F, turn oven off and let cool down overnight (I have an oven in my shop just for such tasks)
* Sand blast the slag off the inside of the welds
* "Hole match" the manifold by drilling/grinding out each bolt hole to match the head stud pattern so the manifold goes on without being under stress
Just the welding and prep was a lot of work, not to mention getting the damn thing off and on. Cast iron is not the easiest stuff to make stick. I am not a professional welder, but from the research I did, this seems to be how the pro's do it when they want it done right. As you can imagine, just the process I described took a full day to do. If I just took it down to a shop, I seriously doubt they would have gone through all that trouble. They probably would have just heated it up with a torch, hit it with the nickle rod and said, "There you go. No guarantees."
Dr.Hess
When I welded mine, this is what I did:
* ID each crack (3 or 4) and clean with a wire brush
* Drill a 1/8" hole all the way through at the end of each crack to stop it from propigating
* Grind a V down into the cracks, not all the way through.
* Preheat the manifold to 400 degrees F in my oven
* Weld up with nickle welding rod (expensive stuff, like $22/lb) with my AC stick welder
* Post heat back to 400F, turn oven off and let cool down overnight (I have an oven in my shop just for such tasks)
* Sand blast the slag off the inside of the welds
* "Hole match" the manifold by drilling/grinding out each bolt hole to match the head stud pattern so the manifold goes on without being under stress
Just the welding and prep was a lot of work, not to mention getting the damn thing off and on. Cast iron is not the easiest stuff to make stick. I am not a professional welder, but from the research I did, this seems to be how the pro's do it when they want it done right. As you can imagine, just the process I described took a full day to do. If I just took it down to a shop, I seriously doubt they would have gone through all that trouble. They probably would have just heated it up with a torch, hit it with the nickle rod and said, "There you go. No guarantees."
Dr.Hess
Joey,
The procedure Dr. Hess described is exactly what a welder did for our manifold. Except I'm not certain if he did the subsequent heat up and cool down. I added the step of having the manifold machined to ensure the best fit to the gaskets. Given the odd shape of the manifold you need a machinist who knows his stuff.
The procedure Dr. Hess described is exactly what a welder did for our manifold. Except I'm not certain if he did the subsequent heat up and cool down. I added the step of having the manifold machined to ensure the best fit to the gaskets. Given the odd shape of the manifold you need a machinist who knows his stuff.
Although I sold my Lotus I second what he said above.
I had mine welded by a local shop that does cast iron - against all naysayers of doom. Survived two tracks days of driving and about 7k miles - still fine as far as I know. And mine had about 4 cracks that had to be welded, all held just fine.
Weld that sucker up, it'll work. I think these rumors that it can't be done get started when one guy has a bad experience with it and it propagates across the universe to become truth.
R
I had mine welded by a local shop that does cast iron - against all naysayers of doom. Survived two tracks days of driving and about 7k miles - still fine as far as I know. And mine had about 4 cracks that had to be welded, all held just fine.
Weld that sucker up, it'll work. I think these rumors that it can't be done get started when one guy has a bad experience with it and it propagates across the universe to become truth.
R
Yeah, Ron, I call it "Net Wisdom." Someone says something and it gets repeated over and over until a year later someone asks a question and gets blasted with "That will never work!!!" from someone that has never had any first hand experience with whatever it is. Saw it with my 4AGE 20 valve. Everyone said it would never run right on US gas, blah blah. Fantastic motor. I think I was one of the first to actually put it in a US car.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
Well mine is more than a rumor. 
Had mine welded about 8 months ago and it has cracked in the weld as well as another place. This from an old time welder who proclaimed "we weld cast iron all the time and have had no problems"
In reality though I'm sure he didn't go through the procedure as Dr. Hess described as he only charged me about $40 to do it. I've got a good mind to try and do it myself just to see if it could be done again but alas I've already ordered a new one.
I can also tell you that Jeff at JAE has told me that he has never seen a welded repair hold up long term. Of course Jeff is not in the welding business either
but I consider him a good guy and a straight shooter.
Hey Hess, if yours holds up then maybe you could go into business repairing them. With the cost of these manifolds it would probably be almost as profitable as practicing medicine.
Cheers,
Jim
>> Edited by jk1 on Wednesday 30th March 04:35
Had mine welded about 8 months ago and it has cracked in the weld as well as another place. This from an old time welder who proclaimed "we weld cast iron all the time and have had no problems" In reality though I'm sure he didn't go through the procedure as Dr. Hess described as he only charged me about $40 to do it. I've got a good mind to try and do it myself just to see if it could be done again but alas I've already ordered a new one.
I can also tell you that Jeff at JAE has told me that he has never seen a welded repair hold up long term. Of course Jeff is not in the welding business either
but I consider him a good guy and a straight shooter. Hey Hess, if yours holds up then maybe you could go into business repairing them. With the cost of these manifolds it would probably be almost as profitable as practicing medicine.
Cheers,
Jim
>> Edited by jk1 on Wednesday 30th March 04:35
Yeah, Jim. Probably pay better than medicine, and: No beepers, no one trying to win the lottery on you, no one coming into the ER at 0300 complaining of "I can't sleep and I want drugs" then writing nasty letters when you don't give them the type of drugs they demand, etc. And when was the last time you saw an ad on TV saying "If you have been to a welder, please call the law firm of..."
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess said:I'm curious about this. Is it possible the manifold is designed to (theoretically) relieve stress as it heats up?
Hey Joey,
When I welded mine, this is what I did:
* "Hole match" the manifold by drilling/grinding out each bolt hole to match the head stud pattern so the manifold goes on without being under stress.
I could imagine this being so but maybe production tolerances would never allow it.
My manifold was way off as far as fitting over the bolt holes. Also cracked in 3-4 places. I had the Al v. cast Fe v. 304 Stainless coefficient of expansion discussion with Squelch, and I don't think the amount of expansion and the differences in the materials enters into the pic. I think the difference is just one of English manufacturing tolerances. Remember that according to a recent study, after lunch 1/2 of all English workers are intoxicated.
I hole-matched it by laying my Work-in-Progress one piece manifold flange that I designed, did the CAD on and had water jet cut out of 1/2" 304 and that fits perfectly on the head studs over the repaired cast manifold, then removing the metal in the cast manifold until the holes all about lined up. It then fit on the studs fairly smoothly.
Dr.Hess
I hole-matched it by laying my Work-in-Progress one piece manifold flange that I designed, did the CAD on and had water jet cut out of 1/2" 304 and that fits perfectly on the head studs over the repaired cast manifold, then removing the metal in the cast manifold until the holes all about lined up. It then fit on the studs fairly smoothly.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess said:Certainly noone will accuse you of taking the easy way out.
I hole-matched it by laying my Work-in-Progress one piece manifold flange that I designed, did the CAD on and had water jet cut out of 1/2" 304 and that fits perfectly on the head studs over the repaired cast manifold, then removing the metal in the cast manifold until the holes all about lined up. It then fit on the studs fairly smoothly.
Seriously, good points.
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