Esprit for el cheapo
Discussion
AndrewZorn said:
I really really really want an Esprit.
I'd be perfectly okay with a mid-80s to late-80s Esprit in deacent condition.
The problem is, I will have USD$12000 to spend at best.
Can it be done?
Even if you could find an Esprit for $12,000, it sounds like you wouldn't be able to afford to own and maintain one. Keep in mind that a cheaper Esprit will be cheap because it needs alot of work and parts.
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
It's about 18 months out of date, but I was watching Esprit prices on ebay for about two years before I bought mine.
www.driestone.net/mechanic/lotus_prices.html
As mentioned earlier, $12k is just the start. I spent about that on my '83 and I'm knee deep in a $5k engine rebuild right now (and I'm doing 75% of the labor myself.) A friend of mine bought an S4S for $28k and found a fair share of jerry rigging that someone had done.
Bottom line is, make sure you can afford $3,000+ a year for upkeep and repair.
www.driestone.net/mechanic/lotus_prices.html
As mentioned earlier, $12k is just the start. I spent about that on my '83 and I'm knee deep in a $5k engine rebuild right now (and I'm doing 75% of the labor myself.) A friend of mine bought an S4S for $28k and found a fair share of jerry rigging that someone had done.
Bottom line is, make sure you can afford $3,000+ a year for upkeep and repair.
Hi,
Here's an interesting car seems to be in your price range:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6312&item=4537766454&rd=1
From what you can see in the pictures, it appears to be fairly intact, good match on the gaps and overall pretty good exterior. Appear to be original stock BBS wheels which have been redone as the black center isn't standard, nor are the blacked out windows. The side stickers are missing, so maybe it's had some work. The owner has also added a 3rd brakelight which looks fairly well done. The airdam has some chips, though don't seem too bad, easy fix.
Interior looks ok and maybe consistent with the mileage shown. Too bad he installed the phone the way he did. Headliner is a little droopy, but so is mine, probably the foam degarding undeneath, I've never addressed mine because it's livable. The ad mentions cruise control, this wasn't available, nor is any visible in the pics - Typo? The boot mounted CD player is a bit 'iffy' being mounted on the turbo (hot) side of the boot, and the wiring seems somwhat haphazard, running just along the engine bay cover.
The engine appears to be unmolested, even the emissions airpump and air injectors are is still installed, rare to see that. Engine seems fairly clean with no evidence of major oil leakage. From what I can see, something is unusual about the choke cable setup, but the pics aren't that clear.
Assuming the car is a 1-owner 31k mi. example, it could be a fair deal. From what I can see, it looks as good or better than most '84 examples I've seen. But, as it's a 22 y.o. example, plan on at least $2,000 to replace tires, waterpump, plugs, wires, belts, valve timing, hoses, possibly a recore and vacuum pump, wheel bearings, and other sundry stuff. You may not need that much, but plan on it just in case.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 23 March 00:08
Here's an interesting car seems to be in your price range:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6312&item=4537766454&rd=1
From what you can see in the pictures, it appears to be fairly intact, good match on the gaps and overall pretty good exterior. Appear to be original stock BBS wheels which have been redone as the black center isn't standard, nor are the blacked out windows. The side stickers are missing, so maybe it's had some work. The owner has also added a 3rd brakelight which looks fairly well done. The airdam has some chips, though don't seem too bad, easy fix.
Interior looks ok and maybe consistent with the mileage shown. Too bad he installed the phone the way he did. Headliner is a little droopy, but so is mine, probably the foam degarding undeneath, I've never addressed mine because it's livable. The ad mentions cruise control, this wasn't available, nor is any visible in the pics - Typo? The boot mounted CD player is a bit 'iffy' being mounted on the turbo (hot) side of the boot, and the wiring seems somwhat haphazard, running just along the engine bay cover.
The engine appears to be unmolested, even the emissions airpump and air injectors are is still installed, rare to see that. Engine seems fairly clean with no evidence of major oil leakage. From what I can see, something is unusual about the choke cable setup, but the pics aren't that clear.
Assuming the car is a 1-owner 31k mi. example, it could be a fair deal. From what I can see, it looks as good or better than most '84 examples I've seen. But, as it's a 22 y.o. example, plan on at least $2,000 to replace tires, waterpump, plugs, wires, belts, valve timing, hoses, possibly a recore and vacuum pump, wheel bearings, and other sundry stuff. You may not need that much, but plan on it just in case.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Wednesday 23 March 00:08
That last one looks really nice... but the price will be going up over the last 2 days, so it is hard to say what it will end up being.
My money will come in intervals, so I don't have a constant influx of money for repairs. Considering this, I might have to undershoot what I have a few thousand to allow for repairs, right?
I'm not asserting that I can afford all of this, but the idea that I might be able to come up with the money was definately intriguing. Would not even be able to purchase until Augustish.
The current plan is:
Enough money for the Esprit: Esprit
$6500+: Supra Turbo/TwinTurbo
Less than $6500: GSXR600 or F4i +leathers +helmet
My money will come in intervals, so I don't have a constant influx of money for repairs. Considering this, I might have to undershoot what I have a few thousand to allow for repairs, right?
I'm not asserting that I can afford all of this, but the idea that I might be able to come up with the money was definately intriguing. Would not even be able to purchase until Augustish.
The current plan is:
Enough money for the Esprit: Esprit
$6500+: Supra Turbo/TwinTurbo
Less than $6500: GSXR600 or F4i +leathers +helmet
We're not being elitist at all when we say this. It truly sounds like the Esprit will be a stretch for you.
It's not just budgeting to have an extra 3K around at purchase time to cover any repairs. It's about always having that kind of cash at your disposal, because any cheap Esprit (and most expensive ones) will require you to input the cash.
You would be miserable if you invested your money in an Esprit, immediately shelled out another 3 grand for tires, belts, etc, and THEN had something break. Like anything with the tranny or clutch, etc.
Now you are stuck with a car you can't drive, you can't fix (because you'd need another god-knows-how-many thousand), and you can't sell it, cause it's broke.
You quickly becaome that Lotus owner who hates the car because it bit you in the ass.
It's just a fair bit of warning...you might b better off with one of the other cars you listed, and later on down the road when your finances lend themselves better towards a Lotus, you can sell it and make the plunge.
Just my two cents.
Mike
It's not just budgeting to have an extra 3K around at purchase time to cover any repairs. It's about always having that kind of cash at your disposal, because any cheap Esprit (and most expensive ones) will require you to input the cash.
You would be miserable if you invested your money in an Esprit, immediately shelled out another 3 grand for tires, belts, etc, and THEN had something break. Like anything with the tranny or clutch, etc.
Now you are stuck with a car you can't drive, you can't fix (because you'd need another god-knows-how-many thousand), and you can't sell it, cause it's broke.
You quickly becaome that Lotus owner who hates the car because it bit you in the ass.
It's just a fair bit of warning...you might b better off with one of the other cars you listed, and later on down the road when your finances lend themselves better towards a Lotus, you can sell it and make the plunge.
Just my two cents.
Mike
I understand that you're working with a budget, but if you and your bank can stretch to US$14500, I can put you in touch with an 88 Esprit with a fresh engine and paint job. The extra money that it's usually wise to budget for a used Esprit has already gone into this car.
It's not my car and I have no connection to it, but I can introduce you to the seller. Contact me offline if interested.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
It's not my car and I have no connection to it, but I can introduce you to the seller. Contact me offline if interested.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Thanks for the advice, I'm checking out prices now...
Looks like I'll have a max of around $7000 to spend on a car or $5000 on a motorcycle. If anyone has any suggestions for either, feel free...
For a car, I'm thinking along the lines of Supra Turbo/TwinTurbo type stuff, 3000GT maybe. It won't be American, but I won't be getting some ricer crap either... nor would I be ricing any car I get.
For the bike... it will be my first, but I am really against the idea of a learner bike, I'm going to start on a 600. Thinking either the Suzuki GSXR600, Honda CBR600F4i, or Honda CBR600RR. Sounds kind of steep, but I really do not have the money etc. to start on a Ninja or something.
...also still trying to decide which one to get! I can spend more on the car because that way I'd be able to sell my old one, that is the only reason. Insurance, stealability, and a little bit of safety are my concerns in the decision. Safety is the least of my concerns, though. Motorcycle sounds more fun, car sounds more serious. Tough to say.
Looks like I'll have a max of around $7000 to spend on a car or $5000 on a motorcycle. If anyone has any suggestions for either, feel free...
For a car, I'm thinking along the lines of Supra Turbo/TwinTurbo type stuff, 3000GT maybe. It won't be American, but I won't be getting some ricer crap either... nor would I be ricing any car I get.
For the bike... it will be my first, but I am really against the idea of a learner bike, I'm going to start on a 600. Thinking either the Suzuki GSXR600, Honda CBR600F4i, or Honda CBR600RR. Sounds kind of steep, but I really do not have the money etc. to start on a Ninja or something.
...also still trying to decide which one to get! I can spend more on the car because that way I'd be able to sell my old one, that is the only reason. Insurance, stealability, and a little bit of safety are my concerns in the decision. Safety is the least of my concerns, though. Motorcycle sounds more fun, car sounds more serious. Tough to say.
I can second the MR2. My son has a mark1 supercharged version with the larger pulley wheel. Boost now about 14lbs. Did 14.137 1/4 with a 1.9 60foot time. A reliable daily driver and as much fun on tight twisty corners as my S4. In fact there are times when his instant grunt off idle, because of the supercharger, is a bonus. Cheapish on parts and maintenance too with lots of info on the net as well.
AndrewZorn said:
Thinking either the Suzuki GSXR600, Honda CBR600F4i, or Honda CBR600RR.
Motorcycle sounds more fun, car sounds more serious. Tough to say.
I made the same choice after my TR7 burned up. I went for the sportbike and never regretted it. It was my only transportation for 1.5 years, but well worth it!
If you are new to sportbikes, read on...
being that everybody ends up riding beyond their skill until their first wreck (myself included), go for the F4i. Having owned 2 of the bikes listed above and a couple of others, the F4i is the easiest for a beginner to ride fast--it does all the work for you.
wait for the Lotus. If you really want it, you will get it eventually. It was worth the wait for me.
another plan is to get a rich girlfriend. it worked great for a guy I used to ride with. she bought him 5 Bimotas
chris
90SE (finally!)
ragingfool said:
Thinking either the Suzuki GSXR600, Honda CBR600F4i, or Honda CBR600RR.
Motorcycle sounds more fun, car sounds more serious. Tough to say.
I made the same choice after my TR7 burned up. I went for the sportbike and never regretted it. It was my only transportation for 1.5 years, but well worth it!
If you are new to sportbikes, read on...
being that everybody ends up riding beyond their skill until their first wreck (myself included), go for the F4i. Having owned 2 of the bikes listed above and a couple of others, the F4i is the easiest for a beginner to ride fast--it does all the work for you.
wait for the Lotus. If you really want it, you will get it eventually. It was worth the wait for me.
another plan is to get a rich girlfriend. it worked great for a guy I used to ride with. she bought him 5 Bimotas
chris
90SE (finally!)
That's what I've heard... Honda. I'm just an even bigger fan of Suzuki is the only reason for it being there, the Hayabusa being in my opinion the best motor vehicle in existence. How was it your only transportation?
The reasons I'm thinking against it (NOT reasons I don't WANT it...)
- Practicality: I'd be putting on leathers and a helmet to ride. You can't really just do the drive to work or anything just like that... Being in college, I don't have quite as many places to go, but sometimes I have to carry stuff. I'm not worrying about the latter too much though, becuase again, I'll try to keep A car even if it isn't the one I have now.
- Theft: I've had my stereo broken into after being here only 6mos, so have countless friends. I WOULD, however have a lighted parking deck with a garage door that only opens with a keycard this year. Also, I plan on spending ~$500 on a GPS and a tracker to bury deep within the bike so I know where it is at all times. If it gets stolen, I do not plan to involve the police...
- And there's always the chance I get in a wreck. Not necessarily my fault, but there are a ton of crazy/drunk/bad drivers here.
I nearly forgot,
Gran Turismo 4 is the best racing game ever made. You can take pictures of the cars you own when racing or just standing still and move them over to your PC. Most of these are of my favorite Esprit, the '87 Turbo. I'm going to buy the newest one tomorrow and check it out. It's really nice because I can simulate with reasonable accuracy its acceleration and compare it to other cars and drive it myself etc.
By the way the first few are of my Nissan 350Z.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ninjasite2000/GT4/
Gran Turismo 4 is the best racing game ever made. You can take pictures of the cars you own when racing or just standing still and move them over to your PC. Most of these are of my favorite Esprit, the '87 Turbo. I'm going to buy the newest one tomorrow and check it out. It's really nice because I can simulate with reasonable accuracy its acceleration and compare it to other cars and drive it myself etc.
By the way the first few are of my Nissan 350Z.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ninjasite2000/GT4/
I hope when you say Supra, you don't mean the last ones, like 93+. If you can find one for under 10K... even under 20K, please let me know. A beautiful car but they command such a steep and unrealistic price unfortunately.
I would steer clear of the 3000GT/Stealth.
At present for you and with what you have to spend, although my first choice would of course be Lotus
, I would recommend the MR2 as well.. maybe even a nice 2G DSM (1995-1999 Talon/Eclipse), if you can find one as they are becoming rare in stock/good condition.
I would steer clear of the 3000GT/Stealth.
At present for you and with what you have to spend, although my first choice would of course be Lotus
, I would recommend the MR2 as well.. maybe even a nice 2G DSM (1995-1999 Talon/Eclipse), if you can find one as they are becoming rare in stock/good condition. Do a search for the AW11 version of the MR2. That's the 1600cc 4aget version built up to 1988/89. There's a large international following. Here in oz there's a guy who took off the supercharger and set up a turbo system running 30lbs boost for 10.6 quarters. Drives it to and from work too. The factory supercharged motor is virtually unbreakable with the right approach. Forged pistons, small, light, high reving etc etc. And the supercharged g/box is from the Celica GT4's with the extra drive for AWD deleted. Also extremely strong. There was an update with ceramic syncros that can be backfitted to these boxes. LSD's also available etc etc. Rumours abound that the AW11 was initially a Lotus design (Type 90?) that was taken over by Toyota at a time when the two were co-operating a lot together. Both strongly deny Lotus had any involvment. Whatever... the AW11 has a style very similar to the Esprit (eg the dash slope and binnacle of the two, Chapman er MacPherson struts all round and a feel and ability that was so much more competent than anything else from Japan at the time. Remember this is over 20 years ago now! English magazines today still rate it a better drive than some current sportscars eg MGF. Only advice would be to avoid the T top for either the solid roof or lift out sunroof as they are torsionally stiffer. Oh and don't push it in the wet but that's good training for when the Esprit arrives too. The AW11 is probably the driver's choice though the next MR2, the SW20, has a gorgeous Ferrari look, a bigger 2 litre engine which was also available with a turbo plus that strong GT4 box. It also a huge following with people getting over 400 bhp from the turbos. If you lust after an Esprit but accept waiting a little longer take a good look at the MR2.
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