Rear Main Seal Centering Tool -- Group Buy
Discussion
Rear Main Seal Centering Tool -- Group Buy
The front and rear main seal housings on the Lotus 9XX 4-cylinder engines need to be properly centered during installation. Failure to do so can lead to leaks and pre-mature failure of the seal. Lotus offered a special tool that made centering a snap; however, they longer make it, and NOS supplies are dwindling. In the USA, LCU is out of rear seal tools, I bought Dave Bean's last one, and JAE is down to just the tools they use for their own business.
Last Fall Jim Knowles offered to honcho a group buy on the rear seal tool. At the time, Dave Cammack and I were talking with Jim (swapping tools back and forth) and also working on replicating both the front and rear tools. We all had the same idea, but we weren't coordinating our efforts. Subsequently, we re-grouped to make one focused effort. If you previously expressed interest to Jim Knowles in buying a rear seal tool but have been wondering where it all went... well, here it is. We're back.
I've drawn up both the front and rear main seal centering tools. Dave has quoted them with a CNC machine shop with whom he does business and we've gotten some pretty favorable pricing on all stainless steel parts. Good stuff. We're now ready to go. The rear tool will be produced and sold first, then followed in short order by the front tool. If you are still interested, please re-submit your orders... we are starting over from scratch.
No money for the moment, just send your order to me, Tim Engel, at tengel@mchsi.com. The pricing noted below is for a 20 piece buy quantity. When the final tally rolls in, if the number is short, we may need to make a small price adjustment. We are passing costs on and don't have a profit margin buffer to absorb cost variations. We don't mind passing on a good price, but we aren't going to take a loss on the deal. Seem fair ??
US$95.00 plus shipping from USA Zip Code 55401.
Rear Main Seal Centering Tool Assembly - all stainless steel. Head, removable handle, two interchangeable sleeves to fit different spigot bearings. One sleeve fits the Esprit Renault spigot bearing (910/920). A second sleeve fits the Esprit Citroen size, as well as 907/912 applications for the Elite, Eclat, Excel and Jensen Healey. The head has a very thin, vulnerable edge that can be damaged (UPS killed one of mine in transit), so these will come with a thick-wall plastic shipping guard installed. Use it for storage.
The two spigot sleeves provided cover most of the standard applications. However, I don't have data for the size of the Sunbeam Talbot 911 spigot bearing bore, and there are so few automatic cars around that we chose not to include the appropriate sleeve in the standard kit… ie, not charging everyone for the few. Also, if you are an Esprit-Citroen owner who has done the ball bearing spigot conversion, you will need a slightly smaller sleeve than standard. If you have a need for another sleeve size besides the two provided, contact me directly. If someone can confirm the spigot size for the 911 Sunbeam Talbot cars for future reference, I'd appreciate it. Any additional sleeves would be at extra cost, and onesy-twosy parts get expensive (maybe $20 each in one-off quantities).
All orders will be pre-paid in US funds prior to placing the purchase order with the machine shop. Please do not place an order if you don't intend to follow through… backing out in the last moment will screw-up everyone else. PayPal will be acceptable and will really simplify any international orders and exchange rates. Otherwise a bank draft or international money order in US funds is acceptable.
This is a ONE TIME OFFER !!
We are doing this because 1) we want the tools and we're doing it either way, 2) higher volume results in lower prices, and I suppose... 3) we're just good guys and want to help fellow owners. ;-) We need 20 orders to hold the price, and we will pass the savings on to those who help us achieve them. Jim Knowles' effort netted a quick 16 orders, so we think 20 is possible.
After this one-time order, we will continue to make the tools available through JAE, but we don't want to get into the onesy-twosy retail business. JAE, like any good vendor, needs to make a profit, so future prices will be higher by their margin. No direct orders at this introductory price will be accepted in the future.
The FRONT main seal centering tool will be offered as soon as we finish this rear seal group buy. Same scenario, different price.
Send orders via e-mail to:
Tim Engel: tengel@mchsi.com
In response to your order message, you will be sent PayPal and/or snailmail information for making payment. We will take orders for a short time only. A week, maybe two… until the flow of orders seems to dry up. Then we'll count orders, adjust price for volume and ask for payment. The production order will not be placed until after payments are received, so delivery time will be a combination of order/payment time, production time, packing and shipping. I can't quote exact times now, but it will be weeks rather than days. You will be notified when your package ships.
Thanks for your interest...
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
The front and rear main seal housings on the Lotus 9XX 4-cylinder engines need to be properly centered during installation. Failure to do so can lead to leaks and pre-mature failure of the seal. Lotus offered a special tool that made centering a snap; however, they longer make it, and NOS supplies are dwindling. In the USA, LCU is out of rear seal tools, I bought Dave Bean's last one, and JAE is down to just the tools they use for their own business.
Last Fall Jim Knowles offered to honcho a group buy on the rear seal tool. At the time, Dave Cammack and I were talking with Jim (swapping tools back and forth) and also working on replicating both the front and rear tools. We all had the same idea, but we weren't coordinating our efforts. Subsequently, we re-grouped to make one focused effort. If you previously expressed interest to Jim Knowles in buying a rear seal tool but have been wondering where it all went... well, here it is. We're back.
I've drawn up both the front and rear main seal centering tools. Dave has quoted them with a CNC machine shop with whom he does business and we've gotten some pretty favorable pricing on all stainless steel parts. Good stuff. We're now ready to go. The rear tool will be produced and sold first, then followed in short order by the front tool. If you are still interested, please re-submit your orders... we are starting over from scratch.
No money for the moment, just send your order to me, Tim Engel, at tengel@mchsi.com. The pricing noted below is for a 20 piece buy quantity. When the final tally rolls in, if the number is short, we may need to make a small price adjustment. We are passing costs on and don't have a profit margin buffer to absorb cost variations. We don't mind passing on a good price, but we aren't going to take a loss on the deal. Seem fair ??
US$95.00 plus shipping from USA Zip Code 55401.
Rear Main Seal Centering Tool Assembly - all stainless steel. Head, removable handle, two interchangeable sleeves to fit different spigot bearings. One sleeve fits the Esprit Renault spigot bearing (910/920). A second sleeve fits the Esprit Citroen size, as well as 907/912 applications for the Elite, Eclat, Excel and Jensen Healey. The head has a very thin, vulnerable edge that can be damaged (UPS killed one of mine in transit), so these will come with a thick-wall plastic shipping guard installed. Use it for storage.
The two spigot sleeves provided cover most of the standard applications. However, I don't have data for the size of the Sunbeam Talbot 911 spigot bearing bore, and there are so few automatic cars around that we chose not to include the appropriate sleeve in the standard kit… ie, not charging everyone for the few. Also, if you are an Esprit-Citroen owner who has done the ball bearing spigot conversion, you will need a slightly smaller sleeve than standard. If you have a need for another sleeve size besides the two provided, contact me directly. If someone can confirm the spigot size for the 911 Sunbeam Talbot cars for future reference, I'd appreciate it. Any additional sleeves would be at extra cost, and onesy-twosy parts get expensive (maybe $20 each in one-off quantities).
All orders will be pre-paid in US funds prior to placing the purchase order with the machine shop. Please do not place an order if you don't intend to follow through… backing out in the last moment will screw-up everyone else. PayPal will be acceptable and will really simplify any international orders and exchange rates. Otherwise a bank draft or international money order in US funds is acceptable.
This is a ONE TIME OFFER !!
We are doing this because 1) we want the tools and we're doing it either way, 2) higher volume results in lower prices, and I suppose... 3) we're just good guys and want to help fellow owners. ;-) We need 20 orders to hold the price, and we will pass the savings on to those who help us achieve them. Jim Knowles' effort netted a quick 16 orders, so we think 20 is possible.
After this one-time order, we will continue to make the tools available through JAE, but we don't want to get into the onesy-twosy retail business. JAE, like any good vendor, needs to make a profit, so future prices will be higher by their margin. No direct orders at this introductory price will be accepted in the future.
The FRONT main seal centering tool will be offered as soon as we finish this rear seal group buy. Same scenario, different price.
Send orders via e-mail to:
Tim Engel: tengel@mchsi.com
In response to your order message, you will be sent PayPal and/or snailmail information for making payment. We will take orders for a short time only. A week, maybe two… until the flow of orders seems to dry up. Then we'll count orders, adjust price for volume and ask for payment. The production order will not be placed until after payments are received, so delivery time will be a combination of order/payment time, production time, packing and shipping. I can't quote exact times now, but it will be weeks rather than days. You will be notified when your package ships.
Thanks for your interest...
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Tim, I am kinda curious how the tool works. I take it that it has something that fits into the pilot (spigot) bearing and something thin that fits over the outside of the crank and under the seal lip? Any pics? Don't need one right now and don't want to spend the bucks, but I am curious as to what it looks like.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess said:
Tim, I am kinda curious how the tool works. I take it that it has something that fits into the pilot (spigot) bearing and something thin that fits over the outside of the crank and under the seal lip? Any pics? Don't need one right now and don't want to spend the bucks, but I am curious as to what it looks like.
Dr.Hess
Hey Doc,
I don't know if Tim answered you directly but you have the right idea as to how it works. You put it in place around the crankshaft and slide the seal and housing on over it.
Email me and I can send you a pic if you like.
Jim
Dr.Hess said:
Tim, I am kinda curious how the tool works. (Snip)... Any pics?
Hi Doc,
Sorry about the slow response.
The working end of both the front and rear tools is a slip fit over the crank's seal journal. At that point it's a thin sleeve only about .035" thick. Sliding the seal on over the outside of the tool puts about a .070" stretch (across the diameter) into the seal lip. That puts sufficient force into the lip that it really tends to self-center despite having to support the weight of the seal housing/ front cover.
Without the tool, the soft seal lip deflects under the weight of the housing and endeds up eccentric to the crank journal. If you're careful and measure carefully side-to-side and up-n-down, you can center it without the tool. But it's putzy and it's easy to slip while tightening the bolts. The tool makes it a brain-dead snap.
The rear tool is a little different from the front in that the original design included a center boss (spigot sleeve) that pilots into the crank's spigot bearing. That provides guidance before the thin outer lip gets to the seal journal. In terms of centering, it seems functionally redundant since the outer thin rim is a nice fit on the journal. Apparently Lotus thought so too, because they never added larger spigot sleeves for later applicatons (ie, spigot bearigns for Renault UN1 and automatics).
My opinion... the spigot sleeve is a nice convenience since it sticks out past the thin outer lip. It's easy to engage the spigot bearing first, then the thin outer shell slides over the crank journal first time every time. So we are including two spigot sleeves. One for the Renault spigot bearing and one for the Citroen-Esprit, Elite, Eclat, Excel and Jensen-Healey. If someone wants one for the automatics or the Sunbeam-Talbot (I don't know that size... help!) one can be provided on special order. But they are so rare that we didn't want to charge everyone for them).
Slide the seal/housing onto the centering tool. Slip the tool over the crank's seal journal and hold it there while bolting the seal housing into place. Remove the tool. Easy.
The rear tool also has a long conical taper that allows the seal to be installed from the back side. That also gives you the option of installing the tool onto the crank alone, then pushing the seal/housing on over the tapered back of the tool. Just a variation on the theme... same net effect.
I do have a picture of the rear seal tool I can send to you if you wish, but I don't have a website where I can post it before embedding it here. Would you like to receive it as an attachment?
The thin sleeve portion is delicate, even in steel (UPS smashed one of mine in transit). That's why I didn't go with aluminum. For shipping, the tool will come with a thick wall plastic guard installed (4" PVC sewer pipe end cap). I suggest it be retained for storage protection.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
wedg1e said:
Any ideas on costs to ship to UK?
Give me a town and postal code. I just tried to get a quote using www.ups.com and it wouldn't proceed without a specific postal code for the destination. Or you can try it from your end using a shipping point of:
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401
USA.
The tools will ship from Dave C's employer's account at a more favorable rate than walk-in trade would get. I'll ask Dave to figure a rate to London as an example.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
could someone please send me a pic of the rear seal centering tool too?
Thanks
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
Thanks
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
lotusse89 said:
could someone please send me a pic of the rear seal centering tool too?
Thanks
Travis
Vulcan Grey 89SE
www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/
check your email..
. Esprit2 said:
Any ideas on costs to ship to UK?
Give me a town and postal code. I just tried to get a quote using www.ups.com and it wouldn't proceed without a specific postal code for the destination. Or you can try it from your end using a shipping point of:
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401
USA.
The tools will ship from Dave C's employer's account at a more favorable rate than walk-in trade would get. I'll ask Dave to figure a rate to London as an example.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
I guessed size, weight and value ($50) and it said $71.45!!My seal tool (ie, the prototype) has been out on loan so I haven't been able to run around getting shipping quotes on it. But it just came back. In a 7" x 7" x 4.5" box with bubble wrap padding it weighs 4lbs 1oz.
As an example of international shipping rates I chose London. The best rate I've found is actually Parcel Post by the US Postal Service. $32, 4-10 days, no insurance, no tracking. Tracking & insurance are available for small additional charges.
UPS gets way out of control for anything over a pound. FedEx is better, but still high. Both have the advantage if you want fast service (like 2-day), but both are considerably more expensive than plain old Parcel Post.
US shipping would be $8.64 Parcel Post. But US domestic is where UPS/FedEx have an advantage over the USPS. Dave C. hasn't dropped a number yet but indicates he can ship from his employer's dock via UPS with insurance and tracking for less than Parcel Post. We'll advise the final shipping cost when we ask for payment, but start wrapping your head around that $8 number... or a bit less.
The order rate has slowed to a trickle (35 so far, and one more thinking) so we'll probably pull the plug soon.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Minnesota, USA
As an example of international shipping rates I chose London. The best rate I've found is actually Parcel Post by the US Postal Service. $32, 4-10 days, no insurance, no tracking. Tracking & insurance are available for small additional charges.
UPS gets way out of control for anything over a pound. FedEx is better, but still high. Both have the advantage if you want fast service (like 2-day), but both are considerably more expensive than plain old Parcel Post.
US shipping would be $8.64 Parcel Post. But US domestic is where UPS/FedEx have an advantage over the USPS. Dave C. hasn't dropped a number yet but indicates he can ship from his employer's dock via UPS with insurance and tracking for less than Parcel Post. We'll advise the final shipping cost when we ask for payment, but start wrapping your head around that $8 number... or a bit less.
The order rate has slowed to a trickle (35 so far, and one more thinking) so we'll probably pull the plug soon.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Minnesota, USA
Hey guys, I am replacing my clutch on my 91 SE, and I would like to replace the seals as well.
Does anyone have a centering tool for the clutch and for the seals that I can buy, or borrow (with a deposit of course..)
I really could use those tools to chance all the stuff I need to change
geo_allino@yahoo.com
e-mail me if anyone can help.
Thanks George
Does anyone have a centering tool for the clutch and for the seals that I can buy, or borrow (with a deposit of course..)
I really could use those tools to chance all the stuff I need to change
geo_allino@yahoo.com
e-mail me if anyone can help.
Thanks George
George,
You don't need a special clutch alignment tool. I use a generic one from the local parts store... Plews brand I believe. It's a rod with a threaded end and a selection of screw-on sleeves in diameters to fit most applications. It included sleeves to fit Lotus engine's I've worked on. A tapered slide fits over the rod and engages the clutch disk's ID.
We are still accepting orders for rear seal tools, but deliveries wouldn't be for a few weeks. If you need it now, talk to Jeff at JAE. If you buy the parts from him, he has a tool rental program. It covers most Lotus Special Tools.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
You don't need a special clutch alignment tool. I use a generic one from the local parts store... Plews brand I believe. It's a rod with a threaded end and a selection of screw-on sleeves in diameters to fit most applications. It included sleeves to fit Lotus engine's I've worked on. A tapered slide fits over the rod and engages the clutch disk's ID.
We are still accepting orders for rear seal tools, but deliveries wouldn't be for a few weeks. If you need it now, talk to Jeff at JAE. If you buy the parts from him, he has a tool rental program. It covers most Lotus Special Tools.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
I know this is the Red Neck way of doing things but when you live in Mississippi tools can be are hard to find. When I installed my new front and rear seals I took an empty 2-liter plastic coke bottle, cut off the top and bottom. Rolled it to fit the diameter of the crank, slip the new seal on, greased it and slid the seal on like a hot knife thru butter. Done this on every make of car you can imagine. Works everytime. Seals never leak.
louis
'83 Turbo
louis
'83 Turbo
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