Further to my Clutch/Gear box woes
Discussion
Further to my clutch problems here
Firstly thanks for the help so far.
Here's what I've done so far
----------------------------
I decided to modify a flywheel puller to take place of the slave cylinder so that I can get a better idea of what is going on. What I have found is if I screw the clutch in by hand using the puller then it mostly works ok, though the gear box is a quite notchy and I'm unable to get reverse. I have found if I wind it in a little bit too far, say about 1mm too far then it becomes impossible to get gears. I don't understand this, why would this be?
This I think is why my problems have begun (the clutch lines should now be completely purged of air) - when I checked the clutch pedal adjustment the travel is about 10/15 mm further than the service manual states. Having reduced the travel I can get gears okish but am really struggling to get reverse with the engine running. It is fine with the engine stopped.
Now, I'm summising that my clutch plates might be sticking on the input shaft?
I've managed to engage the clutch fork with the slave cylinder and it's mounting completly removed by the use of a scissor jack pressing against the cross member. I can see both pressure plates (back plate and intermediate) relax as the clutch fork is wound in. So I'm guessing if I have a sticky clutch plate it must the one mounted closest to the flywheel?
I'm thinking along the lines of undoing all the mounting bolts for the gear box and the shunting it back in forth (in situ) away from and towards the engine half an inch or so? My theorising being that this should pull (and hence free) the input shaft spline from the clutch plates?
Can someone slightly less crazy than me comment on the above?
Help, suggestions and accusations of varying degrees of insanity would all be gratefully received.
>>> Edited by zhastaph on Saturday 12th March 16:05
Firstly thanks for the help so far.
Here's what I've done so far
----------------------------
I decided to modify a flywheel puller to take place of the slave cylinder so that I can get a better idea of what is going on. What I have found is if I screw the clutch in by hand using the puller then it mostly works ok, though the gear box is a quite notchy and I'm unable to get reverse. I have found if I wind it in a little bit too far, say about 1mm too far then it becomes impossible to get gears. I don't understand this, why would this be?
This I think is why my problems have begun (the clutch lines should now be completely purged of air) - when I checked the clutch pedal adjustment the travel is about 10/15 mm further than the service manual states. Having reduced the travel I can get gears okish but am really struggling to get reverse with the engine running. It is fine with the engine stopped.
Now, I'm summising that my clutch plates might be sticking on the input shaft?
I've managed to engage the clutch fork with the slave cylinder and it's mounting completly removed by the use of a scissor jack pressing against the cross member. I can see both pressure plates (back plate and intermediate) relax as the clutch fork is wound in. So I'm guessing if I have a sticky clutch plate it must the one mounted closest to the flywheel?
I'm thinking along the lines of undoing all the mounting bolts for the gear box and the shunting it back in forth (in situ) away from and towards the engine half an inch or so? My theorising being that this should pull (and hence free) the input shaft spline from the clutch plates?
Can someone slightly less crazy than me comment on the above?
Help, suggestions and accusations of varying degrees of insanity would all be gratefully received.
>>> Edited by zhastaph on Saturday 12th March 16:05
if the clutch is dragging with the pedal in, I think you can check this easily with the car on a lift.
lift the car, run the engine, ( idle) select a gear and hold the clutch in.
If the wheels want to turn you are not releasing..
You can check the amount of drag by seeing how many clicks of the handbrake stop the wheels from turning..leave the handbrake in that position
then stop the engine and try to turn the wheels.. the effort to turn the wheel will be close to the dragging force of the clutch (yes yes static vs dynamic friction aside)
If it were me I might wrestle with the turning tires to see how much drag there is but with all the liability concerns caused by the 'mericans... i dont recomment this publically
Bruce
S4s in CANADA... we dont quite sue everyone here yet..
lift the car, run the engine, ( idle) select a gear and hold the clutch in.
If the wheels want to turn you are not releasing..
You can check the amount of drag by seeing how many clicks of the handbrake stop the wheels from turning..leave the handbrake in that position
then stop the engine and try to turn the wheels.. the effort to turn the wheel will be close to the dragging force of the clutch (yes yes static vs dynamic friction aside)
If it were me I might wrestle with the turning tires to see how much drag there is but with all the liability concerns caused by the 'mericans... i dont recomment this publically
Bruce
S4s in CANADA... we dont quite sue everyone here yet..
I'm in the UK anyway so wont be sueing quite yet 
I'd thought much the same, lifting the ass and seeng how much the wheels turn whilst in gear with my foot on the clutch, but TBH I'm 100% certain the clutch is dragging - it's knowing what to do about it is the problem.
Reverse is the classic sign, engine running foot on the clutch it wont go in, turn the engine off and it goes in fine.
I'd thought much the same, lifting the ass and seeng how much the wheels turn whilst in gear with my foot on the clutch, but TBH I'm 100% certain the clutch is dragging - it's knowing what to do about it is the problem.
Reverse is the classic sign, engine running foot on the clutch it wont go in, turn the engine off and it goes in fine.
I don't know if this is relevent but have a read..
I have an S4s to which I fitted a new clutch. The previous clutch had been dragging, as well as slipping. When I fitted the new clutch I checked the pedal travel like you did. If the clutch is adjusted so that there is too much travel this can result in the release bearing pressing too far onto the diaphragm spring, which causes the diaphragm spring fingers to press directly onto the friction disk, causing friction and non-disengagement.
My over travel also resulted in the release fork fouling the bellhousing, and since it was still being pushed by the pushrod, caused the fork to bend as well. Even when the adjustment was reduced the damage was done.
As I say this was on an S4s. I would expect the principle of the bearing/diaphragm spring to be the same, although the fork bending may be completely different.
I Hope that this helps
Glyn
I have an S4s to which I fitted a new clutch. The previous clutch had been dragging, as well as slipping. When I fitted the new clutch I checked the pedal travel like you did. If the clutch is adjusted so that there is too much travel this can result in the release bearing pressing too far onto the diaphragm spring, which causes the diaphragm spring fingers to press directly onto the friction disk, causing friction and non-disengagement.
My over travel also resulted in the release fork fouling the bellhousing, and since it was still being pushed by the pushrod, caused the fork to bend as well. Even when the adjustment was reduced the damage was done.
As I say this was on an S4s. I would expect the principle of the bearing/diaphragm spring to be the same, although the fork bending may be completely different.
I Hope that this helps
Glyn
I did the clutch in my V8 for most of the same symptoms you are having. The first clutch disc spline was rusted to the input shaft spline and the second disc spline was partially rusted. Simple fix overall... I had a new clutch so I replaced it.
The thread was recent and links to pics. It was in the past few weeks.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
The thread was recent and links to pics. It was in the past few weeks.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
TBH it's your thread that got me thinking and got me started down this God awful road in the first place ..........
YOU ARE TO BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been looking at it tonight, and I reckon with some fiddling I'm gonna be able to dismantle the clutch pack in situ at which point the box should just drop off.
YOU ARE TO BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been looking at it tonight, and I reckon with some fiddling I'm gonna be able to dismantle the clutch pack in situ at which point the box should just drop off.
zhastaph said:
TBH it's your thread that got me thinking and got me started down this God awful road in the first place ..........
YOU ARE TO BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been looking at it tonight, and I reckon with some fiddling I'm gonna be able to dismantle the clutch pack in situ at which point the box should just drop off.
It's not a bad job actually, I slipped it out the rear from underneath. Once the gearbox is out of the way you have full access to the clutch assembly. I suggest you remove the clutch pack which will easily allow cleaning of the first disc spline. The second disc is actually captive between the two presure plates. I suggest you lift the pressure plates and second disc as an assembly out of the clutch housing (you have no choice really) and clean the second disc spline without further dismantling, otherwise you will need a collection of parts to reassemble. Note that the clutch pack is color striped on one part for proper alignment of the pieces. You will need a proper clutch spine alignment tool to get the clutch pack reinstalled. Also be certain to check the pilot bearing. I used NLGI #2 grease (red moly) as per the service notes on the splines, the fork pivot and the release bearing guide.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
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