Wheels for s1/s2
Discussion
Sverre,
There are a lot of cars that use the 4x100mm bolt pattern. The biggest problem is finding one style of wheel that comes in both positive and negative offsets in the right values for the Esprit. It would be easier to find a style that fits the front, then make a spacer for the rear to make up for the wrong offset.
Phill Miller designed a spacer and posted it in the files section on the S1S2S3Owners mailing list on YahooGroups. Download that as a starting point and adjust the thickness to give the offset you need.
Note that the center bore of S1 and S2 wheels are different. Phill's spacer was drawn for an S2 but the center bore and boss diameters can be easily changed for the S1 hubs if required. The bolt pattern is 4x100mm for both the S1 and S2.
As long as you're going to all the effort, choose a wheel diameter that will get you into some reasonable tire selections. There's not much of anything available for 14" rims anymore.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Monday 7th March 22:02
There are a lot of cars that use the 4x100mm bolt pattern. The biggest problem is finding one style of wheel that comes in both positive and negative offsets in the right values for the Esprit. It would be easier to find a style that fits the front, then make a spacer for the rear to make up for the wrong offset.
Phill Miller designed a spacer and posted it in the files section on the S1S2S3Owners mailing list on YahooGroups. Download that as a starting point and adjust the thickness to give the offset you need.
Note that the center bore of S1 and S2 wheels are different. Phill's spacer was drawn for an S2 but the center bore and boss diameters can be easily changed for the S1 hubs if required. The bolt pattern is 4x100mm for both the S1 and S2.
As long as you're going to all the effort, choose a wheel diameter that will get you into some reasonable tire selections. There's not much of anything available for 14" rims anymore.
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Monday 7th March 22:02
Do you have an S1 or S2? They aren't the same. The S1 wheels are not hubcentric, but the S2 wheels are. The diameter of the hub's center boss is different from the S1 to the S2... (?) I believe it's larger on the S1.
The S1 and S2 don't use Toyota parts... Yoda parts didn't come into play until the early Turbo. The S1/S2 front suspension is based on some Opel Ascona bits... the rear suspension is pretty much original Lotus.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
The S1 and S2 don't use Toyota parts... Yoda parts didn't come into play until the early Turbo. The S1/S2 front suspension is based on some Opel Ascona bits... the rear suspension is pretty much original Lotus.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
The front is indeed Opel Ascona. The offset front and rear is different and I would be reluctant to use spacers for such a difference.
The actual offset should be available from a tyre shop.
My car is fitted with 225 R15 front and 245 R15 rear. The wider 15 inch are getting harder to get.
The rims on my car are Simmons Versa.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15147&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
The actual offset should be available from a tyre shop.
My car is fitted with 225 R15 front and 245 R15 rear. The wider 15 inch are getting harder to get.
The rims on my car are Simmons Versa.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15147&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
sstokken said:
Hi.
I have a late s1 (78) So from what I understand it shoulden't be hubsentric.
It's the wheels that will be hub-centric or not, not the car. The wheel you choose will be designed to be mounted one way or the other... go with the wheel manufacturer's suggestion. If a hub-centric wheel doesn't fit your S1 hub properly, then either have it bored or inserted as required. Or move on to another wheel.
Going from 14" to 15" wheels is like jumping from the frying pan to the fire. Performance tires in the appropriate sizes are becoming difficult to find for both rim diameters.
:-(
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Compared to the S2, the S1 didn't turn in as well and had more tendency to understeer. The main difference between the two cars that account for the S2's improved handling is the wheels. Both used the same tires, but the S1 had narrower rims... especially at the front.
The following long answer doesn't directly answer your question since I don't have the specific S1 size data. However, if you are going to look for aftermarket wheels, I strongly suggest that you look for S2 widths or wider. Don't put money and effort into S1 rim widths.
Esprit S2 Alloy Wheel Dimensions
These numbers are not factory spec’s, I measured 1980 Esprit S2’s wheels. Take it for what it's worth.
S2 FRONT:
Spec Size: 14 x 7.0 inch
Bolt Pattern 4 x 100 mm (100 mm = 3 15/16 inch)
Back Space 5.125 inch (130.2 mm)
Front Space 2.875 inch
Total Width 8.000 inch
Offset, inch +1.125 inch
Offset, mm +28.58 mm (RWS +30)
S2 REAR:
Spec Size: 14 x 7.5 inch
Bolt Pattern 4 x 100 mm
Back Space 3.375 inch (85.7 mm)
Front Space 5.125 inch
Total Width 8.500 inch
Offset, inch -0.875 inch
Offset, mm -22.22 mm (RWS -20)
RWS = Racing Wheel Services. They quoted slightly different offset numbers.
Off set is based on the "inside" rim width measured between the inner faces... the areas where the tire bead seats. One half that width is considered the centerline width of the rim. Offset is the distance from that centerline to the mounting face (the surface that touches the car's hub).
Offset conventions vary, so be sure to communicate what you want very clearly. Particularly if you mail order a set of wheels. As used above, Positive (+) offset moves the wheel's center web out closer to the outer face of the rim. FWD cars use positive offset wheels. Larger positive offset will narrow the car's track.
Negative offset moves the web inwards, away from the outer face of the rim. The wheel looks deeper. Older RWD cars tended to use negative offset wheels. Larger negative offset will widen the car's track.
Talking in terms of backspace and front space usually eliminates the potential for mis-communicating the offset you want when ordering wheels. Front Space is the distance from the mounting face of the wheel to the front "outer" face of the rim. Similarly, backspace is the distance from the mounting face to the back face of the rim.
The difference between RWS's offset numbers and mine is probably due to the fact that I measured front space and back space and calculated the offset based upon the maximum outside width of each rim. The front rim flange is not the same thickness as the rear rim flange. Also, there are raised decorative lips running around the perimeter of the rim flanges, and the lip on the front flange is taller than the similar lip on the rear flange. Those factors would throw off the offset calculations.
I didn't measure the width between the inside surfaces of the flanges, because they are not parallel. The width you get is dependent upon the depth at which you take the measurement. Not knowing the correct measuring depth, I opted to measure the outside width.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Friday 11th March 18:17
The following long answer doesn't directly answer your question since I don't have the specific S1 size data. However, if you are going to look for aftermarket wheels, I strongly suggest that you look for S2 widths or wider. Don't put money and effort into S1 rim widths.
Esprit S2 Alloy Wheel Dimensions
These numbers are not factory spec’s, I measured 1980 Esprit S2’s wheels. Take it for what it's worth.
S2 FRONT:
Spec Size: 14 x 7.0 inch
Bolt Pattern 4 x 100 mm (100 mm = 3 15/16 inch)
Back Space 5.125 inch (130.2 mm)
Front Space 2.875 inch
Total Width 8.000 inch
Offset, inch +1.125 inch
Offset, mm +28.58 mm (RWS +30)
S2 REAR:
Spec Size: 14 x 7.5 inch
Bolt Pattern 4 x 100 mm
Back Space 3.375 inch (85.7 mm)
Front Space 5.125 inch
Total Width 8.500 inch
Offset, inch -0.875 inch
Offset, mm -22.22 mm (RWS -20)
RWS = Racing Wheel Services. They quoted slightly different offset numbers.
Off set is based on the "inside" rim width measured between the inner faces... the areas where the tire bead seats. One half that width is considered the centerline width of the rim. Offset is the distance from that centerline to the mounting face (the surface that touches the car's hub).
Offset conventions vary, so be sure to communicate what you want very clearly. Particularly if you mail order a set of wheels. As used above, Positive (+) offset moves the wheel's center web out closer to the outer face of the rim. FWD cars use positive offset wheels. Larger positive offset will narrow the car's track.
Negative offset moves the web inwards, away from the outer face of the rim. The wheel looks deeper. Older RWD cars tended to use negative offset wheels. Larger negative offset will widen the car's track.
Talking in terms of backspace and front space usually eliminates the potential for mis-communicating the offset you want when ordering wheels. Front Space is the distance from the mounting face of the wheel to the front "outer" face of the rim. Similarly, backspace is the distance from the mounting face to the back face of the rim.
The difference between RWS's offset numbers and mine is probably due to the fact that I measured front space and back space and calculated the offset based upon the maximum outside width of each rim. The front rim flange is not the same thickness as the rear rim flange. Also, there are raised decorative lips running around the perimeter of the rim flanges, and the lip on the front flange is taller than the similar lip on the rear flange. Those factors would throw off the offset calculations.
I didn't measure the width between the inside surfaces of the flanges, because they are not parallel. The width you get is dependent upon the depth at which you take the measurement. Not knowing the correct measuring depth, I opted to measure the outside width.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Friday 11th March 18:17
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