2003 Esprit, new, stalls at stops
Discussion
Hi All,
I just bought one of the last of the Esprits after it had sat in a dealer's showroom (or outside in the lot - hope not) for the last 18 months or so. Though it has less than 600 miles on the odometer, a hundred of which I've put on myself, once the car has warmed up it almost always stalls when I pull up to a stop sign or signal.
The service tech at the dealer where I bought it tells me that prior to putting the car on the delivery truck he completely checked it out and "reset the computer chip" that regulates the engine's idle speed. He tells me that once I've put a couple hundred miles on the car it will 'learn' my driving habits and not stall when it comes to a stop as it's doing now - a VERY frustrating problem to experience in a new (and fairly expensive) car. I'm not a gearhead so I'm not sure what he means by all of this but I thought I'd see if anyone had any suggestions or reassurances for me with regard to this problem. In any event, it is under warranty for another 3 years so I'm not terribly worried. If it keeps up I'll address it when I drop the car off for its 1500 mile service.
Another irritation is that when I have the AM radio on, I will get interference over the speakers (a loud buzzing sound) if I then turn on the headlights. British electronics at their best! ;-) This was a problem on a 2000 Esprit that I once owned, though at the time I thought it was just a problem with that particular car. Imagine my surprise when I see the problem remains in the same model 3 years later!
Thanks for any information.
D. Snider
rdsnider@aol.com
I just bought one of the last of the Esprits after it had sat in a dealer's showroom (or outside in the lot - hope not) for the last 18 months or so. Though it has less than 600 miles on the odometer, a hundred of which I've put on myself, once the car has warmed up it almost always stalls when I pull up to a stop sign or signal.
The service tech at the dealer where I bought it tells me that prior to putting the car on the delivery truck he completely checked it out and "reset the computer chip" that regulates the engine's idle speed. He tells me that once I've put a couple hundred miles on the car it will 'learn' my driving habits and not stall when it comes to a stop as it's doing now - a VERY frustrating problem to experience in a new (and fairly expensive) car. I'm not a gearhead so I'm not sure what he means by all of this but I thought I'd see if anyone had any suggestions or reassurances for me with regard to this problem. In any event, it is under warranty for another 3 years so I'm not terribly worried. If it keeps up I'll address it when I drop the car off for its 1500 mile service.
Another irritation is that when I have the AM radio on, I will get interference over the speakers (a loud buzzing sound) if I then turn on the headlights. British electronics at their best! ;-) This was a problem on a 2000 Esprit that I once owned, though at the time I thought it was just a problem with that particular car. Imagine my surprise when I see the problem remains in the same model 3 years later!
Thanks for any information.
D. Snider
rdsnider@aol.com
Hi D,
As your car has sat for a while, let me first suggest to replace the battery as it's not long for this world in general once having sat that long. I bought a 2000MY new which was also about 16 months old with 142 miles. The battery went belly up while sitting in the garage after 2 months of ownership and frequent driving. Get an Optima Yellowtop.
I would also suggest you remove the fuse for the ECM which is in the rear trunk fuse panel (just forward from the battery when facing the rear). Your owner's manual will have a drawing and help you locate the 5-amp fuse. Remove it and let the car sit for about 30 minutes. With the car cold, replace the fuse and start the engine. Do NOT touch the gas pedal during this time. In short, let the engine idle till the cooling fans have engaged a couple times from the engine water temp hitting the 100 mark. This should learn idle pretty well and allow for many of the internal ECM tests to complete.
Next, go our for a drive using some light pedal for a bit and ensure that it drops down to a decent idle after a bit, possibly 8-10 seconds. Then start driving it more briskly and excerise the pedal and RPM range so the ECM can learn some ranges and build a soft map. All should be fine once this is done. Note that upgrading to the High-Torque ECM is a nice upgrade that is Lotus engineered/supplied and does not void your warranty. It also seems to improve some idling characteristics. I've noticed it drops to a steady idle quicker than the stock ECM did.
As for static noise and such, you might have an alternator problem, but I would replace the battery and start from there. Note that when you disconnect the battery, you're going to get some alarm bursts which is normal and will continue until the internal alarm power source is depleted or you re-attach the battery power.
Good luck with your purchase.... outside of the center exhaust and some cosmetic stuff, there's near zero difference between a 2000 or a 2003 for drivetrain, suspension, brakes, etc.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
As your car has sat for a while, let me first suggest to replace the battery as it's not long for this world in general once having sat that long. I bought a 2000MY new which was also about 16 months old with 142 miles. The battery went belly up while sitting in the garage after 2 months of ownership and frequent driving. Get an Optima Yellowtop.
I would also suggest you remove the fuse for the ECM which is in the rear trunk fuse panel (just forward from the battery when facing the rear). Your owner's manual will have a drawing and help you locate the 5-amp fuse. Remove it and let the car sit for about 30 minutes. With the car cold, replace the fuse and start the engine. Do NOT touch the gas pedal during this time. In short, let the engine idle till the cooling fans have engaged a couple times from the engine water temp hitting the 100 mark. This should learn idle pretty well and allow for many of the internal ECM tests to complete.
Next, go our for a drive using some light pedal for a bit and ensure that it drops down to a decent idle after a bit, possibly 8-10 seconds. Then start driving it more briskly and excerise the pedal and RPM range so the ECM can learn some ranges and build a soft map. All should be fine once this is done. Note that upgrading to the High-Torque ECM is a nice upgrade that is Lotus engineered/supplied and does not void your warranty. It also seems to improve some idling characteristics. I've noticed it drops to a steady idle quicker than the stock ECM did.
As for static noise and such, you might have an alternator problem, but I would replace the battery and start from there. Note that when you disconnect the battery, you're going to get some alarm bursts which is normal and will continue until the internal alarm power source is depleted or you re-attach the battery power.
Good luck with your purchase.... outside of the center exhaust and some cosmetic stuff, there's near zero difference between a 2000 or a 2003 for drivetrain, suspension, brakes, etc.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Whilst it's true what your dealer has told you about the car "learning" your driving style, it should not keep stalling. When the ECU is reset, for the next 50 miles or so it learns various parameters and sensor settings and the like. One thing it wont do in that time is let you have full boost, for example. It's also possible to reset the idle control ( IAC ) if the position of it gets out of sync with what the ECU thinks. I've reset mine on my last Esprit ( GT3 ) several times and whilst the above is true it never caused it to stall everytime I stopped.
I'd take it back and tell them to fix the problem, as the stuff about the ECU "learning" is just clouding the issue.
Adrian
Sport350
I'd take it back and tell them to fix the problem, as the stuff about the ECU "learning" is just clouding the issue.
Adrian
Sport350
hi there i would take it to the dealer,but for the battery try doing a load test if it fails,replace it,i would replace it anyway with an interstate battery.replace the eng oil and filter first 500-750 miles with mobil 1.i have a 03 1/2 esprit and changed the oil at 500 miles for its first oil change.what dealership did you purchase the car from?what color is
it,can you e mail at blkviper30@aol.com curious of what you paid for the car.i was told the warranty is 2 years on new esprits.
talk to you later
adam
it,can you e mail at blkviper30@aol.com curious of what you paid for the car.i was told the warranty is 2 years on new esprits.
talk to you later
adam
Thanks to all for the prompt posts. I'll replace the battery first and then take it for a spin. If no improvement, will then pull the ECM fuse and start over. If the problem remains, I'll let you all know.
While I'm posting - does anyone know a knowledgeable contact person at Lotus USA or the Lotus dealership in Atlanta who might be able to answer the same questions? I'll eventually be taking the car there (not where I purchased it) for its 1500 mile service and would like to let a reliable service technician know the situation before I make the drive - hopefully to save a little downtime while it's in their possession, if at all possible. Thanks for any info and I'll be in touch.
Best,
Dan
While I'm posting - does anyone know a knowledgeable contact person at Lotus USA or the Lotus dealership in Atlanta who might be able to answer the same questions? I'll eventually be taking the car there (not where I purchased it) for its 1500 mile service and would like to let a reliable service technician know the situation before I make the drive - hopefully to save a little downtime while it's in their possession, if at all possible. Thanks for any info and I'll be in touch.
Best,
Dan
Personally,
If I purchased a 70K toy from a dealer (even last years model) I would be announcing myself quite loudly if the thing tanked every time I let off the throttle.
Mind you, I am miffed at Ford right now over the fact that my F150 could burn because of a cruise control issue. Hopefully it does b4 they fix it.
Lovely car you have, but by purchasing new or nearly new, it should be delivered to you fully sorted. I'd drop the thing off complete with all keys and ask them to send it back once they've got things figured out. I am sure your intent on purchase was for something to enjoy; not a project car/fixer upper.
Steve
If I purchased a 70K toy from a dealer (even last years model) I would be announcing myself quite loudly if the thing tanked every time I let off the throttle.
Mind you, I am miffed at Ford right now over the fact that my F150 could burn because of a cruise control issue. Hopefully it does b4 they fix it.
Lovely car you have, but by purchasing new or nearly new, it should be delivered to you fully sorted. I'd drop the thing off complete with all keys and ask them to send it back once they've got things figured out. I am sure your intent on purchase was for something to enjoy; not a project car/fixer upper.
Steve
Dan,
Just one thing, if you change the battery you are in essence resetting the ECU as the power will be disconnected to it the same as pulling the fuse. So go through the learning procedure that KM described above and if that doesn't solve the problem then get a dealer to resolve it.
My 2 cents.....
Good luck,
Jim
Just one thing, if you change the battery you are in essence resetting the ECU as the power will be disconnected to it the same as pulling the fuse. So go through the learning procedure that KM described above and if that doesn't solve the problem then get a dealer to resolve it.
My 2 cents.....
Good luck,
Jim
Well folks, I replaced the battery (erasing the ECM in the process), let it warm up in the garage and then took it for a 60 mile spin and still... it dies when it comes to a stop, probably 50% of the time.
I would definitely be one to drop it off at the dealer, if not for the fact that the dealer is about 600 miles away and I had the car delivered after closing the deal over the phone. Even more frustrating is the fact that the sales guy assured me that the car had been checked out by the service dept from 'top to bottom' before the car was placed on the carrier. Believe me, if this problem is not resolved soon (probably in Atlanta), I'll be happy to post the name of the dealer here... for now I'll try to be patient and see what happens. Unfortunately, even Atlanta is a 3 hour drive.
Any other suggestions out there? Any ideas who I should talk to in Atlanta before I make the trip?
Thanks again for any and all help,
Dan
I would definitely be one to drop it off at the dealer, if not for the fact that the dealer is about 600 miles away and I had the car delivered after closing the deal over the phone. Even more frustrating is the fact that the sales guy assured me that the car had been checked out by the service dept from 'top to bottom' before the car was placed on the carrier. Believe me, if this problem is not resolved soon (probably in Atlanta), I'll be happy to post the name of the dealer here... for now I'll try to be patient and see what happens. Unfortunately, even Atlanta is a 3 hour drive.
Any other suggestions out there? Any ideas who I should talk to in Atlanta before I make the trip?
Thanks again for any and all help,
Dan
Dan,
You said you let it warm up in the garage and then went for a 60 mile spin.
What exactly did you do? How long did it warm up in the garage and how many fan cycles did it go through? With the a/c on or off?
The 60 mile spin was that stop and go or on the highway at a constant speed?
Just curious as this subject has come up before on occasion and usually is resolved with the correct idle learn procedure.
Jim
You said you let it warm up in the garage and then went for a 60 mile spin.
What exactly did you do? How long did it warm up in the garage and how many fan cycles did it go through? With the a/c on or off?
The 60 mile spin was that stop and go or on the highway at a constant speed?
Just curious as this subject has come up before on occasion and usually is resolved with the correct idle learn procedure.
Jim
Jim - The car has been sitting for a couple days; today I replaced the battery with an Optima Yellowtop, then started the car without hitting the gas; it started up fine, and I left it to warm up on its own. I can't say how many times the fans cycled, but the car was left alone for about 8 - 10 minutes before I took it for a trial spin. Of note, initially, right after ignition it was revving at about 1200 RPMS, but after what seemed like only a couple minutes it slowed down to about 900 on its own. It took it out soon after that with the A/C running for 5-10 minutes (before it got too cold in the car) and by the time I had put a total of about 35 miles of easy non-aggressive backroad stop and start driving (going up and down through all 5 gears) it seemed to be running a bit more reliably though it was still stalling - about every 4th stop, instead of each time. I drove home, parked it again, and grabbed a bite to eat before taking it out an hour later. Now it seems to be stalling as badly as before. So far I've got $75K and a new battery in the car and I'm more than a bit frustrated. :-(
Dan,
Seems a step in the right direction at least. Exactly where are you located in the Southeast? Is the closest dealer that far? If the car doesn't develop a decent idle you might have something else wrong with the car like a flakey connection, gummy injectors from sitting with old gas.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Seems a step in the right direction at least. Exactly where are you located in the Southeast? Is the closest dealer that far? If the car doesn't develop a decent idle you might have something else wrong with the car like a flakey connection, gummy injectors from sitting with old gas.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
KM, I'm in South Carolina just across the state line from Augusta, Georgia. The closest dealer is in Atlanta, probably 170 miles from here. Lotus USA is also headquartered there if I'm not mistaken so between the two facilities I'm sure someone can come up with a solution - hopefully without having to leave it overnight (though you can bet I'm going to test drive it around town before I head for home). It would be nice if they would provide me with a loaner car so I can at least spend some time at Lennox Mall or grab some Thai food at Nan while I'm in town, though I know that's probably not going to happen.
Daniel,
The new V8 Esprits like to do that (mine also ;o)
If there is nothing else wrong with the engine itself it definitely has to do with the idle-rpm-learn procedure. Especially with the A/C-ON-OFF. When the AC-compressor is running there should not be a problem, but when it stops while idling the stalling occurs.
The only way to get rid of that is to let the ECU learn the idle from new with the A/C-ON ! Please follow this procedure:
- disconnect battery for some time
- reconnect battery
- start car with A/C-OFF
- get the car warmed up thoroughly
- switch A/C-ON (you will notice that the idle rises a little bit) You will also notice when the AC-compressor switches off the idle will drop and maybe the engine will stall. This actually is the problem. Whenever the compressor switches OFF the idle wants to drop and does not know the correct A/F-mixture (generally its too lean) and therefore it dies.
- drive around and whenever it stalls (or before it stalls) DONOT press the throttle to keep it from stalling !!!
- When it stalls just start it again with throttle NOT pressed !!!!
You will experience that after quite a long time (may take two days cruising) the ECU has learned the idle and will not stall any more.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
The new V8 Esprits like to do that (mine also ;o)
If there is nothing else wrong with the engine itself it definitely has to do with the idle-rpm-learn procedure. Especially with the A/C-ON-OFF. When the AC-compressor is running there should not be a problem, but when it stops while idling the stalling occurs.
The only way to get rid of that is to let the ECU learn the idle from new with the A/C-ON ! Please follow this procedure:
- disconnect battery for some time
- reconnect battery
- start car with A/C-OFF
- get the car warmed up thoroughly
- switch A/C-ON (you will notice that the idle rises a little bit) You will also notice when the AC-compressor switches off the idle will drop and maybe the engine will stall. This actually is the problem. Whenever the compressor switches OFF the idle wants to drop and does not know the correct A/F-mixture (generally its too lean) and therefore it dies.
- drive around and whenever it stalls (or before it stalls) DONOT press the throttle to keep it from stalling !!!
- When it stalls just start it again with throttle NOT pressed !!!!
You will experience that after quite a long time (may take two days cruising) the ECU has learned the idle and will not stall any more.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
Hi D.,
I live in Atlanta and purchased a 2001 V8 about 18 months ago from the local Lotus Dealership, North Point Motors. Sorry to hear about your troubles with the car. I would get the car serviced also, my car never did anything like what you are describing. I believe your first service is al 1K or 1.5K (look in your manual at service intervals). Someone said that Lotus used a special “break-in oil” for the first 1K/1.5K miles – I’m not sure whether that is true, but I figured I’m going to do what the manual says to do (plus the first service was free other than the cost of the oil filter). I get all my service done at the Lotus Dealership and here are my comments:
1. Make an appointment
2. They have loaner cars, but make sure they know you need one
3. They just moved into a new building and the service department looks very professional, but I haven’t used them since they moved in – I just hit 12K so I’m in need of a service too (6000 service runs about $500)
4. I had a couple of problems with my Lotus and they fixed it under warranty with no problems or questions
Let me know if you have any more questions.
JoeyO
I live in Atlanta and purchased a 2001 V8 about 18 months ago from the local Lotus Dealership, North Point Motors. Sorry to hear about your troubles with the car. I would get the car serviced also, my car never did anything like what you are describing. I believe your first service is al 1K or 1.5K (look in your manual at service intervals). Someone said that Lotus used a special “break-in oil” for the first 1K/1.5K miles – I’m not sure whether that is true, but I figured I’m going to do what the manual says to do (plus the first service was free other than the cost of the oil filter). I get all my service done at the Lotus Dealership and here are my comments:
1. Make an appointment
2. They have loaner cars, but make sure they know you need one
3. They just moved into a new building and the service department looks very professional, but I haven’t used them since they moved in – I just hit 12K so I’m in need of a service too (6000 service runs about $500)
4. I had a couple of problems with my Lotus and they fixed it under warranty with no problems or questions
Let me know if you have any more questions.
JoeyO
Hi All,
Just a quick follow-up note of thanks to everyone for their suggestions and taking the time to make them.
I took the advice of the posts and a few personal emails and replaced the battery (Optima Yellowtop) and then pulled the 5 amp ECM fuse. After letting it sit for a few hours I then restarted the car. I let it warm up and cycle through activation of the cooling fans three times, then turned on the A/C and let it idle for another 20 minutes, all without hitting the gas pedal even once. After that I took it for a drive through the country, A/C on and off, using all five gears. Since that day I've driven it a few more times and now it seems that the ECM has 're-mapped' itself and the problem with stalling seems to be a thing of the past.
Thanks again to all - this forum is a great resource!
Dan
Just a quick follow-up note of thanks to everyone for their suggestions and taking the time to make them.
I took the advice of the posts and a few personal emails and replaced the battery (Optima Yellowtop) and then pulled the 5 amp ECM fuse. After letting it sit for a few hours I then restarted the car. I let it warm up and cycle through activation of the cooling fans three times, then turned on the A/C and let it idle for another 20 minutes, all without hitting the gas pedal even once. After that I took it for a drive through the country, A/C on and off, using all five gears. Since that day I've driven it a few more times and now it seems that the ECM has 're-mapped' itself and the problem with stalling seems to be a thing of the past.
Thanks again to all - this forum is a great resource!
Dan
Jim, glad to hear you're well on your way. Current plan is start another session on the lift tomorrow. New tires ordered and the wheels should go out Monday or Tuesday to get refinished, then new rubber. Meanwhile the gearbox will be yanked, rebuilt with the Quaife and a new clutch. Good luck on yours.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Regards, KM
2000 V8
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