oil change on new engine
Discussion
hi all,
well have now had my new engine in the car (not recon, or rebuilt) i have covered 400 mile and am about to put another 200 on the clock this weekend when i visit my parents down in Banbury.
With regards to the question i was planning on changing the oil at 600 mile then again at 1200 this is both done with non synthetic oil so the engine beds in. Then i was going to give her the mobil 1 oil change at about 1800 miles. Do these oil changes sound ok? I have also put a few pics (only four at the moment) but will add lots more soon, at www.toyz-in-the-hood.co.uk
thanks all
p.s i shall be starting my new project in the summer which is going to be the awsome ultima gtr, any links that you may know of to forums etc on this car would be most appreciated.
>>> Edited by pauli on Friday 28th January 12:03
well have now had my new engine in the car (not recon, or rebuilt) i have covered 400 mile and am about to put another 200 on the clock this weekend when i visit my parents down in Banbury.
With regards to the question i was planning on changing the oil at 600 mile then again at 1200 this is both done with non synthetic oil so the engine beds in. Then i was going to give her the mobil 1 oil change at about 1800 miles. Do these oil changes sound ok? I have also put a few pics (only four at the moment) but will add lots more soon, at www.toyz-in-the-hood.co.uk
thanks all
p.s i shall be starting my new project in the summer which is going to be the awsome ultima gtr, any links that you may know of to forums etc on this car would be most appreciated.
>>> Edited by pauli on Friday 28th January 12:03
Everyone has their own recipe for engine break-in. What I do when I rebuild a motor is:
Quality regular oil initially, change at 200 miles.
Synthetic change at 1K miles
Scheduled changes with synthetic after that
New filter with each change.
You might also note that some of the higher end manufacturers like MB are shipping their cars new with full synthetic.
Dr.Hess
Quality regular oil initially, change at 200 miles.
Synthetic change at 1K miles
Scheduled changes with synthetic after that
New filter with each change.
You might also note that some of the higher end manufacturers like MB are shipping their cars new with full synthetic.
Dr.Hess
Seems americans treat oil like water - change it with every change of the wind..
Europeans treat it like gold.. my new Alfa in Italy went 200000 km on the factory fill of synthetic. the dealer refused to change it before it was due..
truth is like always somewhere in the middle....
and anyone who asks questions about oil on the internet is asking for trouble. there is a mountain of false information out there. and some VERY opinionated people too..
My word of advice is check it often.. the level is far more critical for long life than the type or drain interval. one afternoon of driving with a low level can undo 20 years of diligence..
Bruce
Europeans treat it like gold.. my new Alfa in Italy went 200000 km on the factory fill of synthetic. the dealer refused to change it before it was due..
truth is like always somewhere in the middle....
and anyone who asks questions about oil on the internet is asking for trouble. there is a mountain of false information out there. and some VERY opinionated people too..
My word of advice is check it often.. the level is far more critical for long life than the type or drain interval. one afternoon of driving with a low level can undo 20 years of diligence..
Bruce
Stories from the past . . . .
When I totally rebuilt a racing Fiat engine (early 1980's) we idled the engine for 10 minutes before the initial dyno run. When we had the oil tested (University of Waterloo) the results suggested the first 10 minutes generated far more engine wear than the dyno run. The truth is the oil had a metallic sheen (in the drain pan) to it after the 10 minute idle. And, yes, we washed the engine pieces very well. Yikes.
So if oil is cheap (and I believe it is) then change it frequently during bed-in. I do a change after 400 km using a high detergent conventional (mineral) oil. I use high detergent oil and I tend not to stop the motor in the first 400 km break-in. Then I do an oil change with premium mineral oil (and normal driving) and drain at, maybe, 3000 km on the odometer. After that I would go synthetic at 5000 km intervals . . . . more frequently actually because I do not do 5000 km in a summer season. I am sure a synthetic is good to go for 20,000 - 50,000 km range (modern VW's suggest 50,000 km intervals), but why risk it? Oil is cheap and Lotus engine parts are costly.
When I totally rebuilt a racing Fiat engine (early 1980's) we idled the engine for 10 minutes before the initial dyno run. When we had the oil tested (University of Waterloo) the results suggested the first 10 minutes generated far more engine wear than the dyno run. The truth is the oil had a metallic sheen (in the drain pan) to it after the 10 minute idle. And, yes, we washed the engine pieces very well. Yikes.
So if oil is cheap (and I believe it is) then change it frequently during bed-in. I do a change after 400 km using a high detergent conventional (mineral) oil. I use high detergent oil and I tend not to stop the motor in the first 400 km break-in. Then I do an oil change with premium mineral oil (and normal driving) and drain at, maybe, 3000 km on the odometer. After that I would go synthetic at 5000 km intervals . . . . more frequently actually because I do not do 5000 km in a summer season. I am sure a synthetic is good to go for 20,000 - 50,000 km range (modern VW's suggest 50,000 km intervals), but why risk it? Oil is cheap and Lotus engine parts are costly.
Straining the oil will not tell the complete story. If you really are curious as to what is going on inside the engine you need to run an acid test and a metals test. Exhaust gases leaking past the rings will eventually use up the additive package and starting creating acid in the oil. An atom absorption test (it's been several years but I think that's the correct name) will tell you how your bearings are doing. Following break-in, both numbers should be fairly consistent.
bojangles said:
. my new Alfa in Italy went 200000 km on the factory fill of synthetic. the dealer refused to change it before it was due..
Bruce
Hi,
You, and your dealer have demonstrated the falacy of using synthetic oil. True, the synth will maintain it's lubrication properties for an extended period, but Mobil strongly recommends a filter change at the normal intervals (3k-5k mi.). This usually requires adding up to 1 quart to replace that which came away with the filter.
This maintenance is essential to remove the sludge and particulates (metal and otherwise) from the engine. It's still economical since you leave 80% of the oil in the engine, but it's foolhardy not to change the filter regularly and then top the oil back up.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
This site has by far the best study and comparison of synthetic oil I've ever seen. It's very thorough and has some interesting information, such as..
"Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it."
This site has by far the best study and comparison of synthetic oil I've ever seen. It's very thorough and has some interesting information, such as..
"Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it."
thanks all for your help with this, i`ve not had a chance to read the site about the tests they have done with changing the oil on a regular basis, but looks loike some interesting reading. Well we have now had one oil change and should be ready for the second in about a week, then in with the mobil 1. That`s when the fun starts, well i have waited three years to get this on the road.
once again thankyou
once again thankyou
I question two things about the referenced URL. First, they mention TBN (total base number) and then ignore it. The additives that go into making the TBN for a motor oil protect the engine from acidic compounds that form during combustion. To some extent these compounds do enter the oil. If the additives are completely neutralized over time, then the acids will begin to attack the metal of the engine.
Second, the SAE paper referenced is entitled, "Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test." I seriously doubt that it draws the conclusion that changing oil more often damages the engine. I used to play basketball with one of the authors and will try to call him to clarify. If anyone is interested, the article is availabe from this link: www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_CD=2003-01-3119&PROD_TYP=PAPER&COMMON_SUCCESS=TRUE
If that doesn't work, go to www.sae.org and search for the ref. no.
Second, the SAE paper referenced is entitled, "Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test." I seriously doubt that it draws the conclusion that changing oil more often damages the engine. I used to play basketball with one of the authors and will try to call him to clarify. If anyone is interested, the article is availabe from this link: www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_CD=2003-01-3119&PROD_TYP=PAPER&COMMON_SUCCESS=TRUE
If that doesn't work, go to www.sae.org and search for the ref. no.
let me at least give the frequent change crowd a slap on the wrist for not even considering the environmental impact of an oil change.
there is no doubt the best protection for an engine is continuous fresh clean oil... and synthetic may be better at maintaining a good lubrication film under certain conditions.
what most people realise is that the wear on the engine is most likely to occur from low oil than poor quality oil.
BMWs in the 80's and 90's had engine oil level sensors and thoses engines outlasted the competition no matter what the maintenance schedule.
all it takes is a dealer to drive the car on a test drive (like in another recent post ) with low oil pressure. to undo years of religious changes...
if you are going to be anal about your engine oil.. I suggest level control has more bang for the buck and is better for the environment... frequency is set by the manufacturers. why second guess them?
there is no doubt the best protection for an engine is continuous fresh clean oil... and synthetic may be better at maintaining a good lubrication film under certain conditions.
what most people realise is that the wear on the engine is most likely to occur from low oil than poor quality oil.
BMWs in the 80's and 90's had engine oil level sensors and thoses engines outlasted the competition no matter what the maintenance schedule.
all it takes is a dealer to drive the car on a test drive (like in another recent post ) with low oil pressure. to undo years of religious changes...
if you are going to be anal about your engine oil.. I suggest level control has more bang for the buck and is better for the environment... frequency is set by the manufacturers. why second guess them?
what does that have to do with engine oil?
Are you trying to say what I said was wrong or just provoking things.. ?
sure car makers make mistake but I dont think decisions about oil drain intervals are made the same way as clutch hydraulic hoses.
For sure the red hose thing is surrounded with controversy also...
Are you trying to say what I said was wrong or just provoking things.. ?
sure car makers make mistake but I dont think decisions about oil drain intervals are made the same way as clutch hydraulic hoses.
For sure the red hose thing is surrounded with controversy also...
Sorry, just an example of why I don't particularly take the manufacturer's word as gospel.
The manufacturer writes the manual for many audiences. I suspect that a good part of the manual is written for the prime reason of lowering risk in the event of litigation. Remember when Ford SUVs were blowing out tires? Their first inquiry was whether or not tire pressures had been properly maintained.
Several years ago, Mobil suggested oil changes as long as 25k for Mobil 1. However, the manufactures nearly choked when they read that recommendation. Mobil caved and now suggests sticking with whatever the manual says.
The manufacturer writes the manual for many audiences. I suspect that a good part of the manual is written for the prime reason of lowering risk in the event of litigation. Remember when Ford SUVs were blowing out tires? Their first inquiry was whether or not tire pressures had been properly maintained.
Several years ago, Mobil suggested oil changes as long as 25k for Mobil 1. However, the manufactures nearly choked when they read that recommendation. Mobil caved and now suggests sticking with whatever the manual says.
okc-esprit said:
Sorry, just an example of why I don't particularly take the manufacturer's word as gospel.
The manufacturer writes the manual for many audiences. I suspect that a good part of the manual is written for the prime reason of lowering risk in the event of litigation. Remember when Ford SUVs were blowing out tires? Their first inquiry was whether or not tire pressures had been properly maintained.
Several years ago, Mobil suggested oil changes as long as 25k for Mobil 1. However, the manufactures nearly choked when they read that recommendation. Mobil caved and now suggests sticking with whatever the manual says.
Amen,
My wife's new Jaguar X-type has an oil change service interval recommendation of 10,000mi. I called Jaguar directly to inquire of this and they stated that this is the spec'd interval, but that Many owners choose to change the oil at 5,000 mi. intervals. I asked them which they recommended and the woman said "it's really up to you", "5,000mi. changes certainly won't hurt..." Suffice it to say we'll be amongst the Many.
Interestingly, there have been an inordinate number of engine failures in this car, but only in the US market. Part of the marketing here is No-cost maintenance for the first few years. Many salesman have been referring to this program as 'Free Maintenance' which many customers have interpreted as Maintenance Free. Our dealer just replaced an engine w/ 40k mi. on it which seized because the oil had never been checked or changed. The dealer expects Jaguar USA to reject the warranty claim.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
>> Edited by lotusguy on Tuesday 8th February 04:13
>> Edited by lotusguy on Tuesday 8th February 04:14
lotusguy said:
Interestingly, there have been an inordinate number of engine failures in this car, but only in the US market. Part of the marketing here is No-cost maintenance for the first few years. Many salesman have been referring to this program as 'Free Maintenance' which many customers have interpreted as Maintenance Free.
In the early 80's I suspected that one major contributing factor to the reliability of a Japanese car was the owner's manual. The manual for a Honda reads like the 10 commandments. In contrast, the manual for a Pontiac contained only suggestions. Honda directed the owner to change oil every 3500 miles. Pontiac suggested changes for normal driving at 7500 miles. Similar comparisons existed throughout the manuals. At least as far as the U.S. market, Honda appeared to recognize that the average driver is a dunce when it came to maintaining their car. Honda took the consumer by the hand, guided the maintenance and built a reputation for reliable cars.
I guess doesn't particularly relate to the subject at hand, except to suggest that owner's manuals are only as good as the mechanic using them. Experience will always trump the manual.
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