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BEWARE OF THESE MANUALS
These Adobe Acrobat (PDF) manuals that are circulating around are not official Lotus manuals. Someone a while back scanned in all the Lotus service manuals and sold them on eBay. This is where these manuals seem to have originated.
Why should you care?
I won't get into the legalities of copyright. The guys on the UK list already tore my head off for pointing this out last month. I will say, however, that although they are good for general reading, looking at the diagrams and getting an overall view of things you should not rely on these manuals for any technical specs. Why, you ask? Because whoever scanned the manuals used OCR software to convert the text and make the files smaller (yes, as big as these files are they would have been much bigger). And OCR is still a very imperfect science.
I have discovered several errors in specs where numbers and/or units were converted incorrectly by the OCR software. If you were relying on these numbers for critical measurements or torque specs, you might be in for a suprise. Caveat Emptor.
These Adobe Acrobat (PDF) manuals that are circulating around are not official Lotus manuals. Someone a while back scanned in all the Lotus service manuals and sold them on eBay. This is where these manuals seem to have originated.
Why should you care?
I won't get into the legalities of copyright. The guys on the UK list already tore my head off for pointing this out last month. I will say, however, that although they are good for general reading, looking at the diagrams and getting an overall view of things you should not rely on these manuals for any technical specs. Why, you ask? Because whoever scanned the manuals used OCR software to convert the text and make the files smaller (yes, as big as these files are they would have been much bigger). And OCR is still a very imperfect science.
I have discovered several errors in specs where numbers and/or units were converted incorrectly by the OCR software. If you were relying on these numbers for critical measurements or torque specs, you might be in for a suprise. Caveat Emptor.
I double checked mine with the paper manual I have and all seems kosher so far. I usually do when torque numbers are involved for the exact reasons you mention Karl. Of course, the PDF I have has much more info than the paper manual (mine is incomplete and I cannot justify the $450 bill to complete it) and then again the PDF still is lacking a few sections (like hvac which i got from another member). Overall, it is a great guide to have though. I only have the paperback because the PO included it with the car.
My PDF supposedly came from a "very upstanding Lotus community member" whose name I will not mention and he told me it came directly from Lotus as he has "friends". Well for poops and giggles I bought one off of ebay for a whopping $2.99 and it is the same exact one. of course the first one I bought was for much, MUCH more because at the time, I didn't know any better.
>> Edited by NJGSX96 on Wednesday 26th January 23:09
My PDF supposedly came from a "very upstanding Lotus community member" whose name I will not mention and he told me it came directly from Lotus as he has "friends". Well for poops and giggles I bought one off of ebay for a whopping $2.99 and it is the same exact one. of course the first one I bought was for much, MUCH more because at the time, I didn't know any better.
>> Edited by NJGSX96 on Wednesday 26th January 23:09
NJGSX96 said:
My PDF supposedly came from a "very upstanding Lotus community member" whose name I will not mention and he told me it came directly from Lotus as he has "friends".
Methinks you were duped by a "very upstanding Lotus community member". Lotus did not make these PDF manuals.
The CD manuals for the earlier '88 cars up to the '92 SE are obvious scans of the manual in book form and then bundled in a PDF format and onto CD.
I have (err...) seen some, and they are not perfect.
However,(and i accept i could be wrong here)i am unaware of any factory purpose made or approved CD manual for the 88-92 Stevens cars. In fact i would be very impressed if anyone can post a link to a legal vendor of a bespoke CD manual for these models.
As far as i can see, these scans-to-pdf are the only way to currently get the early manuals on CD.
If there is legal and purpose designed software then someone PLEASE post a link to who sells it!!!
I have (err...) seen some, and they are not perfect.
However,(and i accept i could be wrong here)i am unaware of any factory purpose made or approved CD manual for the 88-92 Stevens cars. In fact i would be very impressed if anyone can post a link to a legal vendor of a bespoke CD manual for these models.
As far as i can see, these scans-to-pdf are the only way to currently get the early manuals on CD.
If there is legal and purpose designed software then someone PLEASE post a link to who sells it!!!
There are two PDF's floating around. One is the 93-96 and that version was OCR'ed. The other one is for 88-92's and that one appears to have been PDF'ed directly from the scanned immages. While not "perfect," the imperfections are things like the paper was slightly crooked in the scanner, there was a smudge on the original, or the original was printed too light in the first place. Otherwise, they appear to be an exact reproduction (images) of an original SE service notes set, saved in a loss-less format. Or so I have heard.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
paul c said:
The CD manuals for the earlier '88 cars up to the '92 SE are obvious scans of the manual in book form and then bundled in a PDF format and onto CD.
I have (err...) seen some, and they are not perfect.
However,(and i accept i could be wrong here)i am unaware of any factory purpose made or approved CD manual for the 88-92 Stevens cars. In fact i would be very impressed if anyone can post a link to a legal vendor of a bespoke CD manual for these models.
As far as i can see, these scans-to-pdf are the only way to currently get the early manuals on CD.
If there is legal and purpose designed software then someone PLEASE post a link to who sells it!!!
Lotus has a software CD that was made by Media Solutions International. It contains all the manuals and parts lists. It was provided to the dealers and is tied to their parts ordering system. The software does cover the 88-92MY. This software is also being used at Lotus Cars USA. I was provided with a copy of the disc, but it has copy protection and requires a specific logon ID and password in order to run it.
karlfranz said:
My PDF supposedly came from a "very upstanding Lotus community member" whose name I will not mention and he told me it came directly from Lotus as he has "friends".
Methinks you were duped by a "very upstanding Lotus community member". Lotus did not make these PDF manuals.
Without a doubt. I have come to terms with that though and am over it, although that took a while since I see his name/screen name every day on here and/or the TE list. You live and learn.... Lotus owners are no better than anyone else out there unfortunately.
Concerning copyright, it seems that several people who contribute have direct contacts with Lotus. Perhaps someone could check with Lotus. They may not care. However, since I've seen some comments on accuracy of the copies, I would guess that Lotus would be concerned with unauthorized reproductions.
The books are original works and do involve some creativity so copyright does exist in the books. Any reproduction, publication or distribution of a copyrighted work requires permission of the copyright owner. Copying and selling the book isn't any different than copying and selling someone's upgraded software for the ECM. We had that discussion a couple of months ago.
The books are original works and do involve some creativity so copyright does exist in the books. Any reproduction, publication or distribution of a copyrighted work requires permission of the copyright owner. Copying and selling the book isn't any different than copying and selling someone's upgraded software for the ECM. We had that discussion a couple of months ago.
karlfranz said:
BEWARE OF THESE MANUALS
I won't get into the legalities of copyright. The guys on the UK list already tore my head off for pointing this out last month.
Next time someone gripes about the legalities of copyright ask them if it is ok for you to walk into their house, open the icebox and start eating their food. Whether it is a book, a movie, a song or software, someone's effort went into making that product and they should benefit from it. Oh, it isn't only the copyright owner that benefits. It's also the printer, the distributor, the sound engineer and I could go on for quite awhile listing the other hard working folk who rely upon IP protections for their jobs.
I used to work for an oil refiner. The MBA's there never did understand copyright until I pointed out that it was a good thing a gallon of gasoline can only be burned once. I'll shut up now. If someone has a question please feel free to e-mail me and I'll try to answer it.
karlfranz said:
The CD manuals for the earlier '88 cars up to the '92 SE are obvious scans of the manual in book form and then bundled in a PDF format and onto CD.
I have (err...) seen some, and they are not perfect.
However,(and i accept i could be wrong here)i am unaware of any factory purpose made or approved CD manual for the 88-92 Stevens cars. In fact i would be very impressed if anyone can post a link to a legal vendor of a bespoke CD manual for these models.
As far as i can see, these scans-to-pdf are the only way to currently get the early manuals on CD.
If there is legal and purpose designed software then someone PLEASE post a link to who sells it!!!
Lotus has a software CD that was made by Media Solutions International. It contains all the manuals and parts lists. It was provided to the dealers and is tied to their parts ordering system. The software does cover the 88-92MY. This software is also being used at Lotus Cars USA. I was provided with a copy of the disc, but it has copy protection and requires a specific logon ID and password in order to run it.
Thanks karlfranz
So does this mean the ONLY way someone can get the SE workshop manuals on CD is to own a copy of the PDF/SCAN of the 88-92 manuals and parts list that is being passed about?
karlfranz said:
...or buy the genuine printed manuals from Lotus and scan them yourself
Mmm...
Time consuming indeed, many pages, and the end result would be no different than the CD of scans on PDF that i have (Err...) seen.
Theres an open market waiting for a purpose made copyright safe Esprit manual CD then. Hell, it could even contain colour photo's of various procedures etc...
Is it the factory that prevents this existing?
I purchased the '88 - '92 SE service manual and the additional sections for the Engine Management system (EMK) and electrical (MK). While the latter 2 are complete the service manual is missing probably well in excess of thirty or so importantpages. I have personally scanned these and have pdf copies for my own use but I must admit that I was glad to receive an unofficial CD containing the service manual as it enabled me to add in the pages that I had previously paid for but was missing.
Danny '93 SE Highwing
Danny '93 SE Highwing
paul c said:
...or buy the genuine printed manuals from Lotus and scan them yourself
Mmm...
Time consuming indeed, many pages, and the end result would be no different than the CD of scans on PDF that i have (Err...) seen.
It's a little different if you were to obtain a CD of these scanned images AND you own the printed material. I myself have scanned my S3/TE manual to PDF, but I have refused to distribute it to anyone who doesn't own the printed book.
I believe (at least in the US,) the copyright laws allow you the ability to "back-up" copyrighted material for safe keeping, but redistributing (especially for money,) is prohibited.
paul c said:
Theres an open market waiting for a purpose made copyright safe Esprit manual CD then. Hell, it could even contain colour photo's of various procedures etc...
I don't know about an "open market." Consider the cost of such a production (easily in the $US 10-20k), then consider the number of manuals that would be sold (maybe a couple hundred). I doubt you would even come close to breaking even as far as the economics.
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