crap.. motoconcept 330hp chip, 20+PSI!!!?!?!?
Discussion
Okay... wow. Finally got the CEL to go away (secondary injector resistor), no computer codes. Pulled the memcal with batt. off (said the hell with it, I want to reset it). reinsterted the chip, bolted together, connected the battery after 10min. overkill i thought..
Typical chip break-in... i thought.... pushed the gas 2-3 times with ign. on, engine off. turned ign. off and then started the car. ran like a champ. No codes, sat for 10 minutes at idle.
Took it out for it's cruising time.. After about 15 minutes, I had to accelerate about 60% to merge into traffic. to my surprise the boost gauge (aftermarket mechanical autometer) showed 15 psi. wierd. thought it stayed around 6 on break-in. Curious, I floored it. At 21psi (really quick) I took my foot off the accelerator.
Crap. After that, A code 24 (VSS) comes on when it boosts that high. (only until i restart car). According to freescan, that may be due to an "excessively lean idle" i think it said. I'm assuming it's not a problem and only b/c it was running at 21psi.
I parked the car, checked all the wastegate hoses, and disconnected the battery. I figure i'll let it sit till tomorrow and try the whole "learn" process again. Any clues as to why the boost is so high? Is there any way to mechanically lower it with a boost controller? I have one, but what will disconnecting the factory wastegate solenoid do?
this gets better and better... oh yeah, 95 s4 and thanks to everyone for your help to this point..
Typical chip break-in... i thought.... pushed the gas 2-3 times with ign. on, engine off. turned ign. off and then started the car. ran like a champ. No codes, sat for 10 minutes at idle.
Took it out for it's cruising time.. After about 15 minutes, I had to accelerate about 60% to merge into traffic. to my surprise the boost gauge (aftermarket mechanical autometer) showed 15 psi. wierd. thought it stayed around 6 on break-in. Curious, I floored it. At 21psi (really quick) I took my foot off the accelerator.
Crap. After that, A code 24 (VSS) comes on when it boosts that high. (only until i restart car). According to freescan, that may be due to an "excessively lean idle" i think it said. I'm assuming it's not a problem and only b/c it was running at 21psi.
I parked the car, checked all the wastegate hoses, and disconnected the battery. I figure i'll let it sit till tomorrow and try the whole "learn" process again. Any clues as to why the boost is so high? Is there any way to mechanically lower it with a boost controller? I have one, but what will disconnecting the factory wastegate solenoid do?
this gets better and better... oh yeah, 95 s4 and thanks to everyone for your help to this point..
okay, for vss trouble. I have disabled the abs (felt like crap) by "remove the 15Amp and 30Amp solenoid fuses" found on the LEW sourced faq here"www.voicecrystal.com/Esprit/ABS_Disable/". Could that kill the vss signal? the service manual said something about it...
yeah, thanks for the reply. The only thing i got 0's in was road speed. wierd. I'm not sure if pulling those fuses could disable the road speed sensor (not that the engine really needs to know if i'm not using abs). the manual said that the vss sensor is fed info through abs. I'm going to try to find a sensor now. Hey, are all four vss sensors the same p/n? If so, I'll swap with one of the others (the ecm only uses the right rear, not using abs, so no need for the other three.. 
i know the front are diff. The rear two "wheel speed sensors" are the same p'n, but there's also a p/n for a vehicle speed sensor, located in the same spot. interesting. They look identical, i'll be pulling them tomorrow and switching for testing. The boost prob. is scraing me though....
yeah, it's the red race purchased through JAE (told it was a motoconcept by Jeff there) It wouldn't settle, it just kepta rising...
For the wastegate adjustment, any simple steps to adjust it? I'm going to swap the rear VSS's tomorrow to solve the speed sensor prob (unrelated as I think, the VSS is used to control boost... and once the trouble code went off (a good 10 minutes after i started driving), boost went back down to about 8psi.. that would make me think the wastegate is actually lower than normal (it should go to 9.5, yet it only goes to 8).. I can try to adjust it i suppose, and hints?
Thanks again for all your help, and karmavore, good contrib. for the SM.
thx, rob
For the wastegate adjustment, any simple steps to adjust it? I'm going to swap the rear VSS's tomorrow to solve the speed sensor prob (unrelated as I think, the VSS is used to control boost... and once the trouble code went off (a good 10 minutes after i started driving), boost went back down to about 8psi.. that would make me think the wastegate is actually lower than normal (it should go to 9.5, yet it only goes to 8).. I can try to adjust it i suppose, and hints?
Thanks again for all your help, and karmavore, good contrib. for the SM.
thx, rob
i sent it to LEW, but any experts at freescan....
[url]http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~rjuge/mydata.csv[/url]
[url]http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~rjuge/mydata.csv[/url]
Scan shows you go lean quite often. Integrator shouldn't show above 128. Over 128 shows a lean condition.
Scan does not show, according to MAP sensor, you are not running too much boost. 1.69 was max which is ~.7 bar. MAP sensor OK?
Is TPS adjusted properly and working right? Under 100 load you do not get 100 on the tps. Check the voltage and make sure it is adjusted properly.
Odd that your wastegate DC is 0 the whole way. Something else to check? Vacuum lines hooked up properly?
>> Edited by njgsx96 on Tuesday 25th January 04:42
Scan does not show, according to MAP sensor, you are not running too much boost. 1.69 was max which is ~.7 bar. MAP sensor OK?
Is TPS adjusted properly and working right? Under 100 load you do not get 100 on the tps. Check the voltage and make sure it is adjusted properly.
Odd that your wastegate DC is 0 the whole way. Something else to check? Vacuum lines hooked up properly?
>> Edited by njgsx96 on Tuesday 25th January 04:42
for those looking at the .csv, the secondary inj. dc is always 0, and so is wastegate dc is 0. That was after the cutout though, after i hit 20psi and the CEL came on. figured that would explain that to any analyzers.. after that, the car never went over 8 psi or so.... (safety cut out?)
>> Edited by rjjuge on Tuesday 25th January 05:07
>> Edited by rjjuge on Tuesday 25th January 05:07
you asked it before I could get the post up. That map was after the 20psi incident and only peaked at around 7-8psi after if i remember correctly.. Never over that the whole way back, the lean should not be a problem, I assume then.. also I know the wastegate dc stayed at zero b/c the CEL went on and it went to wastegate controlled minimum for safety from what I understand.. thx for the interpretation.
i checked again, the only spots the BLM went lean were not under boost from what I saw, normally for short periods when I was at 0.2ish MAP (would that bt 0.02bar? according to what I read in the manual). Everytime the boost was out of vacuum and most of the time it was under the 128 mark from what I think i read... again, first time looking at it after reading the manual..
I know it will help for a log of the 20psi incident, which i DREAD trying to recreate, but if i can't fix it with the relearning and swapping the VSSs tomorrow, I'll do. Does anyone know exactly what should be done to "learn" a motoconcept chip? The instructions that came with it said one thing (like 10 mins. idle, then a 15 min.. drive...), but Jeff at JAE says this is inadequate. As my 6th or 7th take a relearning, I'd like to have something "solid" to go by..
thx again..
>> Edited by rjjuge on Tuesday 25th January 05:03
i checked again, the only spots the BLM went lean were not under boost from what I saw, normally for short periods when I was at 0.2ish MAP (would that bt 0.02bar? according to what I read in the manual). Everytime the boost was out of vacuum and most of the time it was under the 128 mark from what I think i read... again, first time looking at it after reading the manual..
I know it will help for a log of the 20psi incident, which i DREAD trying to recreate, but if i can't fix it with the relearning and swapping the VSSs tomorrow, I'll do. Does anyone know exactly what should be done to "learn" a motoconcept chip? The instructions that came with it said one thing (like 10 mins. idle, then a 15 min.. drive...), but Jeff at JAE says this is inadequate. As my 6th or 7th take a relearning, I'd like to have something "solid" to go by..
thx again..
>> Edited by rjjuge on Tuesday 25th January 05:03
rjjuge said:
As my 6th or 7th take a relearning, I'd like to have something "solid" to go by..
Not sure if it's solid, but I've noticed some cars (my own included) will sometimes overboost when initially learning, until the ECM figures out what's really needed. Keep working your way up to full boost in little spurts until things settle down. First you need to fix all the other weird stuff, though.
BTW, the VSS is a separate sensor from the ABS.
As Sanj mentioned, the VSS sensor is not realted too the ABS system.
It uses it's own independent sensor on the right rear hub.
Additionally, if you do not get a valid VSS signal, the ECM isn't going to learn properly. It need the vehicle speed to be over 3 mph before any of the laod parameters are considered acceptable.
The VSS signal is also used for MANY other parameters in the system, including cooling fan cycling, boost control, spark control on decel to name a few.
You must fix the VSS before proceeding.
It uses it's own independent sensor on the right rear hub.
Additionally, if you do not get a valid VSS signal, the ECM isn't going to learn properly. It need the vehicle speed to be over 3 mph before any of the laod parameters are considered acceptable.
The VSS signal is also used for MANY other parameters in the system, including cooling fan cycling, boost control, spark control on decel to name a few.
You must fix the VSS before proceeding.
okay.. well. still now go. Another break in and the car wants to go up to 20 psi. I'm afraid to hold it there and see if it goes any higher because I don't want to blow up my engine!
What to do, what to do? I know the solenoid is working (it's bleeding off enough air to get boost that high). Could the solenoid be bleeding off too much air? is there a way to test it? It seems like i'm just one unlucky man...
What to do, what to do? I know the solenoid is working (it's bleeding off enough air to get boost that high). Could the solenoid be bleeding off too much air? is there a way to test it? It seems like i'm just one unlucky man...
..you know, I'd put the stock chip back in and see if it works properly. I saw a huge GAIN when I replaced my MotoConcept chip.
Also, while I'm a big fan of perfromance chips, I just don't trust these with out dyno tuning. I mean, a) the 910 seems to deliver inconsistant performance (depending on age, how it's been treated, the weather, the stars, etc..) anyway and with such a small number of cars using them (as opposed to VW chips, say) how can the tuning be generic enough to work on all cars?
I'm getting the 330 chip too, but I'm going to wait to open it up untill it's on the dyno wired up to MAP and A:F sensors. Otherwise, how do you know..?
Luke.
Also, while I'm a big fan of perfromance chips, I just don't trust these with out dyno tuning. I mean, a) the 910 seems to deliver inconsistant performance (depending on age, how it's been treated, the weather, the stars, etc..) anyway and with such a small number of cars using them (as opposed to VW chips, say) how can the tuning be generic enough to work on all cars?
I'm getting the 330 chip too, but I'm going to wait to open it up untill it's on the dyno wired up to MAP and A:F sensors. Otherwise, how do you know..?
Luke.
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