Discussion
reading posts over the last few months since i've had my SE, i get the impression that the S4 is a more than marginally supperior car. I read things like the SE is undersprung and overdamped, too much understeer, too much body roll,etc and that the power steering on the S4 transforms the driving experience for the better. further, i read that problems with the earlier cars were solved with the S4. i'm thinking that i would be better off trading up to an S4 than trying to upgrade my SE (like with wheels, adjustable suspension, etc)
anybody have thoughts on this?
chris
90SE
anybody have thoughts on this?
chris
90SE
It does sound like a better idea, I have heard some people say it's worth it for the power steering alone. However some of the S4's are still getting on a bit, and have reached an age where they will be needing a little TLC so be picky. If you can justify it go for one built from the mid-90s, they seem to be better made.
britten_mark said:
However some of the S4's are still getting on a bit, and have reached an age where they will be needing a little TLC so be picky. If you can justify it go for one built from the mid-90s, they seem to be better made.
True,
An early S4 will be ten years old now, so some of the upgrades/replacement you mught not wish to do on your SE might be as standard on the S4 - but need relacing too!
I chose an SE as my second Esprit purely as i could get a better car with some money left over (very important with any Esprit purchase), Had i gone from SE's to S4's then i'd have been looking at the early cheaper S4's that still needed a bit of work (as did my SE) but would not have left me room in my budget to do so. Also, making the jump between shapes all i really wanted was the chargecooler, and the SE had it
The S4 has a more modern look to it than the SE with its more rounded bumpers and sills too. The one thing i really like about it over the SE is its wheels, and i intend to fit them on my SE at some point.
If i have a bais, then oddly it's toward the early G cars...
I think the original shape is the most striking Esprit form.
My SE looks great, but being more modern 'blends in' more with other traffic, more so with later upgrades.
I think a G-car turbo knocks an '02 V8 for looks.
Paul C Turbo SE
Just my 2p
You mean S4s, correct?
I originally wanted an S4s but the price was just too high IMHO. I couldn't justify the expediture for the changes that were important to me. The interior/exterior didn't mean much to me and since I do my own work brakes, engine mods, suspension could all be done for reasonable cost, far less than the differences in price.
If you don't do your own work or are not inclined to do the development and find the parts for far less than the asking prices at the usual Lotus places, then you'd be better off getting the S4s initially.
I disagree on that power steering thing though - I find the Lotus steering more than light enough and very direct. One less thing to break on the car too.
Ron
>> Edited by rlearp on Monday 27th December 13:06
I originally wanted an S4s but the price was just too high IMHO. I couldn't justify the expediture for the changes that were important to me. The interior/exterior didn't mean much to me and since I do my own work brakes, engine mods, suspension could all be done for reasonable cost, far less than the differences in price.
If you don't do your own work or are not inclined to do the development and find the parts for far less than the asking prices at the usual Lotus places, then you'd be better off getting the S4s initially.
I disagree on that power steering thing though - I find the Lotus steering more than light enough and very direct. One less thing to break on the car too.
Ron
>> Edited by rlearp on Monday 27th December 13:06
I think ABS came on in 91. My 93.5 SE has it.
I have driven an S4. The power steering is great, but in my view not a vast improvement (or any real improvement actually) over the manual steering on the SEs.
I didn't get to push the S4 though and can't comment on its suspension. I do think that the SE is a decent compromise between track and street, but on either extreme, not so good. Meaning that, on the track, the car rolls far too much and understeers at the limit. I've heard the S4 suspension cured this.
It would be an easy cure for the SE to just bolt on the dampers and springs from an S4, but for the wheel issue.
I think the old adage about buying as new an Esprit that has been driven regularly and maintained properly is correct. A 90SE with 40k miles that has been cared for is probably a better car (suspension issues, etc. aside) than a 94 S4 with 10k that sat in a garage in Florida for most of its life.
I have driven an S4. The power steering is great, but in my view not a vast improvement (or any real improvement actually) over the manual steering on the SEs.
I didn't get to push the S4 though and can't comment on its suspension. I do think that the SE is a decent compromise between track and street, but on either extreme, not so good. Meaning that, on the track, the car rolls far too much and understeers at the limit. I've heard the S4 suspension cured this.
It would be an easy cure for the SE to just bolt on the dampers and springs from an S4, but for the wheel issue.
I think the old adage about buying as new an Esprit that has been driven regularly and maintained properly is correct. A 90SE with 40k miles that has been cared for is probably a better car (suspension issues, etc. aside) than a 94 S4 with 10k that sat in a garage in Florida for most of its life.
HI,
i bought a 1993 S4 in May, i feel the steering is excellent and although light it still feels "connected " to the road. As far as suspension goes i find it a little too hard for many British B roads, but find a nice stretch of smooth dual carriageway or smooth bends and the limited roll make it a pleasures to push hard.
dave
i bought a 1993 S4 in May, i feel the steering is excellent and although light it still feels "connected " to the road. As far as suspension goes i find it a little too hard for many British B roads, but find a nice stretch of smooth dual carriageway or smooth bends and the limited roll make it a pleasures to push hard.
dave
Gazboy said:
How 'sound' is your SE? If it's a little cracker, and you aren't bothered about the power steering, then why not just change the suspension and wheels?
What niggles do you have with the SE?
Its pretty good. got it here in florida with 56k miles, 3 owners in the southeast. many of the problem solving mods were already done. i did some others
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/redrocket
over all im pretty happy, but it does seem to have a lot of body roll. the s4 wheels are hard to come by used and if i bought new wheels, tires and suspension parts (maybe brakes too) i would have closed the price gap between my SE and an S4! and still wouldnt have the power steering...
i do like the look of the SE better
(i do the work myself with a little help from the Esprit community)
>> Edited by ragingfool on Monday 27th December 18:13
>> Edited by ragingfool on Monday 27th December 18:16
ragingfool said:
the s4 wheels are hard to come by used...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4513870008&category=42606
Still pretty low but still 4 days left.
As for suspension and brakes, if you like the looks better and your car is already sorted, I would wait for a deal on used lotus suspension or get new lotus or aftermarket parts. brakes are no different - same shitty brakes - unless you get a later 94 or 95 S4.
Rich
Early 94 S4 with horrible brakes.
>> Edited by NJGSX96 on Monday 27th December 19:44
ragingfool said:
thanks
strange but no matter how i search ebay those dont show up?! also, those sold about 2 weeks ago i thought...
I go to ebay and do a search for esprit and then select parts and accessories....
ragingfool said:
how is the power steering on your S4? is the car more fun/easy to drive with it?
I have only a few times driven a car without power steering, one being a civic, one being an 88 Esprit and the other an 89 non-SE with S4s rims. While the civic sucked, the 88 Esprit was not too bad really. IN fact I had to ask, "I thought this didn't have PS?". Big thing with the non-PS esprit is the front tires. Go bigger, ie S4s wheels like the non-SE 89 I drove, and it gets a little heavier heavier. Go even bigger and heavier, like V8 rims, and it gets pretty rough from what I am told.
Personally, I like power steering and drive the car quite often so I prefer to have a car with it. Even without though, the car would be fun to drive. I think the Esprit is a blast to drive and look forward to those non-raining and non-snowing days eagerly!
Gazboy said:
Same brakes as on my MR2.
If you can't find Later Lotus brakes, see if U.S. spec Supra twin turbo brakes fit, they should be 4 pots, and plenty about as the Supra guys upgrade theirs to huge AP items.
if I am not mistaken, you would need to have brackets made up at the least. Fitment under the stock rim of an SE or earlier may be a problem. First thing to do on stock Esprit brakes are ditch the greenstuff pads and get real pads. If that isn't enough of an improvement, look at other avenues.
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