Timing Belt Interchangability
Discussion
Alright, i've got my shop building built and an engine hoist in my possesion
time to do a bit of work on the Esprit. The timing belt will need to be changed definitely, and I will inspect the engine for a few leaks that my mechanic noted and said needed to be fixed "right away" I now think he was being less than honest- the car has not leaked any oil at all since I bought it nearly 2 years ago, and he claims I have "very serious" oil leaks on the oil pump and head gasket (isn't it true that while the engine is in the car a head gasket oil leak is indistinguishable from a cam tower leak).
However, the cam belt does need doing My question- would a cambelt from any 900 series engine fit? For example, a Jensen Healey 907 belt onto my 910. And I've also heard some kind of Nissan Maxima has the same belt, which would make it easier to find anyway...
don't suppose anyone could confirm or deny any of that?
thanks in advance
dan
time to do a bit of work on the Esprit. The timing belt will need to be changed definitely, and I will inspect the engine for a few leaks that my mechanic noted and said needed to be fixed "right away" I now think he was being less than honest- the car has not leaked any oil at all since I bought it nearly 2 years ago, and he claims I have "very serious" oil leaks on the oil pump and head gasket (isn't it true that while the engine is in the car a head gasket oil leak is indistinguishable from a cam tower leak). However, the cam belt does need doing My question- would a cambelt from any 900 series engine fit? For example, a Jensen Healey 907 belt onto my 910. And I've also heard some kind of Nissan Maxima has the same belt, which would make it easier to find anyway...
don't suppose anyone could confirm or deny any of that?
thanks in advance
dan
Dan,
The timing belts are not interchangeable between the '86 and any earlier models. This is because Lotus changed the profile of the belt from a trapezoidal tooth profile to a rounded tooth profile (HTD profile Belt). This switch necessitated different profile cam puuleys, timing/aux pulley and crank pulley. The tensioner was also switched at this cutover as well to an eccentric from a semi-automatic one.
I too have seen cross references to the Maxima belt, but do not know which tooth profile it has, so it obviously won't cross-reference for all models.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
The timing belts are not interchangeable between the '86 and any earlier models. This is because Lotus changed the profile of the belt from a trapezoidal tooth profile to a rounded tooth profile (HTD profile Belt). This switch necessitated different profile cam puuleys, timing/aux pulley and crank pulley. The tensioner was also switched at this cutover as well to an eccentric from a semi-automatic one.
I too have seen cross references to the Maxima belt, but do not know which tooth profile it has, so it obviously won't cross-reference for all models.
Happy Motoring! ...Jim'85TE
Can't say for sure as to the Nissan fit... however, I think (think) there were two different types of belts used. One has a "squared" or flat tooth while the other has a "rounded" tooth. You can not swap one for the other. The cam gears are cut to match and you will at the very least jump a tooth if you try to swap these out for each other.
Unfortunatly, I have no ideas as to the years/makes/and engine numbers that the belts changed. My Esprit is an 88' turbo and has the "round" teeth...
As per the oil leak...
The cam tower leak can be detected by wiping along the cam tower where the surfaces mate up. Let the car sit a bit and you will be able to trace the leak up higher than the head. It can be mistaken for a head leak, but the oil will be visible just above the head mating surface. Hard to see on the oil pump side of the car, but not with the plenum removed or the motor out of the car.
I would personally be very carful about listening to anyone looking to get paid for working on your car unless you know them very well - especially dealerships. Get them to show you exactly what they are telling you. if they do not want to do this - or can't... get a different opinion!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Unfortunatly, I have no ideas as to the years/makes/and engine numbers that the belts changed. My Esprit is an 88' turbo and has the "round" teeth...
As per the oil leak...
The cam tower leak can be detected by wiping along the cam tower where the surfaces mate up. Let the car sit a bit and you will be able to trace the leak up higher than the head. It can be mistaken for a head leak, but the oil will be visible just above the head mating surface. Hard to see on the oil pump side of the car, but not with the plenum removed or the motor out of the car.
I would personally be very carful about listening to anyone looking to get paid for working on your car unless you know them very well - especially dealerships. Get them to show you exactly what they are telling you. if they do not want to do this - or can't... get a different opinion!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Thanks, useful information! A call to JAE is in order... first I think I'll get over to autozone and compare belt teeth on a few Maxima belts.
I will be trying to follow the procedure listed here www.rottenrodent.com/lotus/tb1.htm
Would it be easier to remove the engine entirely to do this? My mechanic recommended I do this, but said that it was possible to change the belt with the engine in the car, (he said it was harder) my fear is that other things may break if I remove the engine entirely what do you recommend I do?
thanks,
dan
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 20th December 16:58
I will be trying to follow the procedure listed here www.rottenrodent.com/lotus/tb1.htm
Would it be easier to remove the engine entirely to do this? My mechanic recommended I do this, but said that it was possible to change the belt with the engine in the car, (he said it was harder) my fear is that other things may break if I remove the engine entirely what do you recommend I do?
thanks,
dan
>> Edited by 86turbo on Monday 20th December 16:58
If you have the rounded tooth/cog belt, then as I have documented on:
http://home.flash.net/~hess/crystal_princess.htm
you can use a Gates T188, Fits 1991 Peugeot 405 1.9L DOHC. It is on my car now. The local parts shop will probably have to special order it for you, as I don't think too many Peugeots are running around any more.
Dr.Hess
http://home.flash.net/~hess/crystal_princess.htm
you can use a Gates T188, Fits 1991 Peugeot 405 1.9L DOHC. It is on my car now. The local parts shop will probably have to special order it for you, as I don't think too many Peugeots are running around any more.
Dr.Hess
Lotus 9XX Timing Belts:
TRAPEZOIDAL Tooth Belt
Prior to 1986 Model Year
907, 910, 911, 912 Standard engines (ie, not HC or HCI)
A907E0191Z,. trapezoidal tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - pre 1986
A907E0191ZE, trapezoidal tooth, 133 teeth, 907
................... Z and ZE suffixes are interchangeable.
B907E1050FL, trapezoidal tooth, 137 teeth, 907
................... Elite/Eclat with Fed. air injection pump
I measure the Lotus OEM belt at 1.032" wide
Gates 5146 is 1.0" wide, 133 trapezoidal teeth.
HTD, ROUND tooth timing belt
1986 Onward
910 HC, 910 HCI, 912 HC (high compression)
A912E6697F, HTD round tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - 1986 onward
B912E6697F, HTD round tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - 1995 on, Calif
.................. HSN, California requirement for a 100k mile timing belt.
Written on the side of a new B-prefix Lotus OEM HTD timing belt is:
"Gates PowerGrip HTD Made in UK B912E6697F (464DS)"
DS on end of part number indicates Made in Scotland
The B-prefix version of the HTD belt is made with HSN rubber (Highly Saturated Nitrile rubber). That's a very tough, wear resistant rubber, and Lotus gave the longest service interval to that belt. It was introduced in response to California's requirement for timing belts to last 100k miles, but I believe it became the default service replacement timing belt. If you want the best belt for your 1986 or later HC engine, then that's the one you want. You can get an B-prefix, HSN, HTD timing belt from Lotus or from most independent Lotus parts suppliers... ask if they sell the HSN version. I know Jeff at JAE in the US only sells the HSN version of the HTD timing belt. To the best of my knowledge, the trapezoidal belt is not available in HSN rubber.
A Gates Rubber Co. T-188 is a 133 tooth HTD timing belt that will work on 9XX engines 1986 onward. I'm not sure if the Gates T-188 is the same as the Gates PowerGrip HTD belt that is the Lotus B-prefix HSN belt. Or what the appropriate change interval would be for the T-188. The safe interval would be to treat it like an early, pre-California belt until you can confirm otherwise.
Gates T188 applications:
* Lotus 910 HC, 910 HCI, 912 HC, 920 - 1986 onwards.
* Peugeot 405, 1991 1.9L DOHC
* Nissan Maxima with VG30E SOHC V6 engine after August 1994.
In the US/ Canada, just order a Gates T-188.
UK-owners have reported getting no where when asking for a Gates T-188, but advise that asking for a 5168NS works (NS = Non Standard). The belt that's delivered often shows up with the following long part number:
5168-58133-1-209DS.
"5168" is the main identifier portion of the number.
DS on end of part number indicates Made in Scotland.
It's a T-188.
The Nissan Maxima belt reference is for the VG30E SOHC engine as used in Nissan Maxima, Pathfinder, some? Pickup Truck, 87-88 200SX and 84-94 300ZX non-turbo. It uses a 133 tooth timing belt that will also fit on Lotus 9XX engines. However, like the Lotus engines, the Nissan went through an evolution of timing belts. So which one will fit your Lotus depends upon the year.
Ford used a variation on the same Nissan engine in the joint-developed Villager/Quest mini-van. However Ford insisted the engine be re-designed for a clearance valve train. The result was the V40 engine = Villager/Quest mini-van. But I'm not certain the Ford-spec version used the same same T-188 timing belt ?? Something else to check out.
The earliest versions of the Nissan VG30E engine used a trapezoidal toothed belt that will also fit on early Lotus 9XX engines.
Later versions went through a series of round-toothed timing belts. Don't make the mistake of assuming all round tooth timing belts are created equal and put just any round tooth Nissan belt on your 9XX.
Nissan round tooth belts:
*Pre – July 1993 = Shallow Groove, round tooth 60k miles?
*Jul 93 -- Aug 94 = DEEP Groove, round tooth 60k miles
*Aug 94 Onward = HTD (Gates T188), 105k miles <<<< this one !
Lotus owners want to use the last version of the Nissan belt (Aug 94 onward -- Gates T188 HTD belt).
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Tuesday 21st December 00:50
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Tuesday 21st December 00:51
TRAPEZOIDAL Tooth Belt
Prior to 1986 Model Year
907, 910, 911, 912 Standard engines (ie, not HC or HCI)
A907E0191Z,. trapezoidal tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - pre 1986
A907E0191ZE, trapezoidal tooth, 133 teeth, 907
................... Z and ZE suffixes are interchangeable.
B907E1050FL, trapezoidal tooth, 137 teeth, 907
................... Elite/Eclat with Fed. air injection pump
I measure the Lotus OEM belt at 1.032" wide
Gates 5146 is 1.0" wide, 133 trapezoidal teeth.
HTD, ROUND tooth timing belt
1986 Onward
910 HC, 910 HCI, 912 HC (high compression)
A912E6697F, HTD round tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - 1986 onward
B912E6697F, HTD round tooth, 133 teeth, 912, 910 - 1995 on, Calif
.................. HSN, California requirement for a 100k mile timing belt.
Written on the side of a new B-prefix Lotus OEM HTD timing belt is:
"Gates PowerGrip HTD Made in UK B912E6697F (464DS)"
DS on end of part number indicates Made in Scotland
The B-prefix version of the HTD belt is made with HSN rubber (Highly Saturated Nitrile rubber). That's a very tough, wear resistant rubber, and Lotus gave the longest service interval to that belt. It was introduced in response to California's requirement for timing belts to last 100k miles, but I believe it became the default service replacement timing belt. If you want the best belt for your 1986 or later HC engine, then that's the one you want. You can get an B-prefix, HSN, HTD timing belt from Lotus or from most independent Lotus parts suppliers... ask if they sell the HSN version. I know Jeff at JAE in the US only sells the HSN version of the HTD timing belt. To the best of my knowledge, the trapezoidal belt is not available in HSN rubber.
A Gates Rubber Co. T-188 is a 133 tooth HTD timing belt that will work on 9XX engines 1986 onward. I'm not sure if the Gates T-188 is the same as the Gates PowerGrip HTD belt that is the Lotus B-prefix HSN belt. Or what the appropriate change interval would be for the T-188. The safe interval would be to treat it like an early, pre-California belt until you can confirm otherwise.
Gates T188 applications:
* Lotus 910 HC, 910 HCI, 912 HC, 920 - 1986 onwards.
* Peugeot 405, 1991 1.9L DOHC
* Nissan Maxima with VG30E SOHC V6 engine after August 1994.
In the US/ Canada, just order a Gates T-188.
UK-owners have reported getting no where when asking for a Gates T-188, but advise that asking for a 5168NS works (NS = Non Standard). The belt that's delivered often shows up with the following long part number:
5168-58133-1-209DS.
"5168" is the main identifier portion of the number.
DS on end of part number indicates Made in Scotland.
It's a T-188.
The Nissan Maxima belt reference is for the VG30E SOHC engine as used in Nissan Maxima, Pathfinder, some? Pickup Truck, 87-88 200SX and 84-94 300ZX non-turbo. It uses a 133 tooth timing belt that will also fit on Lotus 9XX engines. However, like the Lotus engines, the Nissan went through an evolution of timing belts. So which one will fit your Lotus depends upon the year.
Ford used a variation on the same Nissan engine in the joint-developed Villager/Quest mini-van. However Ford insisted the engine be re-designed for a clearance valve train. The result was the V40 engine = Villager/Quest mini-van. But I'm not certain the Ford-spec version used the same same T-188 timing belt ?? Something else to check out.
The earliest versions of the Nissan VG30E engine used a trapezoidal toothed belt that will also fit on early Lotus 9XX engines.
Later versions went through a series of round-toothed timing belts. Don't make the mistake of assuming all round tooth timing belts are created equal and put just any round tooth Nissan belt on your 9XX.
Nissan round tooth belts:
*Pre – July 1993 = Shallow Groove, round tooth 60k miles?
*Jul 93 -- Aug 94 = DEEP Groove, round tooth 60k miles
*Aug 94 Onward = HTD (Gates T188), 105k miles <<<< this one !
Lotus owners want to use the last version of the Nissan belt (Aug 94 onward -- Gates T188 HTD belt).
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Tuesday 21st December 00:50
>> Edited by Esprit2 on Tuesday 21st December 00:51
Gassing Station | Esprit | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff