PNM/Hi-Spec REAR Brake Kit?
Discussion
Luke
I'm sure you could make a bracket to make them fit on the rear. The problem is that the caliper piston displacement(stock 2.46 in/sq)(hi-spec 3.57 in/sq)45% larger,would be to large for the master cylinder.
Look's like your stuck with them for the time being, maybe you could sell the front kit to someone looking to upgrade from thier TMC brakes.
Cheer's
Mike
I'm sure you could make a bracket to make them fit on the rear. The problem is that the caliper piston displacement(stock 2.46 in/sq)(hi-spec 3.57 in/sq)45% larger,would be to large for the master cylinder.
Look's like your stuck with them for the time being, maybe you could sell the front kit to someone looking to upgrade from thier TMC brakes.
Cheer's
Mike
Luke
1) If your S4 came with Brembo's I think you would be satisfied with your brake performance.
2)Actually they are, the increased brake torque and efficiency are achieved by the larger vented rotor.
Any increase in displacement of the brake calipers will increase the brake pedal travel. A small increase of maybe 10% you could get away with but no more than that.
Cheer's
Mike
1) If your S4 came with Brembo's I think you would be satisfied with your brake performance.
2)Actually they are, the increased brake torque and efficiency are achieved by the larger vented rotor.
Any increase in displacement of the brake calipers will increase the brake pedal travel. A small increase of maybe 10% you could get away with but no more than that.
Cheer's
Mike
karmavore said:
Interesting...
two questions:
1) My S4 DIDN'T come with the Brembo brakes, but that shouldn't make a difference, I'm sure.
2) How do all the other rear brake upgrade kits work? Certinly those calipers aren't smaller than the Hi-Spec ones, are they?
Luke.
HI Luke,
If you want to get real serious brake performance you may consider upgrading to to the latest AP-setup. This is very easy doable, also on your S4 (non Brembo). Its just bolt on work.
You will need the komplete AP-front conversion kit plus new hubs (=Euro 2890,-) and the rear conversion kit plus two rear calipers (=Euro 2590,-)
We have done this conversion a few times and it works marvellous. Compared to the TMC/Bendix setup its like bright sunshine vs. darkness ;o)
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
If you want to get real serious brake performance you may consider upgrading to to the latest AP-setup. This is very easy doable, also on your S4 (non Brembo). Its just bolt on work.
You will need the komplete AP-front conversion kit plus new hubs (=Euro 2890,-) and the rear conversion kit plus two rear calipers (=Euro 2590,-)
We have done this conversion a few times and it works marvellous. Compared to the TMC/Bendix setup its like bright sunshine vs. darkness ;o)
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
If you could move the HiSpec caliper to the rears, what where you going to do for a handbrake????
I've found the HiSpec stuff to be a big improvement over the standard pre-brembo brakes. The pedal feel is still a bit like a 'block of wood', but the stopping power and fade is so much better. Just need to be able to push hard on the pedal (not for the weak!). Also the kit took quite a while to bed in. So if you've not put plenty of miles on them, they will get much better.
PNM are currently working on a 6-pot HiSpec kit for the fronts and are doing a kit for the rears, which includes larger vented discs.
Esprit S4 only came with Brembo's from late 1993.
kato
Lotus Esprit World
I've found the HiSpec stuff to be a big improvement over the standard pre-brembo brakes. The pedal feel is still a bit like a 'block of wood', but the stopping power and fade is so much better. Just need to be able to push hard on the pedal (not for the weak!). Also the kit took quite a while to bed in. So if you've not put plenty of miles on them, they will get much better.
PNM are currently working on a 6-pot HiSpec kit for the fronts and are doing a kit for the rears, which includes larger vented discs.
Esprit S4 only came with Brembo's from late 1993.
kato
Lotus Esprit World
Brembos must have come in after late 93 cos my car is a 94 and had the (CRAP) TMC stuff. Either that or they had a spare set lying around that they forgot about.
Now I have the AP stuff, a small kit (295mm discs, i believe) but with Ferodo -disc eater- DS3000 pads it stops like never before. Lots more confidence in her now.
Dom
:-)
Now I have the AP stuff, a small kit (295mm discs, i believe) but with Ferodo -disc eater- DS3000 pads it stops like never before. Lots more confidence in her now.
Dom
:-)
Hi Luke. Iam surprised you are unhappy with your PNM brake kit. I had it on my last car and was very impressed. I would put your lack of faith into this brake upgrade to the brake servo system. Sure the brake pedal didn't feel any better but that's not down to the PNM kit. Even if you put AP's on it the brake pedal feel will always remain the same.
I don't like to see fellow Esprit owners unhappy with a product especially if I can do something about it.
I spoke to Pete at PNM today on your behalf and express your concerns. He said that to help you out and if you are unhappy with the Hi-Spec kit then he is getting some Brembo calipers in next week off a V8 both front and rears. You can have first shout on either ones. He's buying a crashed V8 to build his race car and the first thing that's coming off is the Brembos. Also PNM have developed a rear kit using the standard Brembo caliper which I have to say is puny. The up side is that the discs are HUGE. I was the first to get this fitted on my S4s. I now have 323mm on the fronts and 321mm on the rears. I think he can develop a 300mm for users of the Hi-Spec to make the balancing better.
If you have a look on www.lotusespritworld.com news pages or www.pnmengineering.com
If you decide to go for the Brmebos then I have to stress out that your brake pedal won't feel any better.
PNM may look into a brake servo upgrade in the future and I explained to him today that even my S4s feels a bit 'wooden' in comparrision to my daily modern car.
i hope this helps you out and if you have any further questions or concerns then please e-mail me or Pete anytime.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
I don't like to see fellow Esprit owners unhappy with a product especially if I can do something about it.
I spoke to Pete at PNM today on your behalf and express your concerns. He said that to help you out and if you are unhappy with the Hi-Spec kit then he is getting some Brembo calipers in next week off a V8 both front and rears. You can have first shout on either ones. He's buying a crashed V8 to build his race car and the first thing that's coming off is the Brembos. Also PNM have developed a rear kit using the standard Brembo caliper which I have to say is puny. The up side is that the discs are HUGE. I was the first to get this fitted on my S4s. I now have 323mm on the fronts and 321mm on the rears. I think he can develop a 300mm for users of the Hi-Spec to make the balancing better.
If you have a look on www.lotusespritworld.com news pages or www.pnmengineering.com
If you decide to go for the Brmebos then I have to stress out that your brake pedal won't feel any better.
PNM may look into a brake servo upgrade in the future and I explained to him today that even my S4s feels a bit 'wooden' in comparrision to my daily modern car.
i hope this helps you out and if you have any further questions or concerns then please e-mail me or Pete anytime.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
Luke,
Dave's right, your S4 will always have a hard pedal (unassisted brick) feel to it no matter what brake kit that you are running.
I myself prefer it compared to the newer Brembo cars, having driven both I feel the Delco brake booster allows better modulation over the newer unit.
Although I'd have to say that I didn't start liking the system until I installed some large 327mm front and 323mm rear rotors. Pedal effort is alot less, I can insight the ABS at will at low speeds now, something I could never do before with the stock TMC brakes or the Hi-spec kit.
Marcus's suggestion is a good one if you have a spare $7000 USD burning a hole in your pocket. I went my own route and engineered brackets and rotor hats myself married with Willwood components. The cost for all four corners of the car was in the nieghborhood of $2800, a far cry from 7g's:-)
Here are a couple of pics..
>> Edited by mikelr on Friday 3rd December 20:49
Dave's right, your S4 will always have a hard pedal (unassisted brick) feel to it no matter what brake kit that you are running.
I myself prefer it compared to the newer Brembo cars, having driven both I feel the Delco brake booster allows better modulation over the newer unit.
Although I'd have to say that I didn't start liking the system until I installed some large 327mm front and 323mm rear rotors. Pedal effort is alot less, I can insight the ABS at will at low speeds now, something I could never do before with the stock TMC brakes or the Hi-spec kit.
Marcus's suggestion is a good one if you have a spare $7000 USD burning a hole in your pocket. I went my own route and engineered brackets and rotor hats myself married with Willwood components. The cost for all four corners of the car was in the nieghborhood of $2800, a far cry from 7g's:-)
Here are a couple of pics..
>> Edited by mikelr on Friday 3rd December 20:49
Wow... thanks for the response.
I'm not tracking my car (...yet?) but even on short spirited runs up in the hills after a very short time the brakes begin fade, smoke, and feel real spongy.
I recently replaced the brake bomb which helped a lot, so maybe I need better fluid. Maybe the pads aren't seeded properly... Maybe...
Luke.
I'm not tracking my car (...yet?) but even on short spirited runs up in the hills after a very short time the brakes begin fade, smoke, and feel real spongy.
I recently replaced the brake bomb which helped a lot, so maybe I need better fluid. Maybe the pads aren't seeded properly... Maybe...
Luke.
Paula&Marcus said:
HI Luke,
You will need the komplete AP-front conversion kit plus new hubs (=Euro 2890,-) and the rear conversion kit plus two rear calipers (=Euro 2590,-)
Way, way, way, way, WAY, more than I want to spend. I'd like to leverage the money I've spent on the PNM Kit, but that doesn't sound possible.
Luke.
superdave said:
I don't like to see fellow Esprit owners unhappy with a product especially if I can do something about it.
I spoke to Pete at PNM today on your behalf and express your concerns.
Oh no... Thanks Dave, but please express to PNM that I'm not totally ready to blame the calipers. The responses have made me think that maybe soemthing else is at work.
Also, can you please tell me exactly what you are doing on your S4?
Thanks man,
Luke.
Hi Luke,
On the fronts I still have retained my Brembo front calipers. I now have 323mm slotted discs with recessed and painted centres c/w allen bolts to look like a bell and rotor. This includes and spacer and longer bolts.
The rears are 321mm with a new bracket spaced out more.
Here's a link to my pictures http://community.webshots.com/album/62855729lXBGHq
>> Edited by superdave on Saturday 4th December 10:32
On the fronts I still have retained my Brembo front calipers. I now have 323mm slotted discs with recessed and painted centres c/w allen bolts to look like a bell and rotor. This includes and spacer and longer bolts.
The rears are 321mm with a new bracket spaced out more.
Here's a link to my pictures http://community.webshots.com/album/62855729lXBGHq
>> Edited by superdave on Saturday 4th December 10:32
Hi Luke, I bought the same kit as yours on my last Esprit which was a 1990 turbo in Norfolk Mustard. I sold that car and now have an S4s which I have owned for the last 3 months. As it had every upgrade there is possible, the only thing I could improve is the brakes so I started a new project with PNM and these are the results.
The Hi-Spec caliper you see is a monster six. It is a mock-up because my car wasn't availbile at the time. Those calipers are actually for Alan Croft (white 89 turbo). He's also just bought the rear upgrade kit and calipers from PNM.
I've only put about 200 miles on mine since the upgrade and most of that way motorway, so no real braking involved. I've just taken my car for a spin in the past hour and the brakes are getting better by the day.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
The Hi-Spec caliper you see is a monster six. It is a mock-up because my car wasn't availbile at the time. Those calipers are actually for Alan Croft (white 89 turbo). He's also just bought the rear upgrade kit and calipers from PNM.
I've only put about 200 miles on mine since the upgrade and most of that way motorway, so no real braking involved. I've just taken my car for a spin in the past hour and the brakes are getting better by the day.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
Hi Spec rear kit on hold at the mo because of problems getting hold of rear calipers with a handbrake mechanism. This is why they have developed a kit using existing Brmebo calipers.
Not sure of any released date either.
Hi-Spec did say that they were having the rear caliper patented but we now think this is a delay tatic. Hopefully we are wrong and a solution is only around the corner.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
Not sure of any released date either.
Hi-Spec did say that they were having the rear caliper patented but we now think this is a delay tatic. Hopefully we are wrong and a solution is only around the corner.
Cheers,
Dave Walters
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