Esprit Chips on Ebay
Discussion
Hi All,
Maybe some of you also noticed the auctions on Ebay. The sellers Ebay name is "espritchips". I even know him, he used to be a really nice guy, also used to have an Esprit (GT3), but in last months he some kind of disappeard from the scene. Apparently he now decided to sell clones/copies from Chips he legally purchased from me in the past.
Actally it looks like its getting more and more worse with cones/copies/fake-chips on Ebay. They are popping up like mushrooms out of every corner.
Why I post this topic to this forum is that I want you to comprehend that this doing is not good for us all. The few people who really do the work in getting the code altered and doing test and all that may get frustrated and will not keep up their efforts. The result would be a standstill in Esprit chips evolution.
What is your thought on this topic ?
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
Maybe some of you also noticed the auctions on Ebay. The sellers Ebay name is "espritchips". I even know him, he used to be a really nice guy, also used to have an Esprit (GT3), but in last months he some kind of disappeard from the scene. Apparently he now decided to sell clones/copies from Chips he legally purchased from me in the past.
Actally it looks like its getting more and more worse with cones/copies/fake-chips on Ebay. They are popping up like mushrooms out of every corner.
Why I post this topic to this forum is that I want you to comprehend that this doing is not good for us all. The few people who really do the work in getting the code altered and doing test and all that may get frustrated and will not keep up their efforts. The result would be a standstill in Esprit chips evolution.
What is your thought on this topic ?
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
Hi Skerd,
Why should one have trouble with a cloned chip ?Assuming that the original one he cloned it from is a good one, of course ;o)
Ok, he has no support after the purchase and he will not get future upgrades (newer versions) but the chip itself actually is the same.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
Why should one have trouble with a cloned chip ?Assuming that the original one he cloned it from is a good one, of course ;o)
Ok, he has no support after the purchase and he will not get future upgrades (newer versions) but the chip itself actually is the same.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
Hi Nick,
You´re absolutely right. It´s illegal, but unfortunately you cannot do much against it. I´m no friend of law-suits and I would never go that far. The only thing you can do is report it to Ebay and hope that they will remove the ads or just appeal to the seller to stop it.
Marcus
You´re absolutely right. It´s illegal, but unfortunately you cannot do much against it. I´m no friend of law-suits and I would never go that far. The only thing you can do is report it to Ebay and hope that they will remove the ads or just appeal to the seller to stop it.
Marcus
Hey Marcus,
Yeah, warnings on LEW, EFF, etc. would help, along with complaints to eBay. I, for one, want you to stay in business as some day I want one of your 15's. Having written quite a bit of code over the years, I certainly feel for the theft of your intellectual property. Unfortunately there are a lot of jerks in the world.
Dr.Hess
Yeah, warnings on LEW, EFF, etc. would help, along with complaints to eBay. I, for one, want you to stay in business as some day I want one of your 15's. Having written quite a bit of code over the years, I certainly feel for the theft of your intellectual property. Unfortunately there are a lot of jerks in the world.
Dr.Hess
In the U.S., the Business Software Alliance handles policing of software piracy for their clients. You could consider joining the BSA. www.bsa.org
They are fairly aggressive and have law firms on retainer to handle these issues.
Please feel free to e-mail me if you have other questions.
They are fairly aggressive and have law firms on retainer to handle these issues.
Please feel free to e-mail me if you have other questions.
Luke,
you are absolutely right.
The basic code is from Lotus.All the upgrade chips/codes are altered original codes with different parameters, maps and constants.
Like you said its difficult with all these 0s an 1s ...
Of course you can easily detect a clone/copy because these are absolutely identical ... even the signature (which is embedded in the code) gets copied ;o)
If somebody is doing an altered code by himself he will definitely end up with something different, not with a plain 1:1 copy.
I know that many people who also do this kind of work implement significant identicifactions into the code, like "useless routines" or "own birthday-codes" or other "signatures" that have nothing to do with the working-code itself. If these identifications also show up in a clone you may be proof that its a copy.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
you are absolutely right.
The basic code is from Lotus.All the upgrade chips/codes are altered original codes with different parameters, maps and constants.
Like you said its difficult with all these 0s an 1s ...
Of course you can easily detect a clone/copy because these are absolutely identical ... even the signature (which is embedded in the code) gets copied ;o)
If somebody is doing an altered code by himself he will definitely end up with something different, not with a plain 1:1 copy.
I know that many people who also do this kind of work implement significant identicifactions into the code, like "useless routines" or "own birthday-codes" or other "signatures" that have nothing to do with the working-code itself. If these identifications also show up in a clone you may be proof that its a copy.
Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
I am not a copyright lawyer, but...
What should be copyrighted for these chips is the mods done. What makes the chip different from the factory chip. Fuel maps, etc. I really don't know what you mod besides the maps, but whatever is modded should be copyrighted. The procedure for copyrighting computer code, last I looked at such things about 18 years ago and near as I can recall, was to print out the first and last page of your code and submit that to the copyright office. You don't have any screens to copyright. Your code should contain a copyright statement in it, and the chip should be labeled as well. Simply properly labeling the code/chip will provide you with copyright protection without filing the paperwork for a period of several years.
Dummy routines are a good way of determining when someone has stolen your code, and the map makers in the US do this all the time. They will include streets in their maps that don't exist, then if someone just steals their map and has the fake street in it, proof of theft. Every once in a while you run across one of their fake streets when you are trying to get somewhere, and that is the reason.
Dr.Hess
Professional Physician, Programmer, Database guy, Analyst, Consultant, not a lawyer.
Amateur Mechanic, Welder, Machinist, not a lawyer.
I have a patent (in Europe, actually) but I am kinda embarrased about it in these circles. You could find it, but just realize I was hungry and society's to blame for not feeding young doctors.
What should be copyrighted for these chips is the mods done. What makes the chip different from the factory chip. Fuel maps, etc. I really don't know what you mod besides the maps, but whatever is modded should be copyrighted. The procedure for copyrighting computer code, last I looked at such things about 18 years ago and near as I can recall, was to print out the first and last page of your code and submit that to the copyright office. You don't have any screens to copyright. Your code should contain a copyright statement in it, and the chip should be labeled as well. Simply properly labeling the code/chip will provide you with copyright protection without filing the paperwork for a period of several years.
Dummy routines are a good way of determining when someone has stolen your code, and the map makers in the US do this all the time. They will include streets in their maps that don't exist, then if someone just steals their map and has the fake street in it, proof of theft. Every once in a while you run across one of their fake streets when you are trying to get somewhere, and that is the reason.
Dr.Hess
Professional Physician, Programmer, Database guy, Analyst, Consultant, not a lawyer.
Amateur Mechanic, Welder, Machinist, not a lawyer.
I have a patent (in Europe, actually) but I am kinda embarrased about it in these circles. You could find it, but just realize I was hungry and society's to blame for not feeding young doctors.
Since there seems to be some interest in this otherwise boring subject matter here's some info on U.S. Copyright law. I guess I should add that this is informational only and does not create an attorney/client relationship with anyone reading this info.
Copyright notice is no longer required to secure ownership of the copyright. By international treaty, copyright ownership vests upon creation of the work.
In the U.S., a registration is required to initiate an infringement action. Also, you can't recover statutory damages for infringements occuring prior to the registration.
The notice is helpful as the guilty party can't claim to be an innocent infringer. However, if the notice is missing you can still obtain an injunction. Also, helps those parties who want a license.
The Copyright Act also includes a section on semiconductor chips. Unfortunately, I have no experience with that section of the code.
I found the following on: http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/bytopic/intprop/circ1.html
If the work is an unpublished or published computer program, the deposit requirement is one visually perceptible copy in source code of the FIRST AND LAST 25 PAGES of the program. For a program of fewer than 50 pages, the deposit is a copy of the entire program. (For more information on computer program registration, including deposits for revised programs and provisions for trade secrets, request Circular 61.)
If you made it this far, wow.
Copyright notice is no longer required to secure ownership of the copyright. By international treaty, copyright ownership vests upon creation of the work.
In the U.S., a registration is required to initiate an infringement action. Also, you can't recover statutory damages for infringements occuring prior to the registration.
The notice is helpful as the guilty party can't claim to be an innocent infringer. However, if the notice is missing you can still obtain an injunction. Also, helps those parties who want a license.
The Copyright Act also includes a section on semiconductor chips. Unfortunately, I have no experience with that section of the code.
I found the following on: http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/bytopic/intprop/circ1.html
If the work is an unpublished or published computer program, the deposit requirement is one visually perceptible copy in source code of the FIRST AND LAST 25 PAGES of the program. For a program of fewer than 50 pages, the deposit is a copy of the entire program. (For more information on computer program registration, including deposits for revised programs and provisions for trade secrets, request Circular 61.)
If you made it this far, wow.
Well, when you find it, you need to understand that I was workin' for U$5/hour making life and death decisions at 3AM without any sleep for the past 3 days, and this patent lawyer friend of a friend came my way and offered to pay me $20/hr to review his patent application. He needed someone with radio, radar, computer, and commo expertise and I happend to have all that. So, I went through it, crossing out stuff, saying "this won't work, this is illegal, they have things that prevent this, try this instead," etc. and he paid me and put my name on it too. Thus, my patent. Bragging rights, mostly. It was his idea and I signed my rights to him for a dollar. Not sure if he has done anything with it, but he has used it as a springboard for a couple of other patents, which is how the game is played as he explained it to me.
Dr.Hess
Dr.Hess
Marcus,
On Ebay there's an infringement section. You download the form, fill it out and fax it to them, saying you want to disallow any sales of your chips on Ebay. Then, whenever you find an infringement, just contact them via email (also isa good to fax them so they have a hard copy)... and they'll remove the sale from their site. This has happened to me a couple times on our synthesizer sound program products and Ebay has removed the sale immediately. Good Luck!
Mark (91SE) Wiens
On Ebay there's an infringement section. You download the form, fill it out and fax it to them, saying you want to disallow any sales of your chips on Ebay. Then, whenever you find an infringement, just contact them via email (also isa good to fax them so they have a hard copy)... and they'll remove the sale from their site. This has happened to me a couple times on our synthesizer sound program products and Ebay has removed the sale immediately. Good Luck!
Mark (91SE) Wiens
Marcus,
your best bet would be to put an advert up youself on ebay - hopefully people will look at yours an realise the difference.
I've told the story many times about how I thought I had a problem with a chip I'd bought from Marcus - as it turns out the chip was fine - it was my crappy installation that was at fault - Marcus sent me another one to a CARAVAN site where I was on holiday for next day delivery - just to get me out of the sh
it.
I can safely say, people like Marcus are a pleasure to deal with, and we all need to support people like this as good tradesmen in the Esprit field will become less and less now the mark has ceased production and are harder to find.
I bet the guy on ebay wouldnt sent you a replacement, even though he can churn them out for next to nothing.
JC
Ex Esprit owner.
your best bet would be to put an advert up youself on ebay - hopefully people will look at yours an realise the difference.
I've told the story many times about how I thought I had a problem with a chip I'd bought from Marcus - as it turns out the chip was fine - it was my crappy installation that was at fault - Marcus sent me another one to a CARAVAN site where I was on holiday for next day delivery - just to get me out of the sh
it. I can safely say, people like Marcus are a pleasure to deal with, and we all need to support people like this as good tradesmen in the Esprit field will become less and less now the mark has ceased production and are harder to find.
I bet the guy on ebay wouldnt sent you a replacement, even though he can churn them out for next to nothing.
JC
Ex Esprit owner.
Hi John,
Many thanks for the flowers !!!
I just try to do my very best ...
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
>> Edited by Paula&Marcus on Thursday 18th November 16:17
Many thanks for the flowers !!!
I just try to do my very best ...
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)
>> Edited by Paula&Marcus on Thursday 18th November 16:17
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