owning and esprit.

owning and esprit.

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Discussion

LDA

Original Poster:

12 posts

238 months

Tuesday 9th November 2004
quotequote all
hey all,

i'm thinking of buying an esprit but i'd like to know a bit more about them before i leap in.

the two models i was thinking of were the s4s and the v8gt.
i'd like to know how you (the owners) think they cope as cars.

1/are they ok as daily drivers?
2/are there any common faults i should get sorted if i
get one or look out for before buying?
i think i heard that the head gaskets are prone to going on the turbo's and the gearbox on the v8.
3/how well do they handle on smaller roads? like the twisty stuff my current nissan pulsar enjoys.
4/how do the 2 models stack up to each other? is the v8 really as good as it sounds or is the s4s close enough to be worth saving the extra few grand and getting the 4 pot instead?

i'd like to use the car for track days as well as just driving around the local a and b roads. are they up to the job in the middle of winter? any common leaks?

ok, sorry for all the questions

thanks in advance for your help

Luke.

fflyingdog

621 posts

244 months

Tuesday 9th November 2004
quotequote all
Try looking on www.lotusespritworld.com it will answer most of your questions in greater detail and you will get a variety of views from current owners on both the V8 and S4s question.........of course the S4s is a much better model,i may be slightly biased mind you.
Nick S4s 1995

paul c

310 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th November 2004
quotequote all
I agree
Lotus Esprit World is a good place to start. There is loads there so read it all, and don't forget to look at the owners pages for real experience.

I think the SE is the one to go for, as all the later Chargecooled cars are just SE's with bodykits .
Mind you, i too may be bias...

All the best with your search.

Paul C
Turbo SE




>> Edited by paul c on Tuesday 9th November 19:59

adrianmugridge

10,291 posts

289 months

Tuesday 9th November 2004
quotequote all
Nah, a V8 is the dogs bits, but I'm also biased !!!

Adrian
86 N/A -> 89 Turbo -> 97 GT3 -> 99 Sport 350
www.adrianmugridge.co.uk

Del-Esprit

57 posts

253 months

Tuesday 9th November 2004
quotequote all
Ok and now for a totally unbiased view of the S4s,
So apart from the Esprit being the best car in the whole world and the S4s the best model to answer some of your questions.

1: Daily Drive.
Both the S4s and V8 can be used as a daily driver but be prepared for regular servicing to keep it reliable. This will obviously increase your average cost per mile driven. On the road they are nice and easy to drive, the extra low torque of the V8 being handy around town, not that the S4s lacks torque.
I know there are some owners who have an Esprit as their only car and never have any problems if treated kindly and regularly maintained. Treat her rough and don't keep up the maintenance and expect problems.

2: Common Faults.
There are many possile areas that a car can have faults but if maintained regualrly then they will have been caught early and fixed. As others have said check LEW for reviews. As for head gaskets and gearboxes, there are admitedly a few weaknesses, but should only appear in a car that has been abused or badly maintained. A few cars have issues but there is always a few rogue cars in any marque. Look for maintenance history and some basic recall issues. Liner issues on V8, regular cambelt change on S4s, cracked exhaust manifolds on S4s.

3: twisty roads.
How do they handle, have you been in an Esprit ?
The twisties are where the Esprit is in its element. Forget 1/4 mile and top speed get on some small twisty roads and let the suspension do its thing. For a GT style car it is the best handling I have driven.

4: How do they stack up ?
Well that is a subjective view. Each has their pros and cons. The S4s was the last of the 4 pots and hence all the known issues fixed making it the best and most reliable of the 4 pots IMHO. The V8 had a few issues early on but solved later. The extra torque of the V8 is handy in normal driving situations but when going full chat there is little between them, the S4s seeming to have a marginally better balance.
The 4 pots are easier to work on if you intend to do any DIY repairs or alterations. More space around the engine and basic mechanical engineering.

Hope some of that helps.
Find a good Esprit and don't go imediately for the first one you see no matter how much you fall in love with it. I did that, don't regret to much but armed with what I now know I should have made a better choice.

Del
95 S4s


Autocross7

524 posts

255 months

Wednesday 10th November 2004
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All good points above... especially the note regarding the need to avoid the "gotta have it gremlins".

This to remeber (Playing the devils side here - I love my Esprit)...

1) It is NOT Japanese. You will have to maintain it.
2)Remember, it is an exotic car, but as they go - it is reliable and not difficult to work on if you can turn a wrench.
3)British electrical work, Nuff, said...problem can usually be sorted.
4)The S4 seems to be the star of the lot... the V8 obviously has a bit more grunt... but do not discount the earlier cars. If you find a good one, don't pass because it is not a V8. You can always trade up later if you decide you like it (You WILL Like it!). For the disadvantages of the Early cars, the later ons will have their quirks as well - I'm sure from reading post here on this site.
5)There is a list of things to look for or look out for that may not be problems: gas smell, weak clutch feel, or sloppy shifting would be examples. All of these things can be found as common issues on car being sold - by people that did not research the cars before they bought sometimes. These issues are usually very easy to correct if you know what to look for (ie: cracked fuel balance pipe, "red hose" clutch hydrolic line, and bad bushings)...

Anyway, the list can go on... They are really fun cars and will drive a Ferrari off the track on a good day for less money (way less on up keep)...

Drive topless!!!
Cameron

cnh1990

3,035 posts

268 months

Wednesday 10th November 2004
quotequote all
The cars are in it's element in the high side of 2nd gear turns and my favorite the 3rd gear turns. A lot of people if they have the nerve like the 4 gear sweepers for the high speed stuff.

The Esprit has got to be one of the best performance value for the money spent as to the purchase price.

If you are not a DIY person I would set aside 1K USD for every 15K miles as a guide for the 4 cyl. Budget unknown to me for the V8 costs.

The manifold does seem to be a trouble spot for the 4 cyl cars, especially as the usual crack points are really hard to see unless the car is on a lift and even if it is cracked it is possible that you will not get an audible warning until it is in its later stages. Also the exhaust studs and nuts may fall off from time to time.

While the S4s lacks some of the HP/torque of the V8 it is a little lighter and I feel might be a little more nimbler. If the S4s is driven correctly and smoothly it should be able to keep up or be faster than a V8 in the turns. If you biff the turn and lose engine speed the V8 will more than likely get you as it can generate a higher exit speed. Some novice V8 owners will rely on this and enter the turn loose or not on an ideal or as tight of a line as the should have been on. If the are entering the turn loose or the entry speed is too fast V8's can afford to brake well past the ideal point and still have the torque to pull off the turn by using the torque for high acceleration speed out of the turn and beyond when the road straightens up to keep up while the 4 cyl drivers must keep on top of things.

But I must add that I have seen some very good V8 drivers and they are very quick while other not so good drivers use the point and shoot method and rely more on the machine as they try and progress to be better drivers.

I do have the opinion that when the 4 cyl cars play with the V8's, if the 4 cyl drivers want to keep up with the V8's (be right on their rear or not hold them up), the 4 cyl cars almost forces the driver to become better in all aspects driving. They have to avoid being labeled a weenie driver who is unable to play with the big boys.

For the life of me, I can't decide myself on which I prefer. I really like the sound the the V8 engine makes over the 4 cyl , not that the 4 cyl sound is that bad. I remember when Gordonnie's V8 was behind me I thought to myself it would be nice if my car sounded like that. The 4 cyl cars are really easy to work on. I suppose it will all come down to what is a good deal that is there when the time comes.

I have noticed one thing, as the 4 cyl cars age the rubber bits/bushings seems to be getting very brittle and comming apart (it is all about age). Not a real cause for immediate concern but what some of these parts seal and protect become at risk. On my old car the rubber has gotten/starting to get brittle and while things like the steering rack and ball joints are still good at some point the rubber bits will fall apart and a good chance the ingress of moisture will accelrate degradation these parts. In a Lotus many times the secondary failure will cost you more than the original failure. Like who cares if the just the T belt ($50)snapped if it were all that it was, only thing is when that happens it takes out the top portion of the engine.

I have almost ruled out an ealry Diablo as the up keep costs may be too much. A lot of engine out service. As in the V8's I really like the sound of the engine. I don't think there is anything quite like the sound of 12 cyl not even a V8.

Sorry for my ramblings as I must be suffering from Esprit denial and over compensating.
Calvin

rob.e

2,861 posts

283 months

Wednesday 10th November 2004
quotequote all
I've run 4 cylinder and v8 cars as daily drivers. Pros and cons on both sides. My GT3 was prob cheaper to run, but either car will be more to run than a nissan as daily wheels i'm guessing..

Calvin - you know you don't really want to leave the esprit community.. oh, and if you want to compare v8 vs s4s engine noise, look at this clip: www.pistonheads.tv/clip183 thats adams s4s with sports exhaust and my v8 with straight pipes

Rob

rob.e

2,861 posts

283 months

Wednesday 10th November 2004
quotequote all
LDA said:


i'd like to use the car for track days as well as just driving around the local a and b roads. are they up to the job in the middle of winter? any common leaks?


Any mid engined car with 350bhp, fat tyres and no traction control is going to be a bit of a handful in the snow and slippy conditions. Esprit is no exception. I've run mine thru the winter with no problems but its probably a better bet to get a 'beater' for the worst weather days..

Track days - depends how hard you're intending to drive it.. 2000MY cars and later get better AP brakes (also sport 350 has these). Earlier brembo's are good but you'll probably get some fade on hard track use.

cnh1990

3,035 posts

268 months

Wednesday 10th November 2004
quotequote all
Rob is right on with the descriptions.

At 35-40 mph with about 2" of sleet and slush is a hair raising experience. I would not recommend driving the Esprit in any type of snow and ice. I rather take a 50+mph hairpin in the dry anytime.

Get a beater for the winter and for heavy traffic days.

I have a 10 year old Escort for such uses. My wife almost got me one of those license plate frames that people drive around with that says "My other car is a Ferrari" or something like that except it would have been for the Esprit that said "My other car is a piece of crap".

rob.e

2,861 posts

283 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
cnh1990 said:
I have a 10 year old Escort for such uses.


mine's a ten year old golf..

fflyingdog

621 posts

244 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
:-) Mines a ten year old Rover 214 Sli in a rather fetching shade of Red

LDA

Original Poster:

12 posts

238 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
hi,

thank you all very much for your reply's.
i'll be off to LEW next to have a read.

a few of you hinted that the esprit might be even more expensive than my pulsar to run. this would be very expensive!! as my current car (selling to help get an esprit) is a GTIR with 411bhp.. very expensive on fuel and servicing with 8mpg and oil,box oil and diff oil changes every 3000miles.

winter use
i've also got an old alfa 33 4wd that i think i'll hang onto as a second car. its only 1.7L and its good on fuel, plus its also 4wd so good in the snow.

brake fade on hard track use? are there any upgrade kits for the brakes? or is it a diy, find the right size part and make it fit, effort?

i've only ever been in one esprit. my fartheres friend has a lovely 90's v8 and it goes like the wind. this is what sparked my love of the big lotus. sadly i've never driven one. but even though he couldnt keep up with the pulsar, i'm sure if we got onto open roads he would have eaten me on top end.

by the sound of it, the s4s with a few choice mods would keep up with the v8 no problem.
do they take well to a slight boost hike? how much presure do they run as standard?

hmm many things to think about, but i dont think that high service intervals are going to put me off having the best looking british sports car ever!
if i can get it running for less than £7000 a year then its going to be cheaper than the nissan!

thank you all again for your input. i'm going to spend all weekend looking at esprit's and after reading some of your posts, i think i have a new found love for the s4s even before i've been in one!

Luke.

unity1

271 posts

257 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
Most of the problems and points have been listed. However perhaps one of the more important ones is to get out and see a few. Go to a couple of the meets so you can judge the benchmark for a good one. If you ask nicely I'm sure many guys would be more than happy to take you for a spin to get first hand experience of the different models.

As it happens there is a large one at Stonleigh on the 21st with many of the Esprit guys turning up (myself not being one unfortunately this time). Go there or hitch a lift from a meeting point and have a good look around.

Steve
89 Turbo
www.unity1.co.uk/Lotus

LDA

Original Poster:

12 posts

238 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
oh dear, i have a drift day booked for the 21st. are there any other meets this side of christmas?

i've been doing a lot of reading around the web and there doesnt seem to be anything basicly wrong with the cars. or any fixes that are too hard to impliment.
245rear tyres could get expensive though.

hmm now there is a question i havent had an answer to yet.
when pushed hard does the car tend to over or under steer?
e.g.porsche's tend to be setup to under steer as this is easier for the driver to catch. where as TVR tend to be setup to over steer, so a little more skill is needed to drive them to their limits.

how does the esprit handle? does it tend to over or under steer?

Luke.

cnh1990

3,035 posts

268 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
Stock 4 cyl tend to understeer.

The S4s does have adjustable upper links similar to the ones I fabricated for my old SE.

So it can be adjusted out to neutral or close to it. In this fashion a hard let up or braking will cause the rear swing or power on and will track true. Use both a pedal tap and gas pedal in a turn is great.

I think the V8's are set up more this way as the back end is a little heavier.

unity1

271 posts

257 months

Thursday 11th November 2004
quotequote all
Under steer
There is not really any other large meets this year (it is the end of November) but several of us do tend to get together every so oftern but even that will be slow now.

The next and probably last thing this year is Go-Karting followed by a meal in Braintree on the Dec 5th. We have around 20 ppl going but the actual amount of Esprits is not known.

Steve
89 Turbo
www.unity1.co.uk/Lotus

LDA

Original Poster:

12 posts

238 months

Friday 12th November 2004
quotequote all
understeer hmm.

time to get out the sticky front tyres, and some rubish rear ones.
bit of weight saving on the nose and lose any downforce from the rear and it should be lots more fun

is the suspention on the esprit camber adjustable as standard?
right time for more reading. i need to know learn more tech data about these cars. plus it will save me asking so many questions of you guys.

seeing as i'm not going to be buying an esprit untill feb, mar next year. i'll have to keep an eye on your calendar of meets and attend one or two in the early part of next year. so long as newcomer non lostus drivers are welcoe of coutse.

L.

cnh1990

3,035 posts

268 months

Friday 12th November 2004
quotequote all
From what I recall The rears are adjustable on an stock S4s. My SE had custom fabricated upper links to duplicate the links of the later cars. A hot rod shop fabricated these links for 3 of us and this project was headed up by Dave Cammack who has the quickest 89 SE I have ever seen (At or beyond S4s quickness).

Jim has a set of these links on his car which would make his G car one of a few or only G car that has an rear adjustable suspension set up.

The next project Dave had on the drawing board was adjustable front suspension. Unfortunately I will not be able to benefit from this next project as you all know I no longer have my SE. But the future looks good for a car as long as the right deal comes along.

lda

Original Poster:

12 posts

238 months

Saturday 13th November 2004
quotequote all
hey all,

i cant believe how helpful all you lotus people are! on every lotus site i have visited there have been people there to help me out!

right more question.. just to be a pain :P

i have a friend who has an mr2. its not a turbo but he still suffers from overheating problems after a while of driving it hard.
he does a lot of track type use and has to give the car a rest after 10-15mins of hard use.

what are the 4 cyl turbo esprit's like under the same sort of use? do they tend to run too hot if pushed hard and are there any well trodden paths for fixing the problems if there are any?

thanks again people.

Luke.