Will not fire up! what now!!!???
Discussion
Help please before 'I' blow a fuse or something...
This morning I opened the garage, hopped in the Esprit for a drive and....
Nothing. I turned the key... nothing but some "clicking" from the ignition relays under the bonnet. The lights come on, everything electrical as far as lights, door buzzer, dash lights, horn, etc... all seem to work fine...
Just no tuen over. The Starter does not turn... This has got to be electrical but I do not have any idea as to what it could be...
Starter Solenoid?
Voltage regulator (the balck thing on the rear of the alternator)?
What?
Any thoughts will be appreciated...
The real pissy thing about this is that I drove it last night for a bit and it ran as usual... nothing out of the ordinary. I parked it... and the this morning!
Thank you...
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
This morning I opened the garage, hopped in the Esprit for a drive and....
Nothing. I turned the key... nothing but some "clicking" from the ignition relays under the bonnet. The lights come on, everything electrical as far as lights, door buzzer, dash lights, horn, etc... all seem to work fine...
Just no tuen over. The Starter does not turn... This has got to be electrical but I do not have any idea as to what it could be...
Starter Solenoid?
Voltage regulator (the balck thing on the rear of the alternator)?
What?
Any thoughts will be appreciated...
The real pissy thing about this is that I drove it last night for a bit and it ran as usual... nothing out of the ordinary. I parked it... and the this morning!
Thank you...
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Cameron,
It could be a problem with the solenoid or the starter motor itself. But start with the simple stuff first. Corrosion at the battery terminals can do that as well as corrosion where the positive battery cable attaches to the starter solenoid. Clean the cable connections. If that doesn't do it...
Take the transmission out of gear and set the brake.
When you turn the ignition switch to "Start", 12v goes to the solenoid via the white/red wire (white with a red stripe). Then the solenoid clicks, pre-engaging the starter drive first and then closing the electrical contacts that switch on the starter motor.
If the solenoid doesn't click at all, then have a helper turn the ignition key to "Start" while you use a volt meter or test light to check for 12v at the white/red wire terminal. If there's no 12v, the problem is in the feed circuit. Maybe the ignition switch itself or the connection from the +VE post. You'll just have to trace it.
If there is 12v in the white/red wire but no click, try cleaning the terminal connection. Just work the spade connector back and forth a few times to scrape through any corrosion. (The other two white/yellow wires go to the fuel injection management system… you may as well clean their connections while you're at it.)
If there's 12v present and the terminal connections are good, but the solenoid doesn't click; then the solenoid is probably faulty. Replace it.
If there's 12v present and the solenoid clicks but the starter motor doesn't run; then it could be either the solenoid or the starter motor.
There are two large threaded electrical terminals on the solenoid. The battery cable attaches to one and the other goes to the starter motor. With your helper turning the key, check for 12v at the second threaded terminal… the one that goes to the starter motor. If no 12v, the solenoid is faulty… replace it.
If there is 12v, the starter motor may be bad; however, it could still be the solenoid. The internal contacts may be burned or corroded such that the resistance is to high to pass sufficient current to drive the motor. A meter or test light may indicate 12v without the circuit being able pass the big current the motor requires.
If you short across those two threaded terminals with a metal bar or screwdriver blade, a good motor will run. However, without the solenoid engaging the starter drive, the motor will spin no-load. It could spin fast enough to damage itself, so just tap the terminals briefly. Pulse the motor. If the motor spins, when the terminals are shorted but not when the solenoid clicks, then it's the solenoid that is faulty… replace it.
Could all this be a sign that you really need that Elise?
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
It could be a problem with the solenoid or the starter motor itself. But start with the simple stuff first. Corrosion at the battery terminals can do that as well as corrosion where the positive battery cable attaches to the starter solenoid. Clean the cable connections. If that doesn't do it...
Take the transmission out of gear and set the brake.
When you turn the ignition switch to "Start", 12v goes to the solenoid via the white/red wire (white with a red stripe). Then the solenoid clicks, pre-engaging the starter drive first and then closing the electrical contacts that switch on the starter motor.
If the solenoid doesn't click at all, then have a helper turn the ignition key to "Start" while you use a volt meter or test light to check for 12v at the white/red wire terminal. If there's no 12v, the problem is in the feed circuit. Maybe the ignition switch itself or the connection from the +VE post. You'll just have to trace it.
If there is 12v in the white/red wire but no click, try cleaning the terminal connection. Just work the spade connector back and forth a few times to scrape through any corrosion. (The other two white/yellow wires go to the fuel injection management system… you may as well clean their connections while you're at it.)
If there's 12v present and the terminal connections are good, but the solenoid doesn't click; then the solenoid is probably faulty. Replace it.
If there's 12v present and the solenoid clicks but the starter motor doesn't run; then it could be either the solenoid or the starter motor.
There are two large threaded electrical terminals on the solenoid. The battery cable attaches to one and the other goes to the starter motor. With your helper turning the key, check for 12v at the second threaded terminal… the one that goes to the starter motor. If no 12v, the solenoid is faulty… replace it.
If there is 12v, the starter motor may be bad; however, it could still be the solenoid. The internal contacts may be burned or corroded such that the resistance is to high to pass sufficient current to drive the motor. A meter or test light may indicate 12v without the circuit being able pass the big current the motor requires.
If you short across those two threaded terminals with a metal bar or screwdriver blade, a good motor will run. However, without the solenoid engaging the starter drive, the motor will spin no-load. It could spin fast enough to damage itself, so just tap the terminals briefly. Pulse the motor. If the motor spins, when the terminals are shorted but not when the solenoid clicks, then it's the solenoid that is faulty… replace it.
Could all this be a sign that you really need that Elise?
Good luck,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
You have a flat battery !!!
You only need a few amps to turn the lights on, open the doors with the central looking, turn the radio on etc.
The soleniod clicking is a sure sign - there is enough umph in the battery to engage the starter soleniod, then when you try to turn the engine there is a huge drain on the battery so the soleniod drops out, so clunk. Then you have enough amps to engage the soleniod, then it drops out again and so on.
Remember it takes hundreds of amps to turn the engine. Also, car batteries can be fine one day and completely shagged the next.
Adrian
Sport 350
You only need a few amps to turn the lights on, open the doors with the central looking, turn the radio on etc.
The soleniod clicking is a sure sign - there is enough umph in the battery to engage the starter soleniod, then when you try to turn the engine there is a huge drain on the battery so the soleniod drops out, so clunk. Then you have enough amps to engage the soleniod, then it drops out again and so on.
Remember it takes hundreds of amps to turn the engine. Also, car batteries can be fine one day and completely shagged the next.
Adrian
Sport 350
Thaks Tim... I'll dig out the meter (as I figured I'd need it at some point)...
By yhe way... I really had a great time with you and Dave in MN! thanks for the tour and the ride! My biggest problem with these type of problems is my initial frustration... the weather here is FINNNNNALLLLY! perfect driving weather!!
... as far as the battery goes, it is not quite a year old and reads 12v over the terninal as well as the meter in the car... but I'm not going to rule it out just yet.
Drive topless!!!
Cameorn
By yhe way... I really had a great time with you and Dave in MN! thanks for the tour and the ride! My biggest problem with these type of problems is my initial frustration... the weather here is FINNNNNALLLLY! perfect driving weather!!
... as far as the battery goes, it is not quite a year old and reads 12v over the terninal as well as the meter in the car... but I'm not going to rule it out just yet.
Drive topless!!!
Cameorn
Autocross7 said:
... as far as the battery goes, it is not quite a year old and reads 12v over the terninal as well as the meter in the car... but I'm not going to rule it out just yet.
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
12v is a nominal rating for a lead-acid battery; but if it's really reading 12v, then it's low. Fully charged it should read around 13.2v. With the engine running and the alternator working properly, the voltage should read somewhere in the 14.5 - 15 range.
Be careful what you ask for... you don't want to see me driving topless.
;-)
Later,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North
Good point at about the battery... I stand corrected...
I should have said it was reading at least 12v at the battery (upon the re-check it is a bit higher w/ the car off).
I did have a look at the solenoid and it had a bit of corrosion on it, so I pulled it off. After a closer look, the lead at the yellow/white wires was very loose and in fact popped off when I pulled the wire.
As there is no way to pull the back off this thing (even though it looks as if you could)... I'll be replacing it. Would anyone happen to know if this this will cross ref. with anything else? I'm going to start looking but if you know...
I doubt seriously that this is my only electrical issue... but I'll keep the thread posted.
Drive topless!!!
Cameron.
(PS Tim... once you have driven in the New Orleans Mardi Gras... topless is no longer scary... bottomless... that might not be good for the seats! hahaha)
Chris... my e-mail bounces accts. on Pistonheads... but feel free to shoot ma a mail as I have lost yours as well... Autocross7@aol.com
>> Edited by Autocross7 on Sunday 7th November 02:36
I should have said it was reading at least 12v at the battery (upon the re-check it is a bit higher w/ the car off).
I did have a look at the solenoid and it had a bit of corrosion on it, so I pulled it off. After a closer look, the lead at the yellow/white wires was very loose and in fact popped off when I pulled the wire.
As there is no way to pull the back off this thing (even though it looks as if you could)... I'll be replacing it. Would anyone happen to know if this this will cross ref. with anything else? I'm going to start looking but if you know...
I doubt seriously that this is my only electrical issue... but I'll keep the thread posted.
Drive topless!!!
Cameron.
(PS Tim... once you have driven in the New Orleans Mardi Gras... topless is no longer scary... bottomless... that might not be good for the seats! hahaha)
Chris... my e-mail bounces accts. on Pistonheads... but feel free to shoot ma a mail as I have lost yours as well... Autocross7@aol.com
>> Edited by Autocross7 on Sunday 7th November 02:36
Well, after taking another (well rested) look at the soenoid, I did discover how to get the thing apart. i correct the prev. noted loose conector and put it back on the car as the terminal voltage was as described above to be okay... I took the time to pull all the ground points and clean them up as well...
However, I discovered that the issue is getting caused by my ignition switch! Seems if I jiggle it or just turn the key a few times... no problem starting. I just have to keep fiddling till it catches. Sometimes it goes right off like new... it will need to be replaced.
Thank you all for the help!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
However, I discovered that the issue is getting caused by my ignition switch! Seems if I jiggle it or just turn the key a few times... no problem starting. I just have to keep fiddling till it catches. Sometimes it goes right off like new... it will need to be replaced.
Thank you all for the help!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
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